The Interventionist Spirit in Fundies

[darthbob88]

This puzzles the hell out of me. If memory serves, Islam and Christianity have scriptures to the effect that the judgement of man is irrelevant, and that God is the only one fit to lay down the law. Thus, you get saints who were martyred for their cause; despite being killed by the governments on earth, or by mobs bent on slaughter, they are revered as symbols of God. With that in mind, why do fundamentalists seem so hellbound on making the world as they think it should be, prohibiting homosexuality, women's rights, etc, etc? Surely if any peoples strayed from the one true path to God, they would be smote down for their arrogance, with or without the interventions of warriors for God. As one comic put it, I hope they speak Norwegian in Hell. Quite simply, what leads these people to believe that they are qualified to do God's work on Earth?

[Kanastrous]

Hubris.

[Turin]

In The God Delusion, Dawkins makes an interesting if slightly tongue-in-cheek observation that the God of Abraham has a rather nasty habit of "smiting" entire cities for the sins of their inhabitants. And seeing as how we've had assholes like Falwell (?) and his ilk say things like "God punished New Orleans with a hurricane because it is a den of sin," it could be argued that proselytizing is a perverse form of self-defense. God doesn't worry too much about collateral damage.

But I personally think Dawkins was a little generous in assuming that level of thought. The trouble with Darth Bob's argument is that it assumes that religious people actually follow their scriptures to their logical conclusions (inasmuch as that's even possible). Which as we know is usually horseshit. So we can instead explain their behavior as the same primitive fear-based tribalistic motivations that generates nationalism, racism, etc.

[darthbob88]

In The God Delusion, Dawkins makes an interesting if slightly tongue-in-cheek observation that the God of Abraham has a rather nasty habit of "smiting" entire cities for the sins of their inhabitants. And seeing as how we've had assholes like Falwell (?) and his ilk say things like "God punished New Orleans with a hurricane because it is a den of sin," it could be argued that proselytizing is a perverse form of self-defense. God doesn't worry too much about collateral damage.

You mean they do things like this to keep God from smiting the area around them? That's a helluva deity, if it won't take action to avoid hurting its worshippers.

But I personally think Dawkins was a little generous in assuming that level of thought. The trouble with Darth Bob's argument is that it assumes that religious people actually follow their scriptures to their logical conclusions (inasmuch as that's even possible). Which as we know is usually horseshit. So we can instead explain their behavior as the same primitive fear-based tribalistic motivations that generates nationalism, racism, etc.

Ah, yes, the good old "He's different from us, kill him" response.

I noticed another little incongruity there; God is, allegedly, powerful enough to smite down anybody who displeased him, including atheists, homosexuals, etc. Not only should it be presumptuous of the fundies to act against the ungodly, it should be unnecessary. Or is God less omnipotent than he is said to be?

[apocolypse]

Quite simply, what leads these people to believe that they are qualified to do God's work on Earth?

IIRC it's an interpretation of Biblical verses. I know one for instance has to do with Christians being the "light of the world" and "salt of the Earth" (pretty much meaning set at good example for others to follow). Plus, I believe that it also says to "preach the word", at least in certain versions it does. So, all of that combined means pretty much to teach the non-believers about God and why they should come to know Him as well. Something to that effect.

[Alerik the Fortunate]

It basically boils down to most believers not fully understanding what they believe, and the belief system evolving over time into the form that best propagates itself and the hierarchy that develops around it. Unbelievers are a threat to that system, so religions must develop ways to neutralize them; hypocrisy and contradiction have never been and never will be obstacles.

[Turin]

You mean they do things like this to keep God from smiting the area around them? That's a helluva deity, if it won't take action to avoid hurting its worshippers.[/color]
Well, this is the same deity that (allegedly) annihilated two entire cities because they liked buttsex, turned a woman to salt for looking at it, destroyed all of humanity and most of the animals in a fit of pique, killed all the firstborn children of Eygpt, etc, etc.

IIRC it's an interpretation of Biblical verses. I know one for instance has to do with Christians being the "light of the world" and "salt of the Earth" (pretty much meaning set at good example for others to follow). Plus, I believe that it also says to "preach the word", at least in certain versions it does. So, all of that combined means pretty much to teach the non-believers about God and why they should come to know Him as well. Something to that effect.

Well this is sort of why Islam and Christianity are more "successful" than, say, Judaism... the memeplex contains strong "copy me" memes.

[Turin]

Crap, that was supposed to be preview not submit. In addition to my fucked up tag, I wanted to add that the whole idea that religion has to be particularly self-consistent isn't really useful. Religion isn't consistent with reality, so there's always going to be these sorts of "why do they think that" questions.

I find if you look at religion like a sort of mental virus, you can use that to explain the "why do they think that" questions -- religious people think XYZ because if they didn't their religion would be less successful at spreading in its particular environment.

[Kanastrous]

Sure, religions propagate like diseases.

Not many diseases as cumulatively lethal, though.

[Patrick Degan]

You mean they do things like this to keep God from smiting the area around them? That's a helluva deity, if it won't take action to avoid hurting its worshippers.

Well, this is the same deity that (allegedly) annihilated two entire cities because they liked buttsex, turned a woman to salt for looking at it, destroyed all of humanity and most of the animals in a fit of pique, killed all the firstborn children of Eygpt, etc, etc.

He's managed to kill just about everyone else,
but like a poor marksman, He keeps. Missing. The Target.

[Darth Servo]

The answer is simple. Its the same reason GWB invaded Iraq. They think God told them to.

[PainRack]

It seems to me that the issue is they "think" they're trying to save you. Preaching the Gospel is just one form of salvation, cause you are doomed unless you accept Jesus Christ.

But even so, SIN in its many forms may cause you to turn away from Christ word and insert religious bullshit here. Therefore, all christians must fight SIN, so as to protect christians and even non believers

[Alerik the Fortunate]

This is true; for the greater good, including that of the damned, all temptation to unbelief or sinful action must be eliminated in the fundie mindset. Therefore, your right to think and do as you please is overridden by their right to be free of temptation to do other than they believe they should.

[SirNitram]

Too much religion in these answers.

Thes epeople simply want everyone to be like them because they're xenophobic. Religion is a papering-over of the naked conformism.

[Darth Wong]

There's some real truth to that, but there's also some validity to the "temptation" argument. Christian mythology is obsessed with temptation; the concept of sin and temptation runs intermittently through the entire Bible. They have a lot of pent-up urges, and they are angry at society for "tempting" them. It's one of the reasons that fundies are so upset by pornography, revealing clothes, and pictures of little boys.

[Ryan Thunder]

Too much religion in these answers.

Thes epeople simply want everyone to be like them because they're xenophobic. Religion is a papering-over of the naked conformism.

Not for me. What you do is your business and none of mine. I might say I feel uncomfortable about something you do, once, but that'll be the end of it.