Bernd Schneider finally answers my E-mail

[consequences]

Well, darn, guess I'll have to be perverted without the immoral support of my brethren, but I will be strong, and singlehandedly face the bastions of morality and purity.

[Darth Wong]

Don't worry, there's plenty of room on this board for both depravity and blasting feeble-minded weak-kneed cowardly hypocrites like Bernd and his little butt-buddies.

[His Divine Shadow]

Have you ever stopped to think that the apologies might NOT be BS? They weren't. They were sincere. We have discussed this on SCN, and yes, everything said on this board is sincere. Bernd's email was an attempt to make amends with you, and you rejected it

That was the worst excuse for an apology I have ever seen, I'd be insulted to get one like that, sounds like a fake or forced apology along with a bunch of insults and unsubstansiated claims.

[Connor MacLeod]

Watching this guy interact with Mike reminds me alot of The Adam Warlock and Mike duking it out

[Moonshadow]

There are several things that the EAS people don't seem to understand

You know. I am a member of SCN who signed up for this board after a few months from signing up there. Was my intentions to flame or Spam? Did i start a "SW sux! ST ownz!" thread like an IGN dipshit fanboy trolling in "the whatever system he doesn't own board"? No. I came here not to start a war. I came here because i don't just stick to one board. I like having a few boards to hop back and forth to. I don't try to conform to whatever message board i go to. No one should have to. Ask me if i'm a Trekie or a Warsie or a 5er. Hell , i really don't know. However i take offense when i'm labeled an idiot or whatever because " I post at SCN" or "I post at SD.net" or whatever bullshit. The way you are wording your post about "the EAS People" is just as bad as when someone over there talks about "Wong and his Horde." Unfortunately BOTH sides are guilty of flaming the other. Its gotten to the point where it doesn't even matter who started it. END IT one of you and be the better of the two. this bickering is making BOTH parties in the argument look rather sad.

[His Divine Shadow]

I agree, ofcourse I don't care anymore about EAS the board itself, I really, really don't care about a board that has such an administrator and such people there.

And I guess this doesn't include you moonshadow.

And no, I think it does matter who started it, I think it's pretty clear what happened, as someone said to me "it takes two to tango"
And as I said in return "We weren't even aware of the tango, but now we're holding them by the arms swinging so hard they're going to leave orbit when we let go"

[Edi]

Having followed this exchange from the sidelines, I'd say that Mike and the others here are fully justified in beating the snot out of the idiots who started this. If we speak disparagingly of the EAS people in general, it doesn't preclude there being intelligent, nice people there too, people like you, Moonshadow, but the general behavior of the EAS board and especially its moderators and admins validates all the flames they get from here in this thread, for example. We judge people by their merits, and while you pass the grade, the rest of them fail miserably and are treated accordingly. Their track record of lies, insults, trolling and whining when called on it merits only contempt.

Edi

[Dargos]

I don't think that I owe you anything. I have been talking about you (or rather, about your website and forum) behind your back. I am sorry for anything personal that may have slipped into my criticism and, once again, I have to apologize for speaking of the SD.net members as a whole.

This seems to be an actual apology, but......

I see, however, no obligation to inform you whenever I feel like talking about your website. Do I have to tell Brannon Braga when I criticize his writing? And it has not been "for years", but only since I discovered your SD.net forums last summer.

"However I should be allowed to trash talk you as much as I want, without having to defend my arguments against your theories." And perhaps Mr. Wong made a slip with the "for years". Perhaps Mr. Wong was includeing the e-mail correspondance that DID happen years ago.

Let me elucidate why I (unwisely) brought up this topic at SCN. After our e-mail exchange about three years ago (which was, in retrospect, more pleasant than I remembered), I was content with the conclusion that we simply had two different ways of looking at science fiction, where I think that "fiction" is the more important part of the word.

So basicly he feels that he must "spell out" exactly why started bashing Mr Wong. To perhaps show some sort of justification for his actions. (ooooooh "elucidate" big words...wow a Degree must really mean something)

I could laugh about your inconsistent stirring up of different viewing angles (you know, Star Trek is scientific crap, is weak, and is evil).

He laughs at Mr. Wongs ability to look at a subject from more that ONE angle? Mutiple pointd of views of a subject (in this case scietific, military capabilities and moral standards of the ST universe) gives the veiwer a better UNDERSTANDING of it. As to the inconsistancy, I would like him to elaborate on what exactly he means by Mr. Wongs inconsistancy of points of views.

I could tolerate your selective application of science to problems in science fiction.

He claims that Mr. Wongs uses only the parts of science that will support HIS side of any arguments. WHILE ignoring science or evidence that would disprove his claims. Again I ask him to elaborate.

I could live with the knowledge that only few people in the silly "vs." circles would listen to you anyway. But that has changed with the SD.net message board. It appalled me how you, who claimed a victim role for himself (offended by hordes of stupid trekkies or something along these lines) could set up a place where you do exactly the same with Star Trek and gather hundreds of followers for this campaign. Man, I almost believed you when you once told me that "trekkies" were the worst of all! I had no idea.

In my view, you have put yourself on trial, by creating your demagogical website and by supporting a message board where intolerance is being promoted. Your extremely one-sided views, your polemical bashing of everything and everyone Trek, your personal flames and insults leave no other interpretation but that you are out for trouble. Please don't complain if someone decides not to follow your way (which would be, engage in a "debate", in the course of which you would smugly comment on all of his "fallacies"). Your debates are pointless, they have never achieved any goal (maybe instead of boosting your ego). Your opponents were mostly flame warriors of that kind too, BTW. But
I'm not like that.

So ok...I can agree with the first part. If you create a Web Page on a subject you open yourself up to those who would take a differant opinion.

As to the site being a "demagogical website" I would also agree that SOME take this much too seriously but I have not seen it taken to an almost religiouse level. I am sure that most of us take this as an insult to our intelligence to assume that we look to Mr. Wong as the "Messiah of STAR WARS" or some such thing. Many people on this bord HAVE dissagreed with Mr. Wong. Most of us DO respect his knowlege in the areas discussed on his website BECAUSE it appears to be a well made and well researched. I think Mr. Schneider takes the title that many give to Mr. Wong i.e. LORD WONG, MASTER WONG, GREAT ONE etc too seriously. Mr. Wong is simply popular, intelligent, respected in this comunity and THIS IS HIS WEB SITE AND BOARD. He is not The Great Leader of the Masses of Urak-Hai (High Orcs)
Those he verbaly abuses almost always deserve it. Though IMO he does have a hair trigger temper, but hey lots of people do.

I won't speak for you, but I am not our for controversy elsewhere, be it in the web or in real life. I don't need anyone or anything to disprove, to blame, to ridicule, or sometimes to insult, only so I feel good. Ask yourself if you can say the same about yourself.

As Mr. Wong paraphrased in his first post Mr. Schneider says in this paragrahe "So I am better than you so na na NA NA NAAA!!! I spit in your geneneral dircetion you dirty little Canadian you"

Regarding my own website, it's so funny that you call it "pseudo-scientific", although it is not about scientific theories in Star Trek, let alone in any other fiction. I only strive to put things straight that would better perceived or valued differently in my opinion in order to make Star Trek more consistent. I have revised my findings countless times, even to the opposite, whenever new evidence became available or people told me I was wrong. I can do that because I am not adhering to dogmatism. I help developing sci-fi further, while you restrain it with the corset of your self-righteous ideas until it suffocates.

Ok..I havent seen his website so I will not comment on it. But see how he throws insults about at the end and makes a statement without BACKING IT UP

As for some of your posts getting edited, I agree that it wasn't correct. I admit that Felis has overreacted. We are all only human. But I will gladly excuse errors that have been made on both sides in this useless controversy. Your members and you yourself are welcome at the SCN, if you heed our principles not to swear, not to troll and not to flame other members. We are a community that is based on our common interest in Star Trek and other science fiction, and not "the mockery of stupid people". Of course, I can't speak for all our members. They are by no means my "followers". But I wholeheartedly agree with my fellow administrator Dan and the moderators that we want to keep out everything that is likely to cause an uproar.

He admits that editing Mr. W. posts was incorrect but turns around and says that he agrees that they wish to "keep out EVERYTHING that is likely to cause an uproar" So to have a lively debate on their MB is IMPOSSIBLE. Sounds very boring to me and very Feddy i.e. police state.

No, I don't like you (at least not if you are in real life like you are in the web).

Really, wow, what a suprise.

But I would like to end this here, without sifting through your website and making an endless list of your fallacies. If you still call for satisfaction, I leave it to you to mock about me or my website likewise. I know that I may be wrong about many points. I know that much is a matter of interpretation. But I also know that I have done the right thing. I can't be everyone's friend, but I can help to extend our knowledge about a fascinating hobby.

Bernd Schneider

So he would like it to end here with this E-mail, without justifying ANYTHING HE WROTE without a REAL apology. I really like how he tries to be humble at the end but offers to " help extend our knowldge about a fascinating hobby." All in all, for a German, if he is German, he has a wonderful vocabulary and impressive writeing skills. BUT I DO NOT BUY IT GUYS
[

[Boba Fett]

I don't see such a big problem here.

Take a look in the mirror a lot of times we all behave like Schneider.
We make critics on other persons without warning him.

Mike the only cure I know to solve this problem is if you sign on his forum and keep yourself up to date on topics related with you and your commentaries.

Don't take it as an offence but you and Schneider are very similar to each other.

You posted his letter here. Did you warned him that you will do that?

How he supposed to defend himself now?

We have a proverb in our language but I don't know wether you have the same in english...?

"Preaching about water but drinking wine..."

On the other hand it's nice if you inform us about that but I rather think it's quite personal.



Ps: ...and don't take it as an offence, rather a friendly observation.

If I misunderstood something then take my apology...

[Darth Wong]

BF, since your powers of observation seem to be as sorely lacking as Schneider's testicles, let me explain something to you: there is an open offer of debate to Mr. Schneider for him to defend himself against our accusations. Frankly, his E-mail is self-incriminating; he reveals his character in it quite clearly. He, on the other hand, refuses to give me the same hearing that I offer to him. I blast people but I always give them a chance to answer. Even before I had these boards, I posted GK's rebuttal to my criticism of ditl.org completely and unaltered, precisely as he requested, and I stood ready to debate him if he wanted. Do you really think that is equivalent to Mr. Schneider's pussy-assed "punch you in the back of the head and then say 'can't we all get along' when you turn around" behaviour?

[Boba Fett]

If I misunderstood something then take my apology...

Then obviously this sentence is in order...

[His Divine Shadow]

No, it's too late!
*slits BF's throat*

[Boba Fett]

No, it's too late!
*slits BF's throat*

LOL

BTW it's never too late to confess a mistake...

[Darth Wong]

And while we're on the subject of your mistakes, why the fuck did you turn your back on Han Solo over the Sarlacc pit?

[Boba Fett]

And while we're on the subject of your mistakes, why the fuck did you turn your back on Han Solo over the Sarlacc pit?

Uber-LOL

That was really unfair!!!

That's all GL's fault...

Daddy, please tell them...Daddy?...Daddy where's your head?

Oooh noooo....the memories!!!!

[Slartibartfast]

<snip bullshit>

I'm not sure that "I'm sorry that you're a bunch of one-sided, intolerant demagoges and that your site is full of fallacies (never mind that I don't even know if it is because I can't point them out) and pointless stupid points that will never amount to anything, and I'm also sorry that you're not as wholesome as I am" constitutes an apology, NF_Utvol. Maybe if you took some reading comprehension lessons you wouldn't think it is an apology either.

[Slartibartfast]

If you had read the first one, you would have found that it started out as a ships name thread, then moved to a thread concerning racial discrimination. And it got VERY heated.

I once touched the side of my monitor. It burns, I tell you, BURNS!

[Slartibartfast]

Consider them scum if you want, but I'd really like to see us start discussing something interesting again.

Say that again when you have at least 500 or so posts

[Wicked Pilot]

DW, if you would be so kind, would you please delete NF_Utvo's avatar and sig. He doesn't deserve it, and it's pissing me off.

[Darth Wong]

Mission accomplished.

[Cpt_Frank]

Those people are unbelievable.

[Warspite]

Could it be possible the SCN denizes are so ingrained, in the Star Trek Universe, that they end up behaving much like the fictional characters?

Consider:
Respect for each other views. (However silly they are.)
Debate as only a medium through which views are shared, seeking a middle-ground in which everybody agrees. (Since all views are respected, there's no debate.)
Moral high ground, by not debating, derating in front of it's peers, or plain and simple swearing. Also, introduction of underhanded and subrepitious moral lessons of superiority. (I'm better than you are, because I don't do things like you do, and since I'm rigth, I don't need to explain myself.)

Huuuummmm... Where did I see this before?

[Slartibartfast]

Sounds like the kind of people who would show up at work in StarFleet uniform every day, carrying lots of useless plastic toys and demanding that their coworkers refer to them by their StarFleet rank

Now where have I seen that before

[Grand Admiral Thrawn]

Erm... I'm just making sure...The above was my attempt at parody. No one at EAS said it!

Err...oops?


Anyways, he does say it HERE

But I would like to end this here, without sifting through your website and making an endless list of your fallacies.

[^^]

*Commence primary buttfucking*

Ladies and Gentlemen, we have a victor (and he isnt Bernd Schneider)

I hereby demand that this fuckwit be put on trial for hurting my frontal lobe