SD.net's World OOC/Discussion thread?

[K. A. Pital]

if someone could do a decent schematic with moons on it, I'd be most grateful

Selene sounds most suitable for exploration, but we will be launching 'em probes to all three ye-haw !

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

A 777? Come on! I could outfit a custom An-225 for you. That's way more badass; also, it fits a super-huge penthouse. And only $200 million pricetag - for the biggest plane in the world 15 400 km range

As for trains, we're interested in testing out Jet Train testbeds on your territory. We will run them gratis

How does the fuel consumption work out? I am looking to set up an airline, though my local aerospace industry doesn't mind indulging themselves a little.

[Shinn Langley Soryu]

Assuming you buy at full ticket price of course

Langley is in the OMSK, so prices are negotiable (hehehe). For example, a 30% cut on all fighters

MiG-29: $25 million, support costs probably a million or less per the craft.
Su-27: $30 million
Su-30: $40 million

Yak-130: $10 million full complect

30% cut on all fighters sounds nice. So, you're telling me I can get Su-30s for as low as US$28 million? That'll be something for the FY2010 and FY2011 budgets, then. For now, I think I can squeeze in four Yak-130s with my leftover military spending money, eight if the 30% cut applies to trainers as well.

Bean's suggestions for air defense and naval expansion do hold some merit, though. Since I blew the current budget on two heavy transports, a gunship, and at least four trainers, they'll have to wait until the next fiscal year. The same goes for MariusRoi's drones; as mentioned before, I've already shot my wad, so they'll have to wait until FY2010 at the earliest.

The HAL Tejas analogue project also sounds interesting.

[K. A. Pital]

How does the fuel consumption work out?

The 777 is a workhorse and it's fuel consumption is rather low, that's why it's so popular. An An-225 is a superheavy lifter, it has 4 engines instead of 2, and their SFC at same mach is greater.

If you're buying it as a 1-of-kind diplomatic ship, that's okay, it's also fine to get it as a cargo liner.

But not as a passenger jet!

[Beowulf]

A 777? Come on! I could outfit a custom An-225 for you. That's way more badass; also, it fits a super-huge penthouse. And only $200 million pricetag - for the biggest plane in the world 15 400 km range

Yeah, but then you get the notorious Russian quality. Additionally, you get a vast, unusable range, because the usable airspace simply isn't that big. Additionally, fuel consumption is horrible.

If they get a modern 777, then they get a plane much more in tune with their requirements, built to civilian standards of comfort.

Langley: Douglas Aircraft is willing to sell T-45C Goshawk trainers for a cost equal to the RT price. I don't think you really require a Mach 2+ capable fighter though.

RedLeader: Tian Xia is also one of the worlds largest users of high-speed trains. Runs on electric power, which results in lower overall costs.

[K. A. Pital]

Look, marketing wars! Here we goe!

Yeah, but then you get the notorious Russian quality. ... Additionally, fuel consumption is horrible.

You're competing against one of the best high-thrust engines in the world

D-18T - turbofan three-shaft engine
The D-18T is used to power the An-124 RUSLAN and An-225 MRIYA cargo aircraft. The engine is equipped with an efficient thrust reverser mounted in fan duct. The engine’s module design together with efficient component condition diagnostics means provides possibility of on-condition operation without plant overhauls.

Main advantages of the engine:
■ High takeoff thrust
■ Low specific fuel consumption
■ Low noise and pollutant emission levels (comply with ICAO
standards)
■ High maintainability and repairability.

Basic specifications

Takeoff power
(SLS, ISA):
Thrust, kgf (kN) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 23430 (229.85)
Specific fuel
consumption, kg/kgf.h (kg/N.h) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 0.34 (0.0347)
Cruise power
(H=11000 m, Мfl=О.75, ISA):
Thrust, kgf (kN) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4860 (47.68)
Specific fuel
consumption, kg/kgf.h (kg/N.h) . . . . . . . . . . . . . 0.546 (0.0557)
Dry weight, kg . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4100

Hell, you use An-124 yourself and yet manage to market-speak about it's engines as low-quality!

Additionally, you get a vast, unusable range, because the usable airspace simply isn't that big.

Ha-ha-ha! Isn't 777s range also around 14K kilometers? I'm damn sure it is. The range of a fully loaded An-225 is 4,000 km, which is well within what is required.

So I'm afraid you stand to lose here unless you show why a An-225 is not an impressive enough craft

[phongn]

Operating costs for any twinjet is going to be vastly superior compared to four or six-engined birds. What does he even need an An-225 for?

[Beowulf]

Sure, the 777 has 14k km range... if you're ferrying one of the largest versions. The more typical range is 7k km.

And I'm market speaking about the typical Russian quality of technology. I'm actually using GE engines on the An-124 anyway. The GE90 has the highest thrust of any individual jet engine anyway.

[K. A. Pital]

Sure, the GE90 is more powerful, but it's:
a) hulking huge - transportation issues for maintenance, replacement in case of failure, unserviceable by local personnel
b) more expensive

The D-18T is
a) cheaper
b) modular design allowing for non-factory maintenance, easy assembly-disassembly and transportation

Duh. So he can serve his plane by himself with the D-18T, but not with the GE-90; and if serious problems arrive, transporting one module of the smaller D-18T would be far easier than the GE-90.

[Beowulf]

Only the fan on the GE90 causes transportation problems. Removing it allows transport on nearly any air-freighter. It being a two-spool instead of 3-spool reduces the number of moving parts, and therefore maintenance. Also, the greater number of engines on the An-225 will cause increased amounts of maintenance to be necessary.

All of the cash he spends on gas and maintenance could be better used on booze and hookers.

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

So how much will 40 B-777s, 10 of which are -200LR and 15 are 300 and 15 300ERs?

Local assembly and manufacture is favoured for at least half the order.

[K. A. Pital]

The Boeing-777 is more expensive than an An-225, not least due to hideous engine costs - ~20 million per engine. A single D-18T costs 11 million for foreigners; for OMSK members we ship it at the internal 7 million price. It's service costs are also lower quite obviously.

How the hell do you figure it gives any economy at all!

So An-124's engine suite (4xD-18T) would cost 28 million - a Boeing's would be 40 million - for just two engines. An An-225 (6xD-18T) would be 42 million.

See for yourself

[Beowulf]

So how much will 40 B-777s, 10 of which are -200LR and 15 are 300 and 15 300ERs?

Local assembly and manufacture is favoured for at least half the order.

About $7.75 billion. I strongly encourage that you buy -200 and -300s, however. There's little benefit to the -200LR and -300ER over the regular version, in this game. Doing so will save about $800 million.

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

The Boeing-777 is more expensive than an An-225, not least due to hideous engine costs - ~20 million per engine. A single D-18T costs 11 million for foreigners; for OMSK members we ship it at the internal 7 million price. It's service costs are also lower quite obviously.

How the hell do you figure it gives any economy at all!

So An-124's engine suite (4xD-18T) would cost 28 million - a Boeing's would be 40 million - for just two engines. An An-225 (6xD-18T) would be 42 million.

See for yourself

Trouble is Stas, not every destination is going to warrant an aircraft as large as a An-225 unlike a 777 which has a range of capacities. For countries near me, a 777-200 will be ideal. A -300 will be for the rest on the frontier.

Fingolfin_Noldor wrote:
So how much will 40 B-777s, 10 of which are -200LR and 15 are 300 and 15 300ERs?

Local assembly and manufacture is favoured for at least half the order.


About $7.75 billion. I strongly encourage that you buy -200 and -300s, however. There's little benefit to the -200LR and -300ER over the regular version, in this game. Doing so will save about $800 million.

Alright, 20 -200 and 20 -300s then. Spread over 3 years delivery and some assembly of parts as part of the deal, and perhaps injection of capital for a stake?

[K. A. Pital]

Given our 30% Special OMSK member Jet Discount, picking OMSK-made An-225 for representative flights over the 777 will mean a 60 to 110 million economy, depending on the 777 cost (200-250 million). Picking an An-124 could mean a 100-150 million economy, and a cheaper engine suite.

For passenger flights, the RT can offer the
Tu-204/214 (25-45 million depending on complectation, OMSK jet discount not applicable)
Il-96 (60-100 million, depending on complectation, jet discount applicable)

These prices are looking far better than Beowulf's - he's offering small nations to blow their budget on complicated and expensive planes, which will require outsourced service.

Ditch that!

Edit: 40 Il-96s will cost you around $4 billion, and with a discount I could provide a whole ensmble for 3 billion.

The PS-90A costs 2 million USD! The GE-90's costs are hideous, from 14 to 20 million USD!

[Beowulf]

Local assembly will raise the cost of the planes, because you need to pay for a whole new assembly line. Base cost will be about $6.7 billion, not including the cost for the new assembly line. If you effectively finance the cost of the assembly line, as your injection of capital, it should run about $2.2 billion/year, with a plane delivered about every month.

EDIT: Stas, you might actually want to place his country on the map.

[PeZook]

Damn, Vedra is pretty militarized!

They have a heavy military, a sizeable air force and an absolutely huge navy (30 missile boats? Poland operates 14, and we have 10 times the GDP...)

It's a good thing they're not going to be my neighbor, because then I'd be worried

[K. A. Pital]

This is ridiculous. You're offering engines and craft far in excess of his any need, and with a price that would make his budget creak.

Il-96 (400)
Max to weight 265.000 kg
Max passngers 435
Cruise speed 870 kph
Max speed 900 kph
Flight range 10.000 km
Engine: PS-90A ($2 mil per, $8 mil for 4x plane suite)

Price: $100 mil (discount at domestic prices, meaning $70 mil and $30 mil economy)

Boeing 777
Max to weight 250.000 to 360.000 kg
Max passengers: 300 to 450
Cruise speed: 905 kph
Max speed: 945 khp
Flight range: 6000 to 14000 km
Engine: GE-90 ($14 to 20 million depending on type)

Price: $200-250 million (depending on complectation)

The Boeing loses that.

Stas, you might actually want to place his country on the map.

I placed Fingolfin on the map a loong time ago . RedLeader34 and Vedra are pending placement

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

What's the fuel economy like for the II-96? This is both a long term investment and so forth. The planes will be for the soon-to-be formed Byzantium Airlines which will be 50% Government owned and the rest up on the stock market and so forth. The company will be largely privately operated and they will finance the deal with both Government and private money.

Plus, I'm looking to continue building the local aerospace industry. It continues to grow as it completes the local orders for the Lance fighter line (An F/A-18, F-15 equivalent) and refits to our fleet.

[K. A. Pital]

EDIT: screwed up numbers, because of the "per passenger per km" figure. Found some figures per plane:
Il-96: 8000 kg/hour
Boeing 777: 5000 kg/hour

3 ton per hour economy for the Boeign, meaning 4800 USD per day.

Which means you will need 20833 days, or 57 years to catch the economy of 100 million per plane.

Not as insane, but still out of plane life.

Of course in our world it's not as neat: when prices of aviafuel ton rise to 600 USD per ton, this means in around 10-14 years a Boeing fleet will cost less and make reasonable economy the longer you exploit it.

Another thing is the resource. On the average, it's around 6000 days (assuming 10-hour daily average for each plane in the aviapark), 3 times less than what you need to make the fuel economy matter. Western planes can live ~20 years (in reality), our can live around ~16 years. Another 4 years of Boeing's exploit, however, will not make up: 40 million of economy and still 60 million left to cover the 100 million price disparity. 34 years still left to cover, which is 14 years longer than the 20-year exploit life.

[Shroom Man 777]

PeZook, why are you ruining your country?!?!

[PeZook]

PeZook, why are you ruining your country?!?!

Dude...

Astoria Daily RAG

Don't base your intelligence assessments on a tabloid

I just felt I had to point out that things are not all that rosy in PeZookia: We're still very much a 2nd world country, even if things are improving slowly.

Oh, and of course various shitheads like the MCP may try to use the 16% poor PeZookians to their own ends, so that we can have a cool series of politickizing plots.

[Shroom Man 777]

Gasp! Just like the Philippines!

[Redleader34]

I think I may go electric, as I have limited fuel supplies. Most of my machines are electric, with some ethnol supplies. I think I am going to go for the Ru...So... hmm, I may take one of each! For testing, of course, I figure I will compare both over a period of 6 months. I need the longest range possible though, as the FUNGAL AXIS is on the other side of the world, and even with refueling, it is best to make it one longe 18-23 hour trip.

Another Inquiry though, does anyone make high end hi to medium speed yachts, or is the pirate situation too intense to travel over the open seas freely?

[K. A. Pital]

I need the longest range possible though, as the FUNGAL AXIS is on the other side of the world

On the other side of the Africa-sized archipelago, you meant because the New Earth is similar in all geophysical conditions to, well, Earth, but we all constitute but a small fraction of it's surface.

You can see the, um, km scale on the map. Which shows that a range of 4000-6000 km will get you to anywhere