Obama and his "Out of Touch" Remarks

[HemlockGrey]

Mind you, the preacher scandal was incredibly lame. His preacher said something, not him or even anyone in his campaign. And what his preacher said was no more scandalous than what Pat Robertson or Jerry Falwell have said, both of whom blamed American sin for 9/11. And yet those two fuckers are John McCain stalwarts, with nary a whiff of scandal in sight.

Falwell hasn't been doing much stalwarting lately, I'd imagine.

I actually thought the preacher scandal was the only one with any sort of authentic traction. After all, this is a man Obama has chosen to closely associate himself with for over a decade and occupies the position of the man who brought him to Christ. Now obviously Obama is not going to pursue policies based on this guy's recommendation, nor does Wright occupy a position of prominence anywhere close to the major evangelicals. And if he had been a fat white guy there would have been no story. But Wright is like Obama's Billy Graham. That sort of association does indeed give people some justification to tar you with the same brush, and the last thing the country needs is another vitriolic holy man in a position of influence. I'm still voting Obama, but that incident does represent one of the misgivings I have about the man.

[Darth Wong]

Jesus would probably say "God damn America" too. Anybody who has actually read the Gospels and took them seriously would be hard-pressed to come to any other conclusion.

[Surlethe]

Jesus would probably say "God damn America" too. Anybody who has actually read the Gospels and took them seriously would be hard-pressed to come to any other conclusion.

Hell, I was talking with some people the other week, and they mentioned how Jesus slammed hypocrites in the New Testament -- "you brood of vipers", "whitewashed sepulchres", etc. And then there was the time he got so pissed off at the moneylenders in the temple that he went, made a whip, came back, and beat them off with it. Jesus would almost certainly have said something like "God damn America".

[Glocksman]

Looks like Obama's finally had enough of Hillary's bullshit and is throwing it back a her.

YouTube Video

"She's running around talking about how this is an insult to sportsmen, how she values the Second Amendment, she's talking like she's Annie Oakley! Hillary Clinton's out there like she's on the duck blind every Sunday, she's packin' a six shooter! C'mon! She knows better. That's some politics being played by Hillary Clinton. I want to see that picture of her out there in the duck blinds."

Damn. He could hardly keep a straight face.

[D.Turtle]

Most of his apology was focused on the choosing a better choice of words than "bitter." Well he did try to explain the comments of people clinging to Religion, Anti-Immigrant sentiment, and guns, but I'm really not sure that will be enough.

He didn't apologize for saying what he did - he apologized for using words that could be twisted. In other words - he is accusing McCain and Clinton of twisting his words. In fact, in this video, he addresses this point quite extensively, using this this matter to attack Clinton quite severely for allying with McCain. (He even uses "Shame on you!")

But aside from that, I don't think this of course, but there is a theme arising here. Obama says something controversial, he delivers and eloquent speech explaining himself, then goes on. Now if this happens one time it, people would probably think he is right. But when this happens repeatedly it starts to add up. It's a logical fallacy but this is how people think. As I said, I don't think like this, but I am trying to put myself in other people's minds.

Ah, the "I of course don't think this, I just think that other people will think this" defense ...

You do realize that the media is always out looking for things to blow out of proportions or take out of context in order to create a "scandal." This "scandal" shows once again, that Obama is extremely good at defending himself and FIGHTING BACK when these "scandals" arise. He takes the things he is accused of and tosses them right back at those accusing him (McCain and Clinton).

As I said, if this flap dies down like the Wright thing did, then there would be no problem.

Well, then I guess you can already say that there will be no problem, as the attack isn't sticking.

But suppose this issue causes the upcoming primaries to swing more to Clinton then they otherwise would've, then Democratic leaders will take notice. And in this case Delegate counts would not matter as much as the fight against McCain in the general election. The Democrats can afford to offend the rural voters, regardless of whether the comments are in fact correct.

Clinton has lost, there is no chance of her winning the nomination, its just a question of her finally admitting it or being forced out by the Democratic Party.

That said, regardless of how bad Obama reputation may be tarnished, I don't think Hillary would ever in any set of circumstances be a much better hope of victory over McCain, but I can imagine a panicky desparate democratic leadership trying to do damage control and making stupid decisions as a result. Losing this presidential election after how awful Bush's presidency was will not bode well for the Democrats at all.

The only way that the Democrats have a chance at losing the election is if Clinton somehow cheats herself into being the nominee.

This is the same video linked above - its from a speech in Pennsylvania he made yesterday where he once again addresses this whole matter extremely well.

Any "Obama supporter" who thinks that this matter will sink his chances at becoming the nominee... Well, I'll just say that I don't believe him when he says he is an Obama supporter.

[Darth Wong]

I'm so sick of this "I'm just like you" posturing. I'm always reminded of a great quote from Senator Gracchus in the movie Gladiator: "I may not be a man of the people, but I try to be a man for the people." What we have in politics nowadays is the exact opposite: men who fuck the people over continuously while trumpeting their "down to Earth" nature.

[Patrick Degan]

This is yet another pseudo-controversy which stinks of desperation from Team Clinton. That McCain is jumping in on this shows he's hoping Obama gets derailed so he doesn't have to face him starting on Labour Day. Meanwhile, Hillary just stupidly continues to cede more ground to the GOP, as she's taken a huge step closer to completely erasing the distinction between her and the Republican. If she does somehow wind up the nominee, and if she can't mark that distinction, she'll have nothing on which to base a case that she'd be the better choice over McCain and under those circumstances the voters will go with the "safer" choice.

[Phantasee]

At this point, I think a lot of faith in the "democracy" and "freedom" of the US is resting on the outcome of both the Democratic nomination and the election in November. If Obama doesn't win the nomination, people will know that what they care about doesn't matter, because as far as I can see, the only way Clinton can win the nomination is by basically stealing it with superdelegates or some shit. If Obama wins that, but loses the election? I have a hard time believing that will happen. If he wins, it'll be on the back of the highest voter turnout in years, I'm sure of it. If he loses, then either faith in the democratic process is gone for a long, long time (perhaps forever), or someone is playing games with the system and faking an election.

[SirNitram]

I'm so sick of this "I'm just like you" posturing. I'm always reminded of a great quote from Senator Gracchus in the movie Gladiator: "I may not be a man of the people, but I try to be a man for the people." What we have in politics nowadays is the exact opposite: men who fuck the people over continuously while trumpeting their "down to Earth" nature.

But he wanted orange juice. Not coffee. He's so obviously out of touch.

I swear to god, I wish this transcript wasn't real. But it is.

SHUSTER: Well, here's the other thing that we saw on the tape, Chris, is that, when Obama went in, he was offered coffee, and he said, "I'll have orange juice."

MATTHEWS: No.

SHUSTER: He did.

And it's just one of those sort of weird things. You know, when the owner of the diner says, "Here, have some coffee," you say, "Yes, thank you," and, "Oh, can I also please have some orange juice, in addition to this?" You don't just say, "No, I'll take orange juice," and then turn away and start shaking hands. That's what happens [unintelligible] --

MATTHEWS: You don't ask for a substitute on the menu.

SHUSTER: Exactly.

MATTHEWS: David, what a regular guy. You could do this. Anyway, thank you, David Shuster. I mean, go to the diners.

This is where the outrage is. Not the rural folks. The media establishment who wank off to that shit and offer McCain donuts after he trashes on them.

[Oni Koneko Damien]

<snip everything>

Okay, here's a simple offer: Find us these supposed legions of rural and/or blue-collar folk who were formerly Obama supporters who have just become *so* enraged with Obama's remarks that they've changed their stance. If his remarks are so horribly offensive, we should see a massive public outcry over it, rather than the tepid media spin-machine doing what it's always done, trying to create controversy where there is none.

For an 'Obama supporter', you sure as hell seem to buy a whole lot into whatever bullshit the media shovels out.

[Patrick Degan]

I swear to god, I wish this transcript wasn't real. But it is:

[Hardball]SHUSTER: Well, here's the other thing that we saw on the tape, Chris, is that, when Obama went in, he was offered coffee, and he said, "I'll have orange juice."

MATTHEWS: No.

SHUSTER: He did.

And it's just one of those sort of weird things. You know, when the owner of the diner says, "Here, have some coffee," you say, "Yes, thank you," and, "Oh, can I also please have some orange juice, in addition to this?" You don't just say, "No, I'll take orange juice," and then turn away and start shaking hands. That's what happens [unintelligible] --

MATTHEWS: You don't ask for a substitute on the menu.

SHUSTER: Exactly.

MATTHEWS: David, what a regular guy. You could do this. Anyway, thank you, David Shuster. I mean, go to the diners.

That has to be just about the most idiotic transcript I've ever seen from a "news" programme.

Don't know why I should expect any different these days, though...

[Darth Wong]

The problem is that news programs don't do news. They do news commentary, which is exactly like what you used to hear guys saying around water coolers in the office. The only difference is that these white guys spouting half-assed unresearched mindless gut-reaction bullshit are on TV and getting paid millions to do it.

[Phantasee]

The problem is that news programs don't do news. They do news commentary, which is exactly like what you used to hear guys saying around water coolers in the office. The only difference is that these white guys spouting half-assed unresearched mindless gut-reaction bullshit are on TV and getting paid millions to do it.

They don't actually get paid millions, do they? I could believe maybe hundreds of thousands, that seems like a decent salary for some of the bigger names like Larry King, Anderson Cooper, Wolf Blitzer, but I doubt John King even makes 150k.

OTOH, Glen Beck should be paid in dog food, and Nancy Grace should be paid in rope...

[Big Phil]

That was a good response to Hillbilly and McCain's bullshit - not as aggressive as I'd like, but probably about as aggressive as a black man can be without causing white racists to get up in arms about it.

The unspoken issue here is that, as a black man, Barak Obama isn't really "allowed" to tell white people, particularly poor, often racist, white people, that their lives suck because of what other white people have done to them. By doing so, he's clearly taking on the role of an uppity nigger, and needs to be put back into his place; if it sucks for poor whites, it should suck even worse for them damned darkies, and how dare a black man talk to them like that!

[Glocksman]

Hey, Obama's so out of touch that one of the most beloved men in western Pennsylvania endorsed him.

Rooney Endorses Obama For President
PITTSBURGH (KDKA) ― Both Senators Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton spoke at an event at the David L. Lawrence Convention Center this morning.

But only Obama walked away with the endorsement of Steelers Chairman Dan Rooney.

The Obama campaign, which announced the endorsement, says the 75-year-old Rooney had planned to remain neutral in race between Obama and Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton of New York.

But Rooney met with Obama during a campaign appearance Monday in Pittsburgh and offered to endorse him.

"As a grandfather and a citizen of this community I think Barack Obama's thoughtful, strategic approach is important for America," said Rooney in the letter. "When I hear how excited young people seem to be when they about this man, I believe he will do what is best for them, which is to inspire them to be great Americans."

Obama even acknowledge Rooney's presence in the crowd at this morning's Alliance for American Manufacturing forum at the David L. Lawrence Convention Center.

Stay with KDKA for more.

"As a grandfather and a citizen of this community I think Barack Obama's thoughtful, strategic approach is important for America," said Rooney in the letter. "When I hear how excited young people seem to be when they about this man, I believe he will do what is best for them, which is to inspire them to be great Americans."Obama even acknowledge Rooney's presence in the crowd at this morning's Alliance for American Manufacturing forum at the David L. Lawrence Convention Center.

(© MMVIII, CBS Broadcasting Inc. All Rights Reserved.)

[Big Phil]

The problem is that news programs don't do news. They do news commentary, which is exactly like what you used to hear guys saying around water coolers in the office. The only difference is that these white guys spouting half-assed unresearched mindless gut-reaction bullshit are on TV and getting paid millions to do it.

They don't actually get paid millions, do they? I could believe maybe hundreds of thousands, that seems like a decent salary for some of the bigger names like Larry King, Anderson Cooper, Wolf Blitzer, but I doubt John King even makes 150k.

OTOH, Glen Beck should be paid in dog food, and Nancy Grace should be paid in rope...

Brian Williams, anchor for NBC Nightly News, makes about $4 million per year

[LMSx]

Oh lord do I hate Chris Matthews and his talentless hack noise. I read a really good point about the stupid "substitution" transcript posted with David Shuster- Matthews and Shuster are judging Obama as not fake enough. He's supposed to act like a politician acting like a normal person in a diner, so when Obama doesn't obey that inane dictate (I MUST EAT WHATEVER IS PLACED BEFORE ME) the cable heads feel like they can crow about not being a "regular guy".

Fucking kabuki theater.

[Lord Poe]

The problem is that news programs don't do news. They do news commentary, which is exactly like what you used to hear guys saying around water coolers in the office. The only difference is that these white guys spouting half-assed unresearched mindless gut-reaction bullshit are on TV and getting paid millions to do it.

Oh, so it's a male version of "The View".

[FSTargetDrone]

That has to be just about the most idiotic transcript I've ever seen from a "news" programme.

Don't know why I should expect any different these days, though...

To be fair (though not to defend it in general), I don't think Hardball and other shows of its kind define them selves as "news" broadcasts. They are panel discussions/news "analysis" programs, at best.

Oh, so it's a male version of "The View".

Anyway, if I never hear Matthews pronounce Dick Cheney's last name as "Chee-ney" or hear that asinine "laugh" of his again, it will be too soon. A little of Matthews goes a very long way.

[DrMckay]

*sigh* I was talking to a fellow student to day who said he'd vote for McCain because, (in his words:)

"if Obama wins, he'll pull the soldiers out and 'they' will fight us over here."

I then asked him who "they" were. adn if he meant the Iraquis in general or Al Quaida specifically. He cocked his head, and nodded.

I then attempted to explain to him that Saddam Hussein had been killing all the Al Quaida members he could get his grubby little mitts on.

He refused to accept that, and then re-iterated his fears if Obama is elected.

I then asked him why the entire Iraqi nation would want to invade the United States of America, when they would be too busy fighting over what remained of their ancestral homes. I explained that the last thing any Iraqi or other type of terrorist cell would want to do would be attack American-oops, "Coalition" troops as they pull out.

"Because they hate freedom" he said.

"Isn't that what they'll be getting if we leave?" I asked.

-got a Blank look.

I then asked precisely how an entire nation with a disintegrating military, economy, with massive social strife and civil war, not to mention no navy of significance would survive all that plus any USN task forces and CGN's to get "over Here" if they tried. I explained that not only was it not possible politically, tactically and strategically, it was logistically impossible for a country of approx 25 million in the middle east, woth little military and no industry to attack the USA.

He just stared.

Then I walked away.

sorry about the kinda off-topic rant. I just can't believe some people....

[Darth Wong]

That has to be just about the most idiotic transcript I've ever seen from a "news" programme.

Don't know why I should expect any different these days, though...

To be fair (though not to defend it in general), I don't think Hardball and other shows of its kind define them selves as "news" broadcasts. They are panel discussions/news "analysis" programs, at best.

Unfortunately, their idea of "analysis" is very similar to the average Trektard's idea of "analysis".

[Big Phil]

snip

That's probably the first time he's ever actually critically thought about the issue, instead of just "with us or against us" crap.

[FSTargetDrone]

"Because they hate freedom" he said.

I almost can't believe someone (other than Bush or others in the current administration) actually used the phrase "they hate freedom."

Does your fellow student there just parrot everything he hears on Fox News?

"Woe, woe, they hate us for our freedom!"

[Darth Wong]

"Because they hate freedom" he said.

I almost can't believe someone (other than Bush or others in the current administration) actually used the phrase "they hate freedom."

Does your fellow student there just parrot everything he hears on Fox News?

"Woe, woe, they hate us for our freedom!"

I've run into plenty of people like that on the Internet. Not so many in real-life, but I live in Canada.

[Broomstick]

Thing is, I can imagine some small-town embittered white person saying something like:

"Fuck yeah I'm bitter and HELL yes I'm clinging to my gun, you'll get it when you pull it out of my cold, dead hands. Of course I hold fast to my religion, because sure as shit the politicians ain't gonna save us!"

I'm sure you can find an embittered, gun-toting religious nutjob from small town America who was offended - someone is always offended no matter what - but the question here is whether or not the majority is offended or not offended.