Is Christianity's poor construction an advantage?

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2008-04-16 11:31am

Axiomatic wrote:Christianity has a built-in dismissal for any contrdictions that may arise - "It is a Mystery."

How can God be A and also B, where B seems to suggest notA? Why is character C beloved by God even though he acts in horrible ways? It is a Mystery, and therefore true.

It's not just the contradictions. The whole message of Jesus is completely impossible to live by. Its very spirit runs totally counter to any sort of practical guide to living.

Kitsune · Post by **Kitsune** » 2008-04-16 12:11pm

Darth Wong wrote:It's not just the contradictions. The whole message of Jesus is completely impossible to live by. Its very spirit runs totally counter to any sort of practical guide to living.

I keep running into that..the idea that sex is bad and that having children is bad from various Christian sects....

What do they do? 50 or so years down the line the religion does not exist anymore.....

Zixinus · Post by **Zixinus** » 2008-04-16 12:12pm

Simple: they adopt heathen children and convert them.

Arthur_Tuxedo · Post by **Arthur_Tuxedo** » 2008-04-16 12:17pm

This is an interesting hypothesis, but it seeks to explain a non-existent quandary, the historical superiority of Christians over Muslims. But recent research is overturning more and more Eurocentric conclusions and finding that Europeans weren't superior scientifically, militarily, or in any other way prior to about 1500 when European powers started to gain access to the vast riches of the New World and were able to fund a scientific revolution (along with vast globetrotting armies, of course). The scientific advances prior to that were also happening elsewhere, and there's no good evidence that Europeans leaping ahead was due to any intrinsic superiority on their part, so there's no need to hypothesize about why their religion might have made them superior.

Kitsune · Post by **Kitsune** » 2008-04-16 12:21pm

Zixinus wrote:Simple: they adopt heathen children and convert them.

From the ones I have read about, it seems to work for a while but eventually seems to fail.....

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2008-04-16 12:29pm

Arthur_Tuxedo wrote:This is an interesting hypothesis, but it seeks to explain a non-existent quandary, the historical superiority of Christians over Muslims. But recent research is overturning more and more Eurocentric conclusions and finding that Europeans weren't superior scientifically, militarily, or in any other way prior to about 1500 when European powers started to gain access to the vast riches of the New World and were able to fund a scientific revolution (along with vast globetrotting armies, of course). The scientific advances prior to that were also happening elsewhere, and there's no good evidence that Europeans leaping ahead was due to any intrinsic superiority on their part, so there's no need to hypothesize about why their religion might have made them superior.

This argument was already addressed earlier.

Axiomatic · Post by **Axiomatic** » 2008-04-16 04:17pm

Darth Wong wrote:
Axiomatic wrote:Christianity has a built-in dismissal for any contrdictions that may arise - "It is a Mystery."

How can God be A and also B, where B seems to suggest notA? Why is character C beloved by God even though he acts in horrible ways? It is a Mystery, and therefore true.
It's not just the contradictions. The whole message of Jesus is completely impossible to live by. Its very spirit runs totally counter to any sort of practical guide to living.

That's rather the point.

If the laws could be followed, you wouldn't NEED Jesus. Because you'd be innocent. But since the laws have been safely set out of human reach, it means everyone needs Jesus to forgive them for breaking the laws.

Junghalli · Post by **Junghalli** » 2008-04-16 08:30pm

Kitsune wrote:What do they do? 50 or so years down the line the religion does not exist anymore.....

You keep right on screwing and having kids, you just make sure to wallow in self-hatred about how "sinful" you are and how you really deserve to be tortured forever (along with the whole human race) and it's only through the awesome mercy of God that you aren't.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2008-04-16 09:55pm

Axiomatic wrote:
Darth Wong wrote:
Axiomatic wrote:Christianity has a built-in dismissal for any contrdictions that may arise - "It is a Mystery."

How can God be A and also B, where B seems to suggest notA? Why is character C beloved by God even though he acts in horrible ways? It is a Mystery, and therefore true.
It's not just the contradictions. The whole message of Jesus is completely impossible to live by. Its very spirit runs totally counter to any sort of practical guide to living.
That's rather the point.

If the laws could be followed, you wouldn't NEED Jesus. Because you'd be innocent. But since the laws have been safely set out of human reach, it means everyone needs Jesus to forgive them for breaking the laws.

They don't just break them, the way a delinquent might occasionally break laws by stealing something. No, they totally ignore them, the way Somalian warlords do. How many Christians do you know who make an honest effort to give away as much money as they can bear? How many do you know who even make a half-hearted effort to do so? The fact is that almost everyone simply ignores all those teachings. And the nature of the religion is that they must do so, or their societies will flounder.

There's a difference, I think, between making a law which can't be followed all of the time and making a law which people will just laugh at.

The Guid · Post by **The Guid** » 2008-04-16 10:22pm

One potential flaw in this line of reasoning is the lack of knowledge most people have about scripture. back in the day it was in a language nobody spoke and even since then very few have the time and the inclination to read through and find what they are doing wrong.

It could be suggested though that the laws in the OP are ones that a Christian would know anyway, which I would accept.

Axiomatic · Post by **Axiomatic** » 2008-04-17 06:15am

Darth Wong wrote: They don't just break them, the way a delinquent might occasionally break laws by stealing something. No, they totally ignore them, the way Somalian warlords do. How many Christians do you know who make an honest effort to give away as much money as they can bear? How many do you know who even make a half-hearted effort to do so? The fact is that almost everyone simply ignores all those teachings. And the nature of the religion is that they must do so, or their societies will flounder.

There's a difference, I think, between making a law which can't be followed all of the time and making a law which people will just laugh at.

There are no points for runners-up. You are just as deserving of eternal damnation if all you ever did in your life was a single naughty thought about a woman you weren't married to as you are if you rape and murder your way through a kindergarten.

There is no point in being good, because your best good is not nearly good enough. Nobody's good is. Only Jesus is good enough.

Adrian Laguna · Post by **Adrian Laguna** » 2008-04-17 06:17am

Christianity's poor construction must be why the clergy generally don't encourage the people to read the Bible. Oh sure they claim to encourage it, but seeing as so few people actually do it, I don't think they're doing a good job, ever even trying to. This is rather unlike Islam, were even the dumbest tool is expected to recite Koranic verses from memory.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2008-04-17 09:30am

Axiomatic wrote:There are no points for runners-up. You are just as deserving of eternal damnation if all you ever did in your life was a single naughty thought about a woman you weren't married to as you are if you rape and murder your way through a kindergarten.

That is how the religion is technically supposed to work, according to the clergy. That's not how most Christians view it, because it's so wildly impractical and stupid. There's that poor construction I mentioned.

There is no point in being good, because your best good is not nearly good enough. Nobody's good is. Only Jesus is good enough.

See above.

Omeganian · Post by **Omeganian** » 2008-04-17 10:04am

Darth Wong wrote:
Axiomatic wrote:There are no points for runners-up. You are just as deserving of eternal damnation if all you ever did in your life was a single naughty thought about a woman you weren't married to as you are if you rape and murder your way through a kindergarten.
That is how the religion is technically supposed to work, according to the clergy. That's not how most Christians view it, because it's so wildly impractical and stupid. There's that poor construction I mentioned.
There is no point in being good, because your best good is not nearly good enough. Nobody's good is. Only Jesus is good enough.
See above.

It reminds me of the question "what is the proper thing to say if you have trouble". Now, if you look in the Old testament and the commentaries, the optimal would be to say "Blessed be the creator of justice" (saw this formula in the obituaries myself). Aaron, the first High Priest of Israel was said to freeze when his sons died - and that was completely legitimate. But if you look through the books, then the conclusion is, everything is acceptable except for direct blasphemy, and sometimes (the Book of Job), the God is ready to forgive even that. Bordered path is one thing, the Christian railroad is another.