Alien goes a travelling

DocMoriartty · Post by **DocMoriartty** » 2003-01-23 12:31pm

Ok, a single queen is set loose on B5, DS9, and the Death Star. She has all the time she needs to find somewhere out of he way to hide.

Assuming the station in question does get suspicios until she grabs enough people to be noticed how well does each station handle the situation?

Which ones get eventually overrun by Aliens and which ones repel this horrible acidic threat?

Montcalm · Post by **Montcalm** » 2003-01-23 01:15pm

DocMoriartty wrote:Ok, a single queen is set loose on B5, DS9, and the Death Star. She has all the time she needs to find somewhere out of he way to hide.

Assuming the station in question does get suspicios until she grabs enough people to be noticed how well does each station handle the situation?

Which ones get eventually overrun by Aliens and which ones repel this horrible acidic threat?

For Babylon 5 she would hide and grab every lurker in down below by the time security would notice something is wrong it would be too late.

for DS9 they may have an earlier warning

as for the death star i`m not sure where she would be.

DocHorror · Post by **DocHorror** » 2003-01-23 01:18pm

Interesting, I suppose it depends on how easy it is for the Aliens to be detected by internal sensors...

If the Aliens are invisible to them there could be trouble, if they show up on them then the Station security teams could realistically come up with a method for containment & extermination...

irishmick79 · Post by **irishmick79** » 2003-01-23 02:10pm

What if a queen winds up in one of the trash compactors? If she uses the acid blood to disable the mechanisms, she'd probably be able to start setting up a hive before maintenance realized something was up. Maintenance didn't bother to come down and kill the dianoga in there, so I'd doubt they'd be that responsive to life form readings on their sensors. Sure, somebody would probably get interested when crewers start disappearing from corridors, but by then it could be too late.

Post by **Mr Bean** » 2003-01-23 02:15pm

Death Star has lots of emtpy spaces but not places where an Alien can hide, Furthermore they have ALOT OF MANPOWER and all that Man-Power is Comm-Linked to each other, the Instant anyone dies they know(Remeber mear moments after the Control Room fokes are dead they already have a Responce team down there)

DocMoriartty · Post by **DocMoriartty** » 2003-01-23 02:23pm

The place is the size of a small moon. How can you say that there are no places where an alien can hide. The Death Star would be riddled with tunnels and access tubes to allow the maintenance of the reactor and the computer systems.

Mr Bean wrote:Death Star has lots of emtpy spaces but not places where an Alien can hide, Furthermore they have ALOT OF MANPOWER and all that Man-Power is Comm-Linked to each other, the Instant anyone dies they know(Remeber mear moments after the Control Room fokes are dead they already have a Responce team down there)

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2003-01-23 02:26pm

DocMoriartty wrote:The place is the size of a small moon. How can you say that there are no places where an alien can hide. The Death Star would be riddled with tunnels and access tubes to allow the maintenance of the reactor and the computer systems.

Unless they designed it like normal people would, with important systems out in the open like the tractor beam junction relay that Kenobi shut down. I don't recall ever seeing an "access tunnel" to an important system on the Death Star; hell, the reactor is in a big open cavity!

You've been watching too much Star Trek.

DocMoriartty · Post by **DocMoriartty** » 2003-01-23 02:31pm

The place is massive. Not everything important can be located in easy to access places.

Also one has to think about the less than important items. Even if the item is not critical you need to be able to get at it to replace it. If you place all the critical items in easy to reach places you are still going to have other items behind it etc that you need access to.

Finally we know the place is at least partially ridden with man sized tunnels. If the brig has a man sized tunnel out of it (not very smart in my opinion) then odds are just about everywhere else does as well. This is even worse since obviously there were no sensors in the garbage compactors.

Darth Wong wrote:
DocMoriartty wrote:The place is the size of a small moon. How can you say that there are no places where an alien can hide. The Death Star would be riddled with tunnels and access tubes to allow the maintenance of the reactor and the computer systems.
Unless they designed it like normal people would, with important systems out in the open like the tractor beam junction relay that Kenobi shut down. I don't recall ever seeing an "access tunnel" to an important system on the Death Star; hell, the reactor is in a big open cavity!

You've been watching too much Star Trek.

DocMoriartty · Post by **DocMoriartty** » 2003-01-23 02:33pm

There is also the ventelation system you have to consider as well as likely some sort of large scale conveyor system of some sort for the movement of heavy gear and simple food.

I doubt every time you have to move something large from one side of the DS to another you have to hand carry it or throw it on a shuttle and fly it over.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2003-01-23 02:38pm

DocMoriartty wrote:The place is massive. Not everything important can be located in easy to access places.

Actually, you've got it ass-backwards. The bigger something is, the easier it is to put everything where you can get at it.

Also one has to think about the less than important items. Even if the item is not critical you need to be able to get at it to replace it. If you place all the critical items in easy to reach places you are still going to have other items behind it etc that you need access to.

And in the Death Star, those items are so huge that full-sized corridors will do the job. No one needs to crawl around glorified ductwork.

Finally we know the place is at least partially ridden with man sized tunnels.

That's a garbage chute, not an access tunnel. The only thing it accesses is death.

If the brig has a man sized tunnel out of it (not very smart in my opinion) then odds are just about everywhere else does as well. This is even worse since obviously there were no sensors in the garbage compactors.

Why would they care to scan their garbage?

I say again: you've been watching too much Star Trek. You don't need these ridiculous crawlspaces everywhere, and a garbage chute is a piss-poor place for an Alien queen to go. How much thick SW metal would she have to corrode away in order to avoid being squashed? We're talking about TONS here.

DocHorror · Post by **DocHorror** » 2003-01-23 02:44pm

I can agree that there probably is a great deal less star trek style crawl ducts, but their are still plenty of places for an Alien to hide eg air ducts, lift shafts, etc...

I wonder how effective the DS internal sensors are given they seemed none existant in ANH...

irishmick79 · Post by **irishmick79** » 2003-01-23 02:49pm

Mr Bean wrote:Death Star has lots of emtpy spaces but not places where an Alien can hide, Furthermore they have ALOT OF MANPOWER and all that Man-Power is Comm-Linked to each other, the Instant anyone dies they know(Remeber mear moments after the Control Room fokes are dead they already have a Responce team down there)

Teams were only sent down after Han's abortive attempt to con the officer at the other end of the intercom, which was apparently open during the entire firefight. Any deck officer with half a brain would be more than a little concerned by lots of blaster fire noise over his intercom channel. And it wasn't until well after the disturbance in the prisoner wing did the imperials investigate the initial breach of security in the hanger bay. I don't think the imperial response is as swift as you claim.

Sure, the prison guards might have been comlinked to each other, but if the aliens land their patented stealth attacks, all the other soldiers would hear would be "ack...*choking sounds*". By the time they get around to investigating, the alien and the unfortunate crew member would be long gone. Judging by the imperial response (or lack thereof) to the incapacitated troopers in the falcon, I'd be willing to bet the aliens would be able to pick off some crewers here and there.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2003-01-23 02:56pm

"TK-421, why aren't you at your post?"

Are you so sure they won't pick up on missing crewmen?

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2003-01-23 02:59pm

Let's think about this for a minute: let's suppose the Queen grabs a hundred men. This seems way too high, but just for the sake of argument. Now she's been caught and they know where she is. How the fuck does she plan to stop the Death Star's security forces from rolling into her hideout and turning her into a laboratory experiment? There are MILLIONS of crewers on the Death Star!

Each stormie has acid-resistant body armour and a sidearm that will chew up aliens for breakfast, probably one-shot kills in most cases. The hallways are wide open, with solid bases and ceilings instead of movable metal grate. This is a worst-case scenario for the aliens; they won't be able to stop the Imps from nabbing the Queen, there are no civilians to worry about, and once the Queen and her eggs are gone it's just a matter of mop-up.

irishmick79 · Post by **irishmick79** » 2003-01-23 03:01pm

Well when a crewer is posted in an open hangar bay where all can see, they'd probably not miss him, but if a crewer is wandering around by himself in a corridor somewhere that could be a different situation entirely.

How long did it take for stormtroopers to inspect the first breach in the hangar bay room? Not until after the firefight in the prison wing raised the alert levels.

Majin Gojira · Post by **Majin Gojira** » 2003-01-23 03:01pm

Now the question is, what if that scenario occurs on DS9? on B5?

Montcalm · Post by **Montcalm** » 2003-01-23 03:05pm

Darth Wong wrote:Let's think about this for a minute: let's suppose the Queen grabs a hundred men. This seems way too high, but just for the sake of argument. Now she's been caught and they know where she is. How the fuck does she plan to stop the Death Star's security forces from rolling into her hideout and turning her into a laboratory experiment? There are MILLIONS of crewers on the Death Star!

Each stormie has acid-resistant body armour and a sidearm that will chew up aliens for breakfast, probably one-shot kills in most cases. The hallways are wide open, with solid bases and ceilings instead of movable metal grate. This is a worst-case scenario for the aliens; they won't be able to stop the Imps from nabbing the Queen, there are no civilians to worry about, and once the Queen and her eggs are gone it's just a matter of mop-up.

Yeah hundreds of stormtroopers shooting that bitch all is left is crap for the clean up droids.

2000AD · Post by **2000AD** » 2003-01-23 03:09pm

Majin Gojira wrote:Now the question is, what if that scenario occurs on DS9? on B5?

Knowing the feds they'd probably try to negotiate with it.

DocHorror · Post by **DocHorror** » 2003-01-23 03:12pm

Yeah, they'll probably have some bullshit about how it has a right to exist & that its only behaving in a natural manner...

B5 will problaby try & exterminate it...

Montcalm · Post by **Montcalm** » 2003-01-23 03:13pm

2000AD wrote:
Majin Gojira wrote:Now the question is, what if that scenario occurs on DS9? on B5?
Knowing the feds they'd probably try to negotiate with it.

Just imagine when the federation negotiator wakes up with a stomach ache and a few seconds after this thing come out.

Post by **Lagmonster** » 2003-01-23 03:20pm

The problem is that in the Star Trek universe, practically every semi-sentient killer race can be negotiated with.

DocMoriartty · Post by **DocMoriartty** » 2003-01-23 03:21pm

Darth Wong wrote:Let's think about this for a minute: let's suppose the Queen grabs a hundred men. This seems way too high, but just for the sake of argument. Now she's been caught and they know where she is. How the fuck does she plan to stop the Death Star's security forces from rolling into her hideout and turning her into a laboratory experiment? There are MILLIONS of crewers on the Death Star!

Each stormie has acid-resistant body armour and a sidearm that will chew up aliens for breakfast, probably one-shot kills in most cases. The hallways are wide open, with solid bases and ceilings instead of movable metal grate. This is a worst-case scenario for the aliens; they won't be able to stop the Imps from nabbing the Queen, there are no civilians to worry about, and once the Queen and her eggs are gone it's just a matter of mop-up.

Aliens are smart though. They do not need light to see and use this to their advantage when they can. They are also incredibly fast in their movement. Marines could kill them with high auto weapons but the average blaster rifle doesnt seem to have that quick a rate of fire. Larger weapons like E-Webs will also have to be used if you plan on easily gunning them down.

In the end the DS is probably too large to take over, it has too big a crew. Though one thought has come to mind. Has anyone done a crew size vs DS size comparison? How many men per square mile are we talking about? Dependin on crew density and internal sensors the longer the Queen is undiscovered the more likely it is she will win. Also what percentage of the DS crew is Stormtrooper?

There is no way to prove one way or another but per the description in the movies of the acid I doubt Trooper armor will stop it. In Alien4 they knew what they were dealing with and still had nothing they were able to amor the cages with to keep the acid from burning through.

Finally there is one more question. What requirements beyond victims do the aliens need? They dont appear to eat or drink. Do they even breath? They had no problem swimming under water for extended periods of time and I don't remember seeing any air bubbles rising from them to suggest they need air. So what is they can survive in a vacuum? Imagine the extra difficulty fighting the aliens will be if they can scamber around on the outside of the Death Star's hull.

Col. Crackpot · Post by **Col. Crackpot** » 2003-01-23 03:22pm

IMHO this is what whould happen

Bab5: it would be a long lurker luncheon! with all of the life forms 'down below' the infestation would be unstoppable by the time security caught on.

DS9: Would fare better than Bab5 i think, but there are still too many life forms coming and going, and not enough time to realize people missing....they would most likely have to abandon the station. although an ODO/Alien battle would be pretty kickass. A ship of the major powers would fare better...better security, fewer civvies. i'd say that would be a 50/50

Death Star: no way...too well organized, no civilians, extremely well armed security. just won't get off the ground

Post by **weemadando** » 2003-01-23 06:11pm

Darth Wong wrote:"TK-421, why aren't you at your post?"

Are you so sure they won't pick up on missing crewmen?

The controllers had a direct line of sight to Mr. 421 and noticed that he wasn't standing outside the Falcon. What happens when the aforementioned Mr.421 is abducted on the other side of the station?

Slartibartfast · Post by **Slartibartfast** » 2003-01-23 06:14pm

To paraphrase Boobyprise: The Next Degradation:

"I am a Mugatu! I will take one-third of your crew and kill them as a sacrifice to my God of Pain and Suffering!"

"Captain, aren't you going to do something?"

"Negative, Number One. StarFleet regulations prohibit that we interfere in local religious customs."

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