SE30E03: Planet Of The Ood [Spoilers]

[Darth Onasi]

It's not like there were any Ood or even any mention of them by the time of the 4th Empire so they'll get over it... and have bigger problems by then.

Also the whole thing would've happened with or without the Doctor as has been pointed out.

[NecronLord]

Frankly I think it's pretty obvious that this isn't necessarily a 'happy ending', and I have no doubt they'll have it bite the Doctor on the ass

It sure as hell isnt a 'happy ending' for the second great and bountify human empire. They just had an entire servent race walk out on them.

Let's be fair. Hundreds of thousands; three galaxy empire. The critter-on-the-street will probably barely notice.

[Stark]

Yeah, the numbers they talk about are quite low, and it's pretty hilariously absurd that they all go through that tiny facility to service 3 galaxies. Since their Super Brain is immortal, perhaps the Ood are very long-lived also, and they've slowly build up a population of some size in the galaxies, but aside from things that rely heavily on Ood (like deep-space exploration missions) I don't think they'll be a problem. If they can't sell Ood for 50 credits (where 5 credits is a software update for the translator, like for a modern GPS) the market is clearly drying up.

I'm actually surprised they stayed with the 'well dressed' Ood from the original, since they scuppered everything else about that portrayl. Surely it'd help the whip-cracking Nazis be evil if they had Mine Worker Ood or whatever? Killing a mining colony that relied on tens of thousands of Ood would be a serious thing.

[Hillary]

The giant brain would be dead without the Doctor. If he hadn't been there, Sigma wouldn't have been able to gain access to warehouse 15 and the detonators would have gone off.

I thought it was quite fun, really. I can't argue with any of the points raised, except to say that the science of DW has always been nonsense. People are very selective over what they feel to be plausable. Time travel? Sure. Telepathy. No problem. People using whips? Ridiculous.

[Zac Naloen]

Yeah, the numbers they talk about are quite low, and it's pretty hilariously absurd that they all go through that tiny facility to service 3 galaxies.

I'm pretty sure it's demonstrated in the episode that they have more than one facility across the three galaxies, but that the one in the show is the "first".

Remember when the doctor pulls up the graphic of the empire?

It shows it there.

[NecronLord]

I'm pretty sure it's demonstrated in the episode that they have more than one facility across the three galaxies, but that the one in the show is the "first".

Remember when the doctor pulls up the graphic of the empire?

It shows it there.

Ood distribution centres. Rather than farms or production plants.

[Darth Onasi]

To be fair the Ood were discovered.. what? 200 years ago? In a millenia old empire? That means there has to be an existing industrial base or other slave races which the Ood were only a suppliment to, being used exclusively for deep space expeditions maybe because of their easy handling.

The giant brain would be dead without the Doctor. If he hadn't been there, Sigma wouldn't have been able to gain access to warehouse 15 and the detonators would have gone off.

Captain Darling went and turned into an Ood though, it's possible he could've been compelled to remove the detonators on his own.

[NecronLord]

It's only 41xx, IIRC. Not necesserily millennia old.

[Darth Onasi]

Really? I always thought Jefferson's "43k 2.1" line concerning Scooti's date of death referred to at least the year 43,000.
Admittedly I missed the first 5 minutes of "Planet of the Ood", was there a date reference there?

[NecronLord]

4126, according to the Doctor. The Empire's dating system might be something else.

[Stark]

I thought it was quite fun, really. I can't argue with any of the points raised, except to say that the science of DW has always been nonsense. People are very selective over what they feel to be plausable. Time travel? Sure. Telepathy. No problem. People using whips? Ridiculous.

Whips... when there's telepathic control right there? Yeah, that's 'forced evilness' from the writer. Just like the 'zomg lobotomy that is plot-useless beyond plucking heartstrings'. This is my issue with the episode: not that it's dumb (but it's really fucking dumb, and I CHALLENGE anyone to come up with another ep with the half-a-dozen dumb as sin shit this ep has) but that it's dumb and SELF-RIGHTEOUS about it's forced, comic-book 'moral' claptrap.

I hear that time travel used as a tool or aliens with telepathy is dumb, like people using whips and being cackling villains for no reason? Remember, this ep is so offensively stupid it says 'loller event from previous episode is impossible that is stupid' and then says 'here is a laundry-list of even stupider, more impossible things that are TOTALLY SENSIBLE'. Immortal brain found in glacier! lololololol.

What's sad is that while I'm a slut for Sontarans, they've never been handled very well, the ep has an awful writer (I'd have said the worst DW writer but then I saw ep 3) and it's got Martha in it. Can the series fail four for four?

[mr friendly guy]

Frankly I think it's pretty obvious that this isn't necessarily a 'happy ending', and I have no doubt they'll have it bite the Doctor on the ass

It sure as hell isnt a 'happy ending' for the second great and bountify human empire. They just had an entire servent race walk out on them.

Well at the start they were having trouble selling the Ood, so either a lot of the empire doesn't need slaves or they have some other means to satisfy that need. I wouldn't be surprise if humans kept non Ood alien slaves not just because of their attitude towards the Ood, but also the racist attitude of Earth empires and their colony offshoots potrayed in the old series ("The mutants", "power of Kroll", "Frontier in space" come to mind).

[Lord Woodlouse]

What's sad is that while I'm a slut for Sontarans, they've never been handled very well, the ep has an awful writer (I'd have said the worst DW writer but then I saw ep 3) and it's got Martha in it. Can the series fail four for four?

Well, this preview seems to think it's more cohesive than previous efforts: http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/cult/a94330 ... tagem.html

I'm still banking on you hating it... but hope springs eternal.

[Zixinus]

I don't care about not giving spoilers. I assume no one will read this tread if they are afraid of spoilers.

I have to agree with Stark: this episode was drop-dead stupid. Evolutionary, the Ood don't make sense. The lobotomy doesn't make sense. The whole "revolution" doesn't make sense.

The worst is, that its preaching to the choir: show me a person on the street that will openly advocate for slavery. In Britain. Show me. Especially considering that now a significant fraction of Britain population is now from ex-Commonwealth countries. I am willing to bet that you will find a good deal of people nostalgic to the Colonial era, because Britan was the most powerful nation in the world back then. But I doubt you will find anybody looking for slavery.

Earlier the Ood were a genetically engineered slave race to do menial jobs. Great. I find robots to be less troublesome but the Ood is also good.

Then why do they suddenly have to have a revolution? When you arrive in a alien place, with an alien setting you see servants. Automatically assuming they are slaves and they need to be freed so they can run wild and naked is not preaching morality: its preaching ignorance of the situation. If every other facts show to this direction then you can go on preaching againts slavery if its slavery. But its not immediately obvious, because obvious is making the clear logical assumption based on clear knowledge. But its the future and your knowledge is none to little.

Of course it turns the revolution is "justified" by bad writing. It's ALWAYS justified because even the APPEARANCE of slavery is bad. The main reason slavery is bad because it enforces sentient, feeling people to live in a horrible life under duress.

If we make a slave from scratch on the other hand, say an Ood-like creature or an android, then this moral problem is removed unless we give these creatures self-awareness and the ability to make their own desires which then starts to make it slavery. It's not slavery where there is no will to brake. Are horses slaves?

And the whole "turning into a Ood" thing. It would have been enough if they just made him telepathically receptive to the Ood song and listen to their agony. But no, they had to make the physically impossible. Again. And with little point. Being the subject of the Ood's song can be torturous enough. Direct telepathic anger can be just punishment enough.

On a less rambling note, the scenes where the Ood fight with the people with guns are awkward. They should be facing a swarm of mindlessly raging Ood instead its just not clear what's really happening.

And does the Doctor has the worst possible luck in the world or what? Can't we have an episode where we see him having fun or showing something interesting for once? It's like every place the Tardis lands in deliberately chosen to be a place of conflict and conspiracy.

Why can't we have some episodes where the Doctor isn't Jesus, instead a person finding himself in the middle of a shit-tornado and just trying to get out alive? Can't he meet up with an old friend without some alien conspiracy going on?

On the other hand, this is the first episode in a while that isn't on Earth. Dammit, I know its a large planet, but we are supposed to have access to the entire universe.

[NecronLord]

The worst is, that its preaching to the choir: show me a person on the street that will openly advocate for slavery. In Britain. Show me. Especially considering that now a significant fraction of Britain population is now from ex-Commonwealth countries. I am willing to bet that you will find a good deal of people nostalgic to the Colonial era, because Britan was the most powerful nation in the world back then. But I doubt you will find anybody looking for slavery.

Thus no one should ever write an adventure story involving slavers?

Earlier the Ood were a genetically engineered slave race

Wherever did you get that idea?

DANNY
Very ood! But handy. They work the mine shafts. All the drilling and stuff. Supervision, and maintenance! They're born for it. Basic slave race.

ROSE
You've got slaves?

SCOOTI (amused)
Don't start - she's like one of that lot. Friends of the Ood.

ROSE (slightly annoyed)
Well maybe I am, yeah. Since when do humans need slaves?

DANNY
But the Ood offer themselves. If you don't give them orders, they just pine away and die.

This hardly suggests that they're an engineered race. They offer themselves, not 'we made them for it.'

Then why do they suddenly have to have a revolution? When you arrive in a alien place, with an alien setting you see servants. Automatically assuming they are slaves and they need to be freed

Is not what the characters did. They came. They saw. They found maltreatment and forced labour. Then they tried to do something. Note that the Doctor's reaction after Impossible Planet wasn't even to immediately follow up on the Ood and find out more - he clearly didn't assume that there was something nefarious going on.

While they could have done the whole thing better, and indeed, left the ood as a curious race of volunteer-slaves (seriously, in whole universe, it's not that unlikely that some race that exists to service others would become sapient; like the many symbiotic life forms on earth) it's hardly as if the Doctor kicked the door of Ood Operations in and shouted "Galactic Patrol! Die slavers!" and slaughtered them all without knowing the situation.

And the whole "turning into a Ood" thing. It would have been enough if they just made him telepathically receptive to the Ood song and listen to their agony. But no, they had to make the physically impossible.

Sorry? That's a lot less physically impossible than, let's see...

1. Telepathy
2. Time Travel.
3. FTL (mind, that does imply time travel)
4. Dimensional trasnscendance (Well, the transcendant bit may not be impossible per se, but it's most certainly clarketech on the same level)

And that's just a few impossible things the Doctor did before breakfast this episode.

They should be facing a swarm of mindlessly raging Ood instead its just not clear what's really happening.

I wouldn't say mindlessly. However, I assume it's like the ewoks. "We won't show the hordes of them that get shot down like dogs, that just happens off camera." In fact, the Ood should have been fighting a lot smarter - using human weapons wherever they could capture them; note that some were supposedly given front line military training. If anything, they should have been fighting far better than the humans - rentacops on an iceball vs professional 'grunts' with no fear and telepathic communications.

A lot of the ood coming out of nowhere can quite easily be justified, too. They're obviously crammed in there like cordwood. There's probably oodles of ood in that facility.

And does the Doctor has the worst possible luck in the world or what? Can't we have an episode where we see him having fun or showing something interesting for once?

To be entirely fair, there was a brief clip of that in Doomsday, I think. With him and rose looking at the planet with the strange flying things...

It's like every place the Tardis lands in deliberately chosen to be a place of conflict and conspiracy.

Why can't we have some episodes where the Doctor isn't Jesus, instead a person finding himself in the middle of a shit-tornado and just trying to get out alive? Can't he meet up with an old friend without some alien conspiracy going on?

Off screen, yes, yes he can. But do you really want to watch 'The Doctor Relaxes?'

On the other hand, this is the first episode in a while that isn't on Earth. Dammit, I know its a large planet, but we are supposed to have access to the entire universe.

Yeah, well, they want to avoid poorly realised alien worlds. Ostensibly - they fucked that up this week badly. Seriously. Modern shipping containers? Mesh wire? G36s everywhere? At least The Long Game included one laser gun.

There wasn't even a damn hologram at any point!

[Zixinus]

Thus no one should ever write an adventure story involving slavers?

Sure, just don't preach about it. Or if you do, at least make a more profound point then "oh noez slavery is evil!!!!!!". Otherwise its just boring and infinitely predictable.

Wherever did you get that idea?

It was implied. It was not clearly stated, yes I know.

The "they offer themselves" can mean that they are made to not have a will of their own. It isn't necessary for humans to make them.

For all we could have known before this episode, they were the keepers of an extinct race and the Ood were keeping the whole civilization nice and tidy, and they had no objection againts switching to a live master. Just a random idea.

Sorry? That's a lot less physically impossible than, let's see...

My gist isn't that its physically impossible: my gist that its unnecessary. You need FTL and time travel for the basis of the premise of the whole story. You "need" telepathy because its a damn good plot device and because its appealing. And in this episode, its needed for the plot. Turning the badguy into an Ood was unnecessary.

If you are going to break the laws of physics then be more gentle about it or do it when it really needs to be done. Don't do it for the sake of it.

[NecronLord]

Turning the badguy into an Ood was unnecessary.

But interesting. It entertained (and indeed, made me think about it for a bit) me, and that is the ultimate objective of the show.

If you are going to break the laws of physics then be more gentle about it

No laws of physics are actually broken there you know. CHON is reconfigured into other CHON over a period of time. Hardly impossible. It rapes biology, it doesn't rape physics.

[Stark]

The transformation of that guy was RETARDED. He'd been dosed up for some time with Ood magic crap, and somehow hadn't noticed that his skull had reconfigured, throat full of tentacles etc until the last dose, which coincidentally was at the climax of the show. It was more simplistic 'ultimate punishment for slavers is to become a slave' nonsense. Unless you think the entire transformation happened in the few seconds we saw, in which case Ood bio-magic is apparently pretty awesome because he didn't die or even bleed.

I'm glad to see I'm not the only one for whom 'interesting spin on slavery' scifi race being rebooted into 'lolololol slavery BAAAAD' black/white was disappointing. Could have raised interesting questions or even explored the original premise... nah... Nazis are better. Make the guards insane, too, in case the audience is dumb.

Woodlouse, I really, really want to like the next episode. It just seem like the universe is stacking against it at this point.

[NecronLord]

The transformation of that guy was RETARDED.

Retarded, yes, physically impossible, no. It's rape of biology, not physics.

[Zixinus]

That's not the point. The point was that it was stupid. It would have been more then enough to just make the guy receptive to the Ood's song and let them order him around.

[mr friendly guy]

Unless you think the entire transformation happened in the few seconds we saw, in which case Ood bio-magic is apparently pretty awesome because he didn't die or even bleed.

Obviously its the same magic device which allows a tall English man with blond hair to change into a shorter Scottish man with brown hair.

Or perhaps the same device which allows a human to grow a freaking gas in place of his face.

The Ood obvious have similar technology to Time Lords and the Chula (that was sarcasm, just in case any one missed it).


That being said I feel it would be better is such "magic" transfiguration tech be just the province of the advance races, and not a slave race who as far as I can tell aren't as advance as the humans enslaving them.

The changing the guy into an Ood was visually entertaining (although not as good as the empty child transformations) but seemed a bit over elaborate as opposed to say poisoning him with a slow acting poison. I suppose to keep the visual effects you could write it as an illusion from the Hive brain with the Ood feeding him drugs which make him more vulnerable to its telepathy.

[Darth Onasi]

If they had to do the Ood transformation, I would've done something like when Darling pushes Dr. Nutball over the ledge, he accidentally falls in with him, both get absorbed then rebirthed as Ood.
Probably wouldn't make much sense either, but wouldn't look so utterly silly to me.

[Stark]

Uh, the exposition (ps the epsiode was 80% exposition) claimed that it was merely introducing a substance into his body. Claiming it's an illusion is simply retarded. If he was just taken over by the immortal man-eating brain that'd be far less stupid, but he clearly choked up tentacles that didn't exist 10 seconds ago. Of course, it is post-4000, so it's possible that kind of tech could be around (although how a race of lobotomised telepathic zombies came by it is another story, the description implied to me that it was something innate to Ood bio-whatsit) but ol' Tim was completely flabbergasted by it.

Saying it messes with biology and not physics is irrelevant and not even a rebuttal. It was stupid, just like the rest of the episode. I'm not even hugely concerned with the complete absurdity of the transformation, but the dramatic conceit is just juvenile. Now he's a slave, gettit? It's karma! KARMA ON A NUCLEAR MISSILE OF SUBTLETY.

Sorry, when an episode is simultaneously full of stupid crap and crushingly pretentious and preachy, it fails. BTW, immortal brains in holes in ice = totally plausible, did you know that? What's it even fucking eat? MAGIC. Ood BIO TISSUE. YOUR MUM.

[NecronLord]

Stark. Not for the first time... what the fuck are you on?

[Stark]

I'm sick of stupid crap? Oh damn, my crimes must be stopped! Remember when they could write an episode about paradox-eating dragons in the 80s that wasn't shit? What happened to that? This premise was preconfigured gold, and they turned it to crap.