OpenMac- $399 Mac Tower

[Praxis]

From Macrumors:

A company called Psystar has started advertising a $399 computer called "OpenMac" which claims to be a Leopard compatible Mac built from standard PC-parts. For $399, you get a tower computer with the following specs:

- 2.2GHz Intel Core 2 Duo
- 2GB of DDR2 667 memory
- Integrated Intel GMA 950 Graphics
- 20x DVD+/-R Drive
- 4 USB Ports
- 250GB 7200RPM Drive

Many of the components can be upgraded, however. For example, the graphics card can be updated to a GeForce 8600GT 512MB for $155 more.

Psystar is marketing this as a cheaper and more expandable alternative to a true Apple Mac.

When comparing base configurations, the Mac Mini costs 150% of the price of the OpenMac while offering poorer performance, smaller storage space, and RAM. Not only that but the Mac Mini doesn't have the option for an nVidia GeForce 8600 video card like the OpenMac does so playing games on it is a lost cause.

The company claims that the machine is Leopard compatible with some "minimal patching" but does offer Leopard pre-installed. This is reportedly accomplished by using parts that are known to be compatible with Mac OS X Leopard, as well as the use of an EFI emulator.

With the EFI V8 emulator it is possible to install Leopard's kernel straight from the DVD that you purchased at the Apple store barring the addition of a few drivers to ensure that everything boots and runs smoothly.

Readers should note that these claims have not been independently verified, so this should not seen as an endorsement of this product. However, the technology appears to be derived from the osx86project, which has allowed hobbyists to install Mac OS X on their non-Apple PCs.

The concept is an interesting possibility, and will certainly draw the attention of Apple. The use of Leopard on non Apple-branded hardware is a violation of its End User License Agreement (EULA) and is specifically prohibited.

Psystar


Not sure what to make of this. Obviously, it flies in the face of Apple's EULA. While the makers might be able to get away with that as it is an end-user agreement, they are offering to PRE-install Leopard, which means Apple might be able to come down on it.

I'd actually consider buying one of these if it can be dual-booted with Windows, is stable, and not utterly broken in the next software update. It's exactly the kind of system Apple is missing from their lineup, the system I'd like them to make- a low-end tower with an upgradeable GPU.

Right now, the Mac Pro is the only machine with an upgradeable GPU, and it is vast overkill for my purposes.

[Resinence]

I'm actually an active member of the insanelymac/osx86 community and currently run 10.5.2 on PC hardware with PCEFI alongside Vista, so will happily answer any questions anyone here has about these kinds of setups.

if it can be dual-booted with Windows, is stable, and not utterly broken in the next software update.

You can run windows fine, but not with bootcamp. It's stable. Most software updates are fine, any kernel update rapes the system horribly

The basic deal is that since you don't have Apple's OpenFirmware on a PC, you have to have a script manually passing the hardware to the kernel at boot. It uses Apple's drivers, but of course only works on certain hardware. There is another way of doing it (which I think they are using), which is used more but is less compatible. Basically you create kexts that inject and load the driver kext's manually. It works, sure, but I'm not a big fan of fucking around with the kernel.

In essence it's native OS-X, we use Apple's drivers, on PCEFI setups you can use the Vanilla Kernel, and software updates tend to work fine, but standard setups must use a hacked kernel (hence the breakage). That said, any major patches the mess around with ACPI will still murder a "Vanilla" install. I wouldn't recommend these types of setups to general users, but if you know what your doing it's a great way to learn a bit about the internals of Darwin/OS-X.

[Durandal]

I wouldn't recommend these types of setups to general users, but if you know what your doing it's a great way to learn a bit about the internals of Darwin/OS-X.

A much cheaper way is to buy a copy of Mac OS X Internals.

[Praxis]

You can run windows fine, but not with bootcamp. It's stable. Most software updates are fine, any kernel update rapes the system horribly

How about the GPU, though? Will Windows and OS X be able to use the same GPU? I recall the Mac versions are different.

[Seggybop]

The current Mac GPUs are EFI-based instead of BIOS the same as the rest of the system, but the EFI emulation takes care of that as well. I've also seen people simply flashing the firmware of one version to actually convert it into the other. In any case, there isn't any problem with compatibility switching between OS X and Windows.

[Resinence]

Yeah, the GPU issue was solved a while back, I still use the stock firmware on my 8600gts.

A much cheaper way is to buy a copy of Mac OS X Internals.

Aww, where's the fun in that?

That said, I hope you get the legal department at Apple to sue the fuck out of these guys, making cash off some hacking for fun at the expense of a good company = fucking lame.

[Durandal]

A much cheaper way is to buy a copy of Mac OS X Internals.

Aww, where's the fun in that?

Actually, that book is an outstanding read. If I taught an operating systems course at a university, that's the book I'd use.

That said, I hope you get the legal department at Apple to sue the fuck out of these guys, making cash off some hacking for fun at the expense of a good company = fucking lame.

I don't exactly have any sway over who we sue and don't sue (though I did uncover a FireWire trademark violation once). Besides, I'm sure they're well aware of this little operation and will take whatever action they deem appropriate.

[MKSheppard]

That said, I hope you get the legal department at Apple to sue the fuck out of these guys, making cash off some hacking for fun at the expense of a good company = fucking lame.

Yeah, because of course, the only way to enjoy the proper Apple (TM) experience is on overpriced Apple (TM) hardware with markups.

[RThurmont]

As odd as it may seem, I'm actually going to come to Apple's defense (partially) on this one.

While IMO Apple's restriction of OS X to Mac hardware is undesirable (although frankly, I have zero interest in running OS X on my PCs and only a passing interest in permitting it to remain on my sole Mac Mini's HD, I agree with Linus Torvalds that Macs are best used as Linux development workstations), calling a Mac clone an "OpenMac" is an obvious and blatant infringement of the Macintosh trademark. Its also not like OS X won't run on regular PC hardware (its just that there is little point to doing such; the one much touted advantage of OS X is "tight hardware/software integration" which supposedly leads to troublefree operation, which you discard when you attempt to load it into some horrible HP laptop).

I agree with Durandal also that OS X Internals is a quite an interesting book. It occupies my library, and as I pursue my eventual goal of getting into OS programming, its one of the books I'm reading with vigour (the others are Solaris Internals, Windows Internals, The Design and Implementation of the FreeBSD Operating System, Micro C/OS-II, and Linux Kernel Development).

OS X Internals is the most expensive and voluminous of them, amusingly enough.

[Xisiqomelir]

That said, I hope you get the legal department at Apple to sue the fuck out of these guys, making cash off some hacking for fun at the expense of a good company = fucking lame.

Yeah, because of course, the only way to enjoy the proper Apple (TM) experience is on overpriced Apple (TM) hardware with markups.

Windows users have no ground to stand on when it comes to crying about overpriced software.

[Vohu Manah]

Not sure what to make of this. Obviously, it flies in the face of Apple's EULA. While the makers might be able to get away with that as it is an end-user agreement, they are offering to PRE-install Leopard, which means Apple might be able to come down on it.

I am not a lawyer so take this for what it is worth: Apple will probably defend the EULA, but they'll probably also attack this company on the reselling of Leopard without a resellers agreement. To my knowledge Apple hasn't attempted to shut down the various groups hacking OS X to run on non-Apple computers through force of law but those groups don't charge money either.

Hopefully Apple will act soon because I get the feeling this might be interesting to watch for a number of reasons if Psystar actually has the balls to back their rhetoric.

[Joviwan]

That said, I hope you get the legal department at Apple to sue the fuck out of these guys, making cash off some hacking for fun at the expense of a good company = fucking lame.

Yeah, because of course, the only way to enjoy the proper Apple (TM) experience is on overpriced Apple (TM) hardware with markups.

Windows users have no ground to stand on when it comes to crying about overpriced software.

Good, because that clearly says Hardware.

[Uraniun235]

Windows users have no ground to stand on when it comes to crying about overpriced software.

What if they're using Windows illegitimately?

[Durandal]

As odd as it may seem, I'm actually going to come to Apple's defense (partially) on this one.

Defense about what? Apple hasn't done anything to these guys. Hell, it doesn't even look like they exist.

While IMO Apple's restriction of OS X to Mac hardware is undesirable (although frankly, I have zero interest in running OS X on my PCs and only a passing interest in permitting it to remain on my sole Mac Mini's HD, I agree with Linus Torvalds that Macs are best used as Linux development workstations), calling a Mac clone an "OpenMac" is an obvious and blatant infringement of the Macintosh trademark. Its also not like OS X won't run on regular PC hardware (its just that there is little point to doing such; the one much touted advantage of OS X is "tight hardware/software integration" which supposedly leads to troublefree operation, which you discard when you attempt to load it into some horrible HP laptop).

Do you ever stop trolling?

[Natorgator]

Apparently they want to go to bat against the legal team:

Psystar Corporation, which this week began selling a series of Mac clone systems without Apple's blessing, is determined to challenge the Mac maker in court over the licensing terms for its Mac OS X operating system.

Speaking to InformationWeek, a Psystar employee identified only as Robert said his company sees Apple's end-user license agreement, which prohibits third-party installations of Mac OS X on non-Apple hardware, as a violation of antitrust laws.

"What if Microsoft said you could only install Windows on Dell computers?," he said. "What if Honda said that, after you buy their car, you could only drive it on the roads they said you could?"

As such, the Psystar representative implied that the company is eager to bring the matter before a court, where it believes Apple will have a tough time defending its stringent licensing terms.

As part of its defense, the Miami-based reseller also appears to be accusing Apple of price gouging its customers with each Mac OS X-based computer it sells.

"They're charging an 80 percent markup on hardware," Robert told InformationWeek.

He said Psystar plans to continue selling its $400 OpenMac clone and insisted that the company isn't "breaking any laws."

Ironically, Psystar on Monday evening changed the name of its offering from "OpenMac" to "Open Computer," presumably to avoid charges that it was indeed violating trademark law.

I wonder how this is going to play out.

[RThurmont]

I don't think Psystar has a snowball's chance in Accra of winning this one...if they do, though, the game console manufacturers, as well as IBM, are going to be ticked... IBM especially, given that their entire mainframe pricing system (based on "classic workloads" such as z/OS, COBOL and so forth being more expensive than workloads performed with Linux installed) would become effectively invalidated.

Defense about what? Apple hasn't done anything to these guys. Hell, it doesn't even look like they exist.

Well my point is that (aside from all concerns regarding OS X licensing), these guys did, IMO, infringe on Apple's trademarks. Being a branding guy, that's a big deal to me. One thing that really annoys me is when companies go after people for bogus trademark infringement (see T-Mobile's recent, well publicized, hostile letters to engadget), but at the same time, in cases where a trademark is legitimately being violated (by these guys), that is a case where IMO enforcement action should be taken. If Apple hasn't sued them yet, I would assume (and hope) that the papers are being prepared as we speak.

[Vohu Manah]

It may not matter. Gizmodo seems convinced the entire issue is a hoax.

After the Guardian did their own investigation into the Mac clone maker Psystar yesterday, we decided to take it a step further and see if they actually exist, in the physical sense. How could a company so brazenly challenge Apple and have little to no record of actually being a company? We sent the Gizmodo army down there to get pictures of both their supposed addresses, and found that they're as much vaporware as the Phantom Console of yore. Read on for the details and location pictures.

First, let's revisit what we already know. Not only does the Miami Chamber of Commerce and BBB not know anything about any company named Psystar (confirmed by reader Travis through his contacts in the chamber), the actual physical address they listed on their website actually changed halfway through the day yesterday. What's going on here? Did they all of a sudden move from a home business into a new office space? Nope. Here's the deal.


Reader Michael went down to their first location, address courtesy of the Guardian's quick fingers, and saw that it was indeed a residential address. It's a one story house with a truck and sedan out front. Not a business, but still holds the possibility of being a small home business. Still, unlikely. Why would they change their address? Perhaps they saw all the reaction they were getting about their Open Mac products and wanted a bigger space?

Nope. Reader Kahri visited their second location and saw no Psystar, but a packing supply company called "USA KOEN PACK." Was Psystar leasing the place? No. He spoke with the manager, and they've never heard of Psystar, and USA KOEN PACK has been at that location for the last two years. KOEN PACK actually takes up from 10481 to 10490, so there's no chance of it being a mistaken address. Update: Looks like Psystar's changed their address once again to 10471.

Now that we know their storefront isn't actually there, how about their online presence? As other readers pointed out when they tried to purchase an Open Mac for themselves, at no point was the credit card transaction secure. Today, when you visit their store page, you get this:

Thank you for visiting Psystar. We're sorry but the store is temporarily down due to the fact that we are currently unable to process any credit card transactions. Please send an e-mail to support@psystar.com with the subject line "UPDATE" so that we can update you when the store comes back online. For customers who have already placed orders: if you received a confirmation e-mail then your item is in queue to be built and shipped.

Here's our recommendation. Don't buy anything from Psystar now until we can clear this up. We've contacted them for more information and a review unit too see if everything they're claiming is real. So far, no response. We'll keep at it, but for now if you're looking to get a Mac clone, you're better off building it yourself.

Thanks to Kahri, Mike and Travis!

Update: Reader Robert did some more digging in the Florida Corporate filing office, and it seems that Psystar's principles are Rodolfo and Roberto Pedraza, who are officers or agents on a whole crapload of companies. Only one of these companies besides Psystar is currently active: Floridatek. As Robert says, "These guys are obviously clowns."

[Sam Or I]

The Story Continues.

http://www.news.com/8301-13579_3-992043 ... ag=newsmap

(Its only the second half of the article, the post above covers most of the first half.

UPDATED 4:25 pm--Believe it or not, they changed it again. Psystar is now located at 10475 NW 28th Street. This is really weird.

I tried to call Psystar executives Wednesday morning and was directed to submit any questions to an e-mail address at Psystar. The company doesn't appear to have been prepared for the onslaught of attention following the discovery of the Open Computer on its Web site, as its online store was briefly down Wednesday morning. It's now back up and taking orders.

Perhaps foolishly, once the Web store came back online I placed an order for an Open Computer with Leopard preinstalled. I got the basic model for $554.99, although they kill you on shipping with a $93.41 shipping and handling fee for UPS Three-Day Select.

A gentleman who answered the "sales" extension at Psystar's toll-free number told me there is a 7- to 8-day build time right now for the Open Computer. When I asked him what accounted for the delay, he said the company had received many orders in the past few days. He also said he had only started at the company a few days ago.

In other Psystar news, the developer who created the firmware emulator that allows the Open Computer to bypass Apple's restrictions on Mac OS X is peeved that the company is using his technology without his permission.

Netkas, who created the EFI v8 emulator, says he released the software under a strict noncommercial license. For a while, Psystar had not even acknowledged his contribution, but the company has added an "open source" section to its site noting his authorship of the EFI v8 emulator and saying, "Psystar will promote Open Source projects in every way possible."

Am I the only one who finds it hilarious that the author of software that is designed to violate a company's licensing agreement is annoyed that another company is using that software in violation of his own licensing agreement?

Anyway, that's the latest with Psystar. I'll update this post later if I get a response to my e-mailed questions, or if anything else surfaces.

Fun little meaningless drama we have going here.

[Lisa]

I think the only reason they haven't been sued is no one can find their legit physical address to serve them with papers.

I do notice they changed the name from openmac to open computer (it's really a $250 computer that they're selling for $400).