nBSG 403 "The Ties that Bind"

[Steven Snyder]

Further thoughts on the ep...

At first I was angry...in BSG Final Season - Cylon Airlocks YOU!
Tory killed Cally, and did so with such bone-chilling intent. She didn't seem to enjoy it or find distaste in it, she spaced Cally with about the same feeling as Roslin's cylon spacing...odd symmetry.

It would be morally black and white if Cally had been running to tell Adama what she saw, and Tory murdered her. But the reality of the situation was far more grey than that.

Based on an overheard conversation, Cally decides that her husband is a cylon. She ignores the fact that there is already a cylon serving with distinction in the fleet, and decides the best course of action would be to grab a large wrench to brain her husband, and airlock her child and herself.
Tory interceded and saved Nicholas from certain death, but made sure that Cally followed through in her 'plan'.

So I am struggling with the Moral Question of what Tory did...

The newfound cylon had three options for dealing with the Cally situation.

1. Do nothing, both Cally and Nick die.

2. Save only Nick, but dispose of Cally.

3. Save both Nick and Cally.

Now on the surface #3 seems the most moral choice, but is it?

What happens when the fleet finds out that the XO of Galactica, the President's Aide, the chief engineer over BSG flight ops are cylons and have been from the start?
Colonel Tigh is Adama's closest and oldest friend, not to mention a regular on the bridge and has even been in command of the Galactica and the resistance on New Caprica. People are going to utterly freak out if they find out he is a cylon, people are going to question every military decision that has been made since the initial attacks on the colonies. Hell, is it any coincidence that the Galactica survived and had a cylon for the XO? Is William Adama a cylon too, a sympathizer?
Tory is the top advisor to the President of the Colonies, like Tigh she is at the very top of the food chain, but on the civilian side. Critics and opponents of the president will rip her to pieces in moments, ending her presidency and perhaps fatally wounding the colonial government.
What becomes of the fleet now?

Cally's death was tragic, but what was Tory supposed to do?

[Lonestar]

Based on an overheard conversation, Cally decides that her husband is a cylon. She ignores the fact that there is already a cylon serving with distinction in the fleet, and decides the best course of action would be to grab a large wrench to brain her husband, and airlock her child and herself.
Tory interceded and saved Nicholas from certain death, but made sure that Cally followed through in her 'plan'.

Cally reminded me a bit of those 3-nothings(most often female) who had some kind of severe emotional baggage. We already know that she was a loon when she killed a prisoner and later when she got the hots for a guy that beat the tar out of her(I know it's more complicated than that, but still).

Add in the "normal" stress of the flgiht from the Culons and day-to-day life, I'm surprised something like this hasn't happened sooner.

[FSTargetDrone]

It would be morally black and white if Cally had been running to tell Adama what she saw, and Tory murdered her. But the reality of the situation was far more grey than that.

Based on an overheard conversation, Cally decides that her husband is a cylon. She ignores the fact that there is already a cylon serving with distinction in the fleet, and decides the best course of action would be to grab a large wrench to brain her husband, and airlock her child and herself.

Not only does she get the shock of her life that her husband is a Cylon, but she (Cally) is now suspicious that the ship's second-in-command is a Cylon, the President's close aide is a Cylon and that her child is part-Cylon. That's a lot of shit to deal with, with the complication of the drug use and overall stress and anguish, as Lonestar says.

Who else is a Cylon, she may wonder? For all she know, Adama may be one.

[Steven Snyder]

A bit of odd speculation here.

Brother Cavil...wow what a neat character.

Anyhoo, notice how he seems to be involved in some aspect with each of the Final Five so far?

Anders - Who was it that came out of the clearing when the cylons abandoned their attack on the resistance? There he was, claiming it was a 'miracle'. Their reaction and brining him with them to Galactica seems to indicate he was known to the group.

Tigh - Who was it that was interrogating him? Yeah Brother Cavil again.

Tyrol - In an ironic twist it was Tyrol who came to Brother Cavil because of recurrent nightmares that he was a Cylon.

Tori - Okay, I have nothing here. Maybe I missed an episode, maybe I am wrong. Tori did come out of the shadows, there is a chance they met in the past.


I know that this may be a coincidence, but for someone that says he doesn't know where the Final Five are...he sure has plenty of face-time with them.

[Thanas]

^The same applies to Caprica, Athena and Dovall as well.

[tim31]

You're on the right track here. I feel strongly Cavil knows who they are; otherwise he wouldn't be getting his back up so much about it. It means either they are a threat to him(less likely, otherwise he would have taken steps to eliminate them), or they are part of his overall plan. I suspect he will be the one to reveal the final cylon.

[Steven Snyder]

You're on the right track here. I feel strongly Cavil knows who they are; otherwise he wouldn't be getting his back up so much about it. It means either they are a threat to him(less likely, otherwise he would have taken steps to eliminate them), or they are part of his overall plan. I suspect he will be the one to reveal the final cylon.

You mention them being a threat to him...

Cavil is the one to actually 'box' the 3's for searching out the Final Five by repeatedly. Doesn't Cavil have issues with ressurecting...getting harder and harder each time? One wonders if Deanna wasn't the first down this path...

When a raider recognizes a Final Fiver in the Fleet, Cavil vehemently denies they are in the fleet (despite having no evidence for this) and suggests the raiders be lobotomized so they will continue to attack.

Yeah, it seems clear. Cavil knows the Final Five are in the fleet and wants them eliminated or contained. Maybe for Cavil, New Caprica wasn't about the humans at all, it was a prison for the Final Five.
This kinda makes sense...the execution order that Baltar 'signed'...
They put Cally on the list but not Tyrol, and not Tigh either? They knew he was the resistance leader...but didn't put him on the list. They get the former president and vp...but not the right-hand of Roslin, Tory.

Cavil was pretty gung-ho about 'reducing the human population to a more manageable level'. But when he had Tigh, the leader of the resistance in a cell, knowing full well he was guilty...he just let him go.

Brother Cavil knows a lot more than he is letting on, and he is manipulating the rest of the cylons to his own ends.

[Gaidin]

They put Cally on the list but not Tyrol, and not Tigh either? They knew he was the resistance leader...but didn't put him on the list. They get the former president and vp...but not the right-hand of Roslin, Tory.

I've got no reason for not having Tyrol on TheList(R), but not having Tigh on the list is easily defensible by the fact that he's trying to use Ellen as an in to the Resistance via Saul. If he kills either Tigh, both are dead weight in intelligence gathering on the resistance.

[Anguirus]

You're on the right track here. I feel strongly Cavil knows who they are; otherwise he wouldn't be getting his back up so much about it. It means either they are a threat to him(less likely, otherwise he would have taken steps to eliminate them), or they are part of his overall plan. I suspect he will be the one to reveal the final cylon.

Ron Moore did say that he thinks of Cavil as the "secret keeper" of the Cylons. Very interesting...

[Coyote]

Cavil, on New Caprica, was indeed keeping a close eye on the final five (or at least final 4 that were now known to be on hand), and he also manipulated Ellen Tigh into giving himself additional information as well.

I've been watching the series from the start recently, and with context a few things stand out.

I don't believe Adama is a Cylon, but Moore does give some reasons to keep one guessing. For example, Adama, back on Kobol, saw New Sharon and attacked her, trying to strangle her-- but suddenly couldn't. Was it really his still-weak heart after surgery? Or some other... command?
And it was Adama's idea that Tigh go down to live on New Caprica, when before he'd been reluctant to leave the ship.

With Tyrol, the episode in which he flipped out and punched Cally-- it reminded me of the early Season 1 scenes where Boomer would wake up, twitching and confused, after having "blanked out" and done some Cylon mission (ie, set the charges in the water tanks).

And as for Starbuck, I don't think she was a Cylon, but she may be now (a Cylon replacement of Starbuck).

There's been some great muddying of the waters, though-- Baltar wants to be a Cylon but isn't; Ellen didn't want to be a Cylon but was such a useful tool for them it's hard to imagine she wasn't... heh.

[Spanky The Dolphin]

I would not be at all surprised if Cavil did know the identities of the Final Five.

Something I've picked up on in these first few episodes is that Number One often assumes the role of a "leader" of the Humanoid Cylons by default. What I'm not sure about is whether that was the model's purpose, if it's a coincidence, or if Cavil simply assumes it purely due to entitlement by being the "oldest" or "first."

[FSTargetDrone]

I don't believe Adama is a Cylon, but Moore does give some reasons to keep one guessing.

I don't either, if that was what came across in my last post above. I was just speculating that Cally, having seen a high-ranking officer unknowingly reveal his true identity to her, couldn't be sure that others in Command could be Cylons as well. If she thought someone like her Admiral, her leader was a Cylon, it might have helped push her to such a drastic decision.

[RogueIce]

My big question is, if the Raiders could ID one of the Final Five from inside a Viper cockpit, how come Boomer and Athena never noticed? Cavill might or might not know, but how come the Sharons never did?

[Spanky The Dolphin]

Maybe it's something the Raiders can do but the Humanoid Cylons can't.

[Thanas]

Is it stated that they saw the final five? It may just as well have been a cylon friend-or-foe challenge.

[RogueIce]

Is it stated that they saw the final five? It may just as well have been a cylon friend-or-foe challenge.

Maybe. The point is, why could a Raider do it and the humanforms seemingly can't? They can already tell each "person" in a model apart.

Seems odd that'd be something the Raiders (and maybe Centurions? Dunno if they ran across the Final Five on New Caprica or not) could do, but human-forms can't.

[The Yosemite Bear]

is it just ironic that the whole new caprica "resistance" was run by cylons?

[Thanas]

Is it stated that they saw the final five? It may just as well have been a cylon friend-or-foe challenge.

Maybe. The point is, why could a Raider do it and the humanforms seemingly can't? They can already tell each "person" in a model apart.

Seems odd that'd be something the Raiders (and maybe Centurions? Dunno if they ran across the Final Five on New Caprica or not) could do, but human-forms can't.

Well, I could try and rationalize it by saying that a) this is the first time the five were "activated", maybe the thing was dormant before? or b) Raiders and centurions are way more likely to go into combat. The humanoids...not that much, so IFF may not be that huge an issue.

[Gil Hamilton]

Maybe it's something the Raiders can do but the Humanoid Cylons can't.

It is also possible that Anders himself sent the Raider a recognition code when his eyes flashed. If he had did it to humanoid Cylons, they may well have recognized him too.

[Spanky The Dolphin]

Maybe it's something the Raiders can do but the Humanoid Cylons can't.

It is also possible that Anders himself sent the Raider a recognition code when his eyes flashed.

Yeah, remembering it again, I think that's really what the progression of the scene implies.

[Coyote]

My big question is, if the Raiders could ID one of the Final Five from inside a Viper cockpit, how come Boomer and Athena never noticed? Cavill might or might not know, but how come the Sharons never did?

The "recognition code" may have been dormant until they realized their true nature. Although at the same time I am tempted to think that there may be some sort of unknown recognition code also, since Anders was the lead dude of the Resistance back on original Caprica, and managed to do well against the Cylons for some months...

[Gaidin]

The other catch is that Anders is the first cylon we've seen confirmed able to communicate his nature without one of those cylon transponders. Likely the other three are able to as well, but there's been no hint of the seven having that ability since they specifically made a point to carry those things around all the time.

[RedImperator]

Something I wonder about Tory and her apparent turn to evil: did she off Cally because now that she's realized what she is, her Cylon nature is manifesting itself (the same way Anders sent the Raiders away), or is Tory just an already-ruthless person (watch her in her early episodes; she could be a Clinton advisor if she were whinier and less competent) who has lost her conscience as a psychological side effect of realizing her enitre life is a lie.

[Gaidin]

Something I wonder about Tory and her apparent turn to evil: did she off Cally because now that she's realized what she is, her Cylon nature is manifesting itself (the same way Anders sent the Raiders away), or is Tory just an already-ruthless person (watch her in her early episodes; she could be a Clinton advisor if she were whinier and less competent) who has lost her conscience as a psychological side effect of realizing her enitre life is a lie.

She is a helluva lot more ruthless than billy in the political arena so I think she's more pragmatic than 'evil' regarding this. Her actions in that episode, from a certain point of view, were really a matter of self-preservation. Cally knows their secret and us unstable to the point they can't trust her to accept a deal. There's no telling what she would do. To a total self-preservationist, it honestly seems the best option, to cut her off if there's a way to do it without getting caught.

[Thanas]

Tory was willing to comitt treason in order to prevent a politician from getting elected.

Killing a paranoid rascist who just tried to off her child because she was of the same race and who basked in the "glory" of shooting a harmless prisoner because she was the same as Tory...a sleeper agent...is probably not even on the samel level.