[Macross]Yet another I need advice with a coworker thread

[Starglider]

Macross, you are completely, utterly unqualified to psychoanalyse other humans. The fact that you've confabulated a load of obvious self-serving bullshit about an almost total stranger provides final confirmation on the fact that you're delusional about this girl you've got a crush on and for that matter your own mental state. 'Everything you've learned over the years' seems to be negatively useful broken heuristics - it sounds like you got into the habit of making more and more elaborate assumptions about people without every actually testing those assumptions by talking to them on a meaningful level.

I honestly don't know how it's possible to salvage your life at this point. The well analogy seems quite apt; I get the impression that you've been steadily digging yourself into a hole while convincing yourself that you're actually learning social skills. This is probably a tennent of faith for you. Unfortunately I can't see how you're going to make actual progress unless you abandon it, throw out all your broken assumptions, and genuinely start from scratch with a learn-by-doing approach (instead of delude-self-by-sitting-on-ass-and-pontificating approach). While this is blatantly the right thing to do from anyone else's point of view, from your own warped point of view this would be a hard decision, and with regret I don't expect you to make it.

[ANGELUS]

I think we should stop asking him if he asked her out when we already know the answer... this dickless coward doesn't have the balls for that... I'm not really sure what he's trying to accomplish by simply "thinking" all of this without telling her a single thing, is he trying to atract her telepathically? Also I can't grasp the idea that he seriously thinks that his total lack of experience in relationships can outsmart the combined experience of dozens of people telling him exactly the same things.

Anyway, after that "I can't hate you Nitram" speech I seriously doubt he'll answer anymore to this thread, he's probably laying on the floor next to his bed in fetal possition thinking that he's right and that we all feed on the hate and despair of our victims. He's also thinking that this girl's friendly smiles represent "she's only happy when she sees me" and that he stands a chance that he can't afford to blow.

In the end there are only two things he might do:

- Option 1: He'll stay in the job he already has and keep looking at this girl with "love" from his dark little corner without telling her anithing for all of the years to come until she leaves that job for a better one and he'll never see her agan.

- Option 2: He'll go to that other new job and leave the old one without ever telling this girl a damn thing and he'll never see her again.

Make your bets.

(ok, there's also the option that he'll become a serious stalker, the kind of stalker that burns his name with gas on his victim's front yard, but I still have a little faith in humanity).

[Big Phil]

He's not a stalker. Being a stalker, besides requiring a certain level of mental disease, also requires you to have a pair of balls. Macross is too scared to do anything except lecture people on the Internet.

[Darth Wong]

he's probably laying on the floor next to his bed in fetal possition thinking that he's right and that we all feed on the hate and despair of our victims.

It's too bad we can't actually do that. His despair alone could power our forum server for years.

[Oni Koneko Damien]

B'aaaaaaa!!! Sirnitram is mean to me! He slapped me around like a whiny little bitch, then his wife slapped me around like a whiny little bitch! Then some other girls and guys slapped me around like a whiny little bitch! It's almost as if I'm actually a whiny little bitch. But no! I'm right, everyone else is wrong!

Hey, Macross, seeing as how you've gone after Nitram because he has disorders and took the time and patience to try and get a full grip on what the fuck your major malfunction was, try this:

I have Aspergers, Social Anxiety Disorder, Chronic Depression and a host of other issues. I'm obviously waaaay ahead of both you and Nitram in the disorders department. Why not try to take a shot at me?

Oh wait, I forgot, you're an obsessive compulsive little failure who would have been far better as the wet-spot, but daddy refused to pull out. You can't even see, much less address me, Wong, or anybody other than Nitram because, just as is the case with the co-worker you pined for from afar like a pathetic loser, you can't concentrate on more than one person at a time.

So is Nitram now your evil arch-nemesis? Are you now devoting your online-life, and quite possibly a good chunk of your offline-life, to combating this nefarious monster who lives off of hate and says bad words to you? You can tell all your friends about your new quest, to rid the world of this evil that...

...oh wait, you have no friends. Maybe a few co-workers whose pity for you, for the moment, outweighs the creepy vibes they get from you, but no friends. You're a sad, pathetic little man, you know that? I bet when you were born, the doctor slapped the afterbirth because that looked more appealing. I bet if you had a dog, it would commit suicide because that is how truly pathetic you are.

My schedule looks something like this, and I'm sure this can be generalized to most of the people in this thread, aside from you, just by changing a few of the specifics: I get up. I kiss my sleeping girlfriend on the forehead. I go to work, it's unfortunately fast-food because I'm still trying to work past a few rather shitty mistakes I've made. I work an eleven hour shift. I come home. My girlfriend and I give each other massages because I ache, and she has a nasty lower-back problem that's been growing over the past few months. My girlfriend heads out to Wal-Mart with the other room-mates. I check my online messages, and because I'm bored, go onto SDnet to mock a pathetic loser who needs to grow the fuck up, check the news, and see if any interesting articles have popped up. I take a nap, promptly forgetting about the sad waste of flesh until the next time I get bored and go onto SDnet.

Do you understand this? For most of us, SDnet is nothing more than a hobby. We come on here, we debate, we talk about things, we mock stupid people. We then go offline and lead real lives. Nitram, right now, is really fucking sick. Tevar's taking care of him, and he's barely functional due to some as-of-yet unidentified infection. Yet even in that state he can smack you down without even trying.

Grow up and get a life you silly little should-have-been-an-abortion.

[The Spartan]

Okay, I know I said I wash my hands of him, but I have to admit I have been thinking a bit about this. He claims that we're just picking on him, but, how often have people come to this board with problems in their lives and had board members all but fall over themselves to try and help someone with advice that they've, in many (most?) cases, never met?

Persecution complex indeed...

As long as I've stopped by: Macross, have you given up on her and moved on yet?

[Mr. Coffee]

As long as I've stopped by: Macross, have you given up on her and moved on yet?

Of course he won't do that! If he did that he would have to give up being a whiny little attention whore.

[The Spartan]

Well, one can hope. I suppose.

[Boeing 757]

Okay, I know I said I wash my hands of him, but I have to admit I have been thinking a bit about this. He claims that we're just picking on him, but, how often have people come to this board with problems in their lives and had board members all but fall over themselves to try and help someone with advice that they've, in many (most?) cases, never met?

Persecution complex indeed...

You and everyone else are highlighting a rather good point for him here, and since I think Macross is still reading on but not responding, I hope he gets some ideas into his head after this is all over with, and that he decides to actually try to understand why people are saying these things to him.

I've had severe social anxiety problems all my life until I just recently decided that I'm sick and fucking tired of the bull shit I myself had propagated, and I needed a huge change. Fortunately, I'm not anywhere near as old as he, but I still believe he can change if he decides to move quickly, instead of letting oppurtunities escape him with each passing day/year. I've summed up some of my feelings and solutions in dealing with the SAME disorder that he has, and I hope he'll get a clue from them.

I would spend hours thinking that everyone was filled with nothing but hate, and that no one cared for one other. I'd get negative impressions about myself and think that someone was just trying to manipulate me for personal motives when all everyone was doing was just trying to create some friendly conversation.

Also, I'd put the largest pressure on myself for the smallest things EVER. Someone would give me a smile, or utter a simple "hello", and my muscles would tighten up and I couldn't say anything in return. Afterwards I would think wtf was wrong for me, because I couldn't understand why.

I don't know how, but one day this year, I realized something really important which hopefully Macross will understand also before it's too late for him. It was all in my MIND, and I was the one making the world so full of shit. I couldn't allow myself to feel anything differently, and so everything good just smelled like hateful bullshit.

A large part of my problem resulted from my low self-esteem and severe introversion on my part, but I can only offer Macross a few tips that I've learned which made my problems worse.

1)Tell yourself everyday that you have value, and that you love yourself. Find the POSITIVE points in your personality and life, and don't concentrate on the negative things anymore. Think only about the future. Get a journal, and write down everything that you are thinking and feeling. Focus on what you HAVE to do, not what was. BELIEVE that you can do them, 'cause you can and you don't now it yet.

2)Try to love people, and do it the write way. You have to develop some sort of empathy, and DON'T overthink stupid shit. Go to a restaurant or some other public forum, sit down, and actually watch what other people are doing, how they interact. I did this and it helped a lot. It helped me realize that people AREN'T negative, and that they have feelings too--good ones. I or no one shouldn't assume that people are trying to be hateful, when its fucking self-evident that everyone is just trying to be happy and live. More importantly, it made me realize that I should be happy too, and that no one else had a birthright to happiness that I hadn't possessed.

3)Don't go into a converstation thinking negatively. Imagine that you are happy, that everyone else is happy, and that everything will be positively well as you go along. You'll make it a self-fulfilling prophecy, and for the best you obviously want it to be good, so do this. Finally with that, don't put worthless feelings of pressure on yourself, man. There's no point! Be in control of your feelings and realize a conversation for what it actually fucking is: just an outlet for the inner expression of your soul to find some escape, and to even get a rebound. You'll learn something about yourself in the process, and I promise its for the best.

4)Just as everyone else has said, don't be afraid to grow a pair. Don't let the problem overwhelm you. Accept it, and tell it you're going to make it your bitch, because you're awesome and nothing can stop you. You're superman, without the costume. It's not easy, and I can tell you that it will take a while, but you have the think of the prize at the end of the rope. The prize always outweighs the problem.

[Boeing 757]

A large part of my problem resulted from my low self-esteem and severe introversion on my part, but I can only offer Macross a few tips that I've learned which made my problems worse.

Sorry, made my problems BETTER is what I meant to say. Of course they didn't make them worse.

[aerius]

I've said for a long time now that if a dork like me who sets of people's gaydars can let laid with hot chicks, then anyone can do it. I believe I've now been proven wrong, and will have to make an exception to my unwritten rule. Macross will not get laid. On top of that, I'll also bet that DEATH will score a 3-some before Macross grows a set of balls and dates a woman.

[Darth Wong]

Boeing 757, that was an excellent post. Too bad Macross probably won't heed it.

[Enigma]

I've held off making my opinion known about Macross invented dilemma because I first thought that he needed the benefit of the doubt.

I thought originally I could relate to him since a few already know that a few years ago I had a big crush of a woman I knew for a while. True I didn't work with her so I had less interaction than Macross had with his "object of affection" ( bah why do I have a mental picture of an oversized Macross hold that woman in his arms saying "I will pet her and feed her and love her all the time. Tell me about the rabbits?"), but I wanted to ask her out badly. Unlike Macross, I finally overcame my hangups and in a circular way did ask her out only to be politely shot down. Yes, it crushed me, but that is okay. It wasn't long after that, that I met a woman, who eventually became my wife. My fears and other mental nuttery made me a virgin until almost a month after my 31st birthday.

My only regret is that I didn't overcome my fears and disability sooner but then again if I did that then I wouldn't be married to my wife right now. Now if only the Visa Center would get off their ass and get that interview ready so I can move to the U.S. and be with my wife for good. Sheesh, I've been married for a little over a year and a half and still no Green Card.

Bah! I'm rambling. Just to get to the point. Don't use your disabilities, real or perceived as a crutch to prevent you from asking a woman out. You fear she might reject you? So what? Your life does not depend on her answer. Hell, I know a mentally challenged couple that have a combined I.Q. of a coconut and they are happy together and I bet they have lots of sex because one of them must have barely enough brainpower to ask the other out. If even they can get together, what is your excuse?

[Bob the Gunslinger]

This thread was amusing as hell. First off, though, I think a lot of people knee jerked to 'stalker' when he never really stalked the girl but he loses no points on his 'creepiness'.

Actually, his posts paint a pretty vivid picture of someone losing touch with reality while holding completely alien assumptions about how human beings interact, and with a disturbingly narcissistic tendency to project his failures onto the (not at all hated ) others in his life.


Let's look at the bigger picture here:

I have probably stayed at this job longer then I should have to see if anything would develop with her. ...

I had to leave work early because I was unable to concentrate and stay focused. [because she might have a boyfriend]
...

my instincts tell me she wasn’t leading me on, that she was genuinely interested, but my friends instincts tell her she is already in a relationship.… well, if she is right and i am wrong, then I might as well give up because everything I have come to understand to be true about relationships is wrong. That means, by extension, that everything that I have come to understand about myself over the past three years is wrong. I can’t afford to be wrong about this.
....


Im not talking about sex, I'm talking about relationships...
The fact that you equate relationships and sex and believe that it is impossible for someone to go two years without sex tells me that you have your own misconceptions about relationships and that you probably should not be giving advice. ...


She was single in 2006, and since that time I believe that she has started showing interest in me. ... Why would she be showing interest in me if she was already in a relationship? ...

She already knows about the abnormal difficulties I experienced with socialization while growing up.
....
The other kids had picked up on my weakness and they were merciless, I just kept getting pushed deeper and deeper into a shell. ..
When I was finally diagnosed, I learned that none of the problems I had experienced had been my fault....

I may not know a whole lot about relationships or signs when someone is interested in you, but I do know when someone is hiding their true emotional state, after all, I did it for years. She never came across as someone in a relationship. ... The only time she ever really seemed happy was when she was talking to me...

How can I move on when there were so many mistakes that never seemed like mistakes?
I did not immediately accept the obvious because I believed there was more to the story.
When does confidence become arrogance?
When does hopefulness become blindness?

If I knew she was happy, then I could walk away. But I don’t believe that she is happy. She always left me with the impression that she was unhappy and lonely, and that’s why it was difficult for me to accept that she was in a relationship. In fact, I would say that she has become increasingly more depressed over the past few months, since the time she bought the house. It was also around this time she started becoming distant to me.
...
I know that women can sometimes settle down with someone for the wrong reasons, and I believe that this is the case.
...
So today, I consulted another coworker, someone who has known her for a while. I pointed out some of the observations I had made, and my coworker seemed genuinely surprised by them. My coworker didn’t really know what to say, but the look on her face told me that I was making sense and she would have to think about it. ....

There is something between us, their is history between us, it may not seem like much, but its enough for me to at least give this a try. It is enough for me to know that I just cant walk away without ever knowing.
.....
Well, I see you have completely and utterly failed to understand me or why this is important. I am trying to prove to myself that I have changed...
You call me obsessive and an idiot because everything I have learned in life, everything I have experienced tells me there is still some small hope? Walking away is the easy thing to do and there was a time I would have walked away without hesitation, but to do so again would mean that I would have learned nothing.

Creepy enough for you?

I know why you showed these private messages to everyone, to rally the support behind you, to get the forum to unite against me so that I would hate you.
....
I can not give you what you need, I can not hate you.

Seriously, I dare you to say this to anyone and not come across as a creep. Try it on your boss.[/quote]

[Bob the Gunslinger]

HAVE YOU ASKED HER OUT YET?

Or instead have you been too busy sitting in your darkened bedroom frothing spittle onto your monitor screen while Whitney Houston's "The Greatest Love of All" plays at full volume repeatedly in the background while horribly projecting your issues onto Nitram?

Just wondering.

I'm fairly sure he's listening to Goodbye Horses while typing this up....

It seems pretty clear to me that he can't ask her out now. He has too much wrapped up in keeping a static fantasy and defending his obsession with her. I seriously fear that he might harm himself or others if he were to find out that "everything he had learned about himself" over the last couple of years was complete bullshit.

Asking philosophical questions is how I have grown and developed.

I think this right here says everything we need to know about his relationship with reality.

Also why he has no social skills.

[Bob the Gunslinger]

Oops, Knife, I think I misunderstood you. I thought you were saying that Macross wasn't creepy...

[18-Till-I-Die]

I love how he says "I dont hate you".

Like one of those little gun-drones in Portal. That's LOL-tastic.

I know this is a zero-content post here, but i just found that part funny. The fact he even sent that little "love letter" to Sir Nitram is in itself hilarious too.

[Knife]

Oops, Knife, I think I misunderstood you. I thought you were saying that Macross wasn't creepy...

Whew, I thought I'd have to write a big post going through your post line by line. Good thing I kept reading.

[CaptainChewbacca]

Holy crap, I missed that whole "I know her true feelings, she was only truly happy when she was talking to me."

THAT is gonna end in some skin-wearing, mark my words.

[Zablorg]

Damn, I miss that too. So not only does he pine after this woman in a disturbing fashion, he's convinced that she feels the same way? That's double creepy.

Who wants to bet that he thinks she thinks about him while having sex with her totally-not-for-her boyfriend?

[Xess]

I'd like to take this opportunity to re-enforce Boeing 757's post. The best way to deal with these kind of problems is to change the way you think. If you think that everyone is out to spite you and manipulate you for their own sick pleasure you start acting that way and thus drive people away.

Good news is that you can change the way you think, it's just not an easy or fast process, especially if you're unfortunate enough to have any number of mental illnesses or disorders that make doing so even more challenging.

To use myself as an example, I used to think everyone who treated me with anything other than verbal abuse was just doing so so that they could later turn and make their abuse that much more horrible for myself to experience. As such I was a horrible recluse for most of my life to be honest having only one or two friends. The way I was thinking was due to many factors such as constant bullying from the ages of 7 to 15 and sporadic bullying after that till I got out of high-school and severe cases of both General Anxiety Disorder and Clinical Depression. Around this time of the year in 2004 I was suicidal and on the very edge of hospitalization.

I began weekly sessions with my psychologist and with his help along with some medication I've managed to haul my ass out of the pit and get to a point where I can have a conversation with strangers and not think that they're part of an evil conspiracy against me. I'm getting out with my friends, of which I now have many, as often as my health, both mental and physical, allows and have even found a nice girl who's totally into me.

The only downside to all this is that it took me four years from getting diagnosed to attain just the regular functionality of an average person. And as much as I might mourn the loss of years of my life it's far outweighed by the fact that I am indeed able to function as a member of society and be happy with it.

Macross I suggest you seek professional medical help and start working to change your life for the better.

[Tolya]

Oh for fuck sake. I just found this thread and sorry as I am for zombifying those whining grounds, I want to make a personal statement.

Macross, you are not special. You are not the only guy in the known universe that has problems.

When I was around fifteen I was wrongly accused of masturbating at the school's toilet. I just finished writing a test in Polish literature and went to take a leak. Unfortunately I stumbled upon an idiot from the worst class in the whole school. I think he was jacking off himself and he thought I would expose him. In the next 15 minutes the entire fucking school was convinced it was me. Do you know how fucking nice it is to have entire school laughing at you and picking at you? For the next 5 years I was fucking afraid to leave my house, most of my socializing went to hell, most of my friends turned up on me and I totally closed up on any kind of relationship. I was afraid to go to school, I was crying in my sleep on how my life crumbled down. Back then I thought it is the end of the world.

Right now I am in a stable, loving relationship, with our 6th anniversary coming in september. We've been married for almost a year now. The past events were traumatizing, but now I can only laugh at them.

Now look me in the eye and tell me that it is impossible to get up and make something out of your life, even if you are convinced that it is downright miserable. And my problems in the past were a fucking laugh compared to stuff that some of my friends had.

If that's what emo is, I understand now why entire citywide mobs gather just to bash the living shit out of people like you. You are disgusting and there is no way in hell you will find a SANE woman that would like to be with you. Unless you pick yourself up, because there is always HOPE, even if you are a whiny ass self righteous moron.

[PeZook]

Fuck...reading his post is like looking into a huge, empty, dark pit of despair. You want to wail towards the moon and gnash your teeth.

Well, okay, not really, but I'm really glad I didn't end up like him. I mean, jesus...he's past thirty! I know that geeks are supposed to have social problems and all, but in the real world, most of them resolve those when they grow up. He didn't even talk to the girl? Didn't ask her out for fucking coffee? High school-style drama, man. At the office!

Tolya, we gotta have a drink to not ending up like him. Fuck. I'll even drink vodka for once

[Tolya]

Dont worry man, there is no way in hell we are ending like him. Remember, we both attended our marriage ceremonies. Two geeks on a wedding bring luck.

[Darth Wong]

Hey guys, guess what Dipshit just sent me via PM:

I am currently having a problem with SirNitram, but the situation has gotten out of control and now requires intervention to put a stop to it.

I openly acknowledge that I have a number of mental health issues, Social Anxiety Disorder, Attention Deficit Disorder, and Chronic Depression. I suffered from these conditions all my life, but it has only been several years since I was properly diagnosed and began treatment. I have made a lot of progress over the years and I am trying to build a normal life. The point is I am being treated.

SirNitram has admitted to me that he has Asperger’s Syndrome, a form of autism. He also said that he is not being treated, and maintains that his Asperger’s Syndrome is not a problem. He considers it a weakness, and says that it does not define or control him. Unfortunately, his recent behavior in the open forums and in private messages tells me that he is in a severe state of cognitive dissonance. He can not accept that his Asperger’s Syndrome is a problem.

Look up Asperger’s Syndrome on the Internet.

If you look at his messages, you will see that he exhibits many of the symptoms of Asperger’s Syndrome and you see a pattern emerge. He misinterprets the argument, and jumps to the wrong conclusion. He makes logical errors. When his opponent tells him he misinterpreted or misunderstood the argument or made an error, he will accuse his opponent of “changing the story”, or “lying”. He accuses his opponent of making the very same mistakes that he has made. He projects his own faults onto others.

He then starts throwing out insults; he wants an argument to erupt.. He wants to change the subject, so no one can dwell on his error. He knows that he is popular on this board and knows that many members will automatically side with him without even bothering to understand the situation, he uses this to his advantage. He hopes that once everyone gangs up on his opponent, the opponent will either concede out of frustration or leave the board in humiliation.

This is how he proves to himself that his Aspergers is not a problem, and this is how he has remained hidden for so long.

I did not figure this out until he started sending me private messages and then posting those private messages in public. He needs the public support from everyone to validate himself.

He tried to prove to me that he had his Aspergers under control in private messages, but he kept making logical errors, he fell back into his pattern. He doesn’t have any public support in private messages and I refuse to play his game, so now he is appealing to the public again and trying to get me banned from the board. He is using his popularity to convince everyone that I am some disturbed social deviant, when he and I both know he is the one with the problem.

I openly talk about my experiences with mental health issues so that I can dispel the stereotype that anyone with any kind of mental illness is a disturbed social deviant. Yet SirNitram perpetuates that stereotype when he himself has a serious mental illness.

He has got everyone so worked up that they wont believe anything that I say, and anything I do say will only probably get me banned. The last time I made a call for reason, the thread got thrown in Hall of Shame…

He tried to lure me back into that thread, so the “witch hunt” could continue. So when I told that this was what he was trying to do, he starts a brand new “witch hunt” all over again in the Imperial Senate.

I am not angry with SirNitram, I understand that it’s the Asperger’s Syndrome that is causing him to act this way. He needs professional help to get this under control, but he first needs to realize that he has this problem. He is not doing himself any favors by inciting the others to his aid.

He’s done talking to me, and he is so obsessed with this that getting me banned is the only option he has left to convince himself that his Aspergers is not a problem. Yet he does not realize that this fits right into his pattern.

I can not help him anymore. He needs to get this under control, he needs help.

Read up on Asperger’s Syndrome.

Look through his posts, look for the pattern. Then you will see that I am onto something.

It’s the only way to clean up this mess.

I responded:

What the fuck is your problem, moron? Do you honestly think you can make a qualified diagnosis of someone based on the fact that he's rude to you in an Internet forum?

Grow the fuck up. This kind of armchair psychoanalysis is a troll tactic at best, and your pitiful attempt to prove to yourself that you're better than he is will not salvage your pathetic excuse for a personal life.