Obama joins the rest: Vaccine-autism link

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TheKwas
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Obama joins the rest: Vaccine-autism link

Post by TheKwas »

No matter who wins in Pennsylvania today, the next President of the United States will support research into the growing evidence of some link between vaccines and autism.

Senator John McCain has already expressed his belief that vaccines and the mercury containing preservative thimerosal could be implicated in what he has rightly termed an "autism epidemic."

Senator Hillary Clinton, in response to a questionnaire from the autism activist group A-CHAMP, wrote that she was "Committed to make investments to find the causes of autism, including possible environmental causes like vaccines." And when asked if she would support a study of vaccinated vs. unvaccinated children, she said: "Yes. We don't know what, if any, kind of link there is between vaccines and autism - but we should find out."

And now, yesterday, at a rally in Pennsylvania, Barack Obama had this rather surprising thing to say:

"We've seen just a skyrocketing autism rate. Some people are suspicious that it's connected to the vaccines. This person included. The science right now is inconclusive, but we have to research it."
(Note: The Washington Post reports that when Obama said "this person," he pointed to someone who had asked an autism question).

So there you have it, our next President will share the views of such radical fringe crazies as, well, me, Democrat Robert Kennedy, Jr., Republican Joe Scarborough, former NIH and Red Cross chief Bernadine Healy, and several researchers at Harvard, Johns Hopkins, the Universities of California and Washington and elsewhere.

All of us agree: Current evidence suggests the need for more reseach into whether vaccines could be a contributing factor in some cases of autism.

And yes, now the comments to this piece will come flying in, repeating the tired mantra that "this case is closed," that vaccines and thimerosal have been "completely vindicated," and that people like me are just trying to scare the public and drive them away from vaccines, leaving their children vulnerable and sick.

Of course, none of the above is true. So stay tuned.

To begin with, government researchers are currently looking into a number of factors that may trigger autism, including vaccines, their ingredients and the crowded vaccine schedule itself.

Secondly, on April 11th, I attended a top-level meeting in Washington where vaccine safety officials discussed all of the above issues, and more. Now, included on the CDC's recommended Federal Research Agenda for vaccine safety, are questions such as:

Can vaccines cause neurodevelopmental disorders, such as autism?

Can vaccines in children with mitochondrial dysfunction cause significant "neurological deterioration?"

Can the combination live-virus measles, mumps and rubella vaccine cause seizures and long term damage in children?

Can vaccines cause autoimmune disease?

Can thimerosal cause tics or Tourette syndrome?

Can attenuated viruses in vaccines cause asthma in children?


So, no matter who is President next year, top government researchers will be examining the role of vaccines in autism and other childhood illnesses. Thus, the declarations of McCain, Clinton and now Obama, make good scientific sense.

But there is more.

Dozens of autism cases (and perhaps more) currently filed in so-called Vaccine Court will almost certainly be compensated this year. Why? Because a little girl named Hannah Poling with a supposedly rare mitochondrial condition was recently compensated for her own vaccine injuries, including autism and epilepsy.

But I have personally identified at least a dozen (and there are reports of many more) children with cases in the court who meet the exact same medical criteria as Hannah, and whose cases will almost surely be compensated as well -- each time with the attendant media fanfare.

My prediction is that, by Election Day, few Americans will still believe there is absolutely no evidence to link vaccines to at least some cases of regressive autism.

So the remarks by all three candidates not only reflect good science, they reflect good politics as well.
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I looked and didn't see any thread that seemed to be on this topic.

I know it's not a direct endorsement for the Vaccine-Autism link, and he probably had to do it for political reasons, but I still figured Obama wouldn't take such a link seriously.
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Post by Cairber »

I would actually like there to be a be all and end all research project on this topic. I'd like to be able to throw it in the faces of those claiming the link over and over. I don't know exactly what it would have to look like, but the typical rant from the anti vaccine side is "there has never been a study that looked at completely unvaccinated vs vaccinated kids" or something like that. So, I would assume that aspect would have to be in there somewhere.
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Post by bilateralrope »

How much would a study to determine if there is a correlation between autism and vaccines cost ?
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Post by Fire Fly »

How strong is this issue with mothers? There seems to be a growing movement from mothers about this issue. Its a pity to see Obama take that position but he'll look like a mom hater if he doesn't, now that McSame and Hitlery have.
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Post by Alyrium Denryle »

bilateralrope wrote:How much would a study to determine if there is a correlation between autism and vaccines cost ?
In the broad scheme of things? Not much. But it would take a while, and would require pouring over anonymous medical records
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Post by TheKwas »

There have already been numerous studies on the issue and they all indicate that there simply is no correlation between Vaccinations and Autism, and the more press this issue gets the more likely parents are going to distrust vaccinations.
No Link Between MMR Vaccine and Autism
A large, nationwide cohort study reaffirms the absence of any correlation between vaccine and the condition.


Although virtually no data indicate an association between the measles, mumps, and rubella (MMR) vaccine and autism, speculation persists. These investigators used national registry data in Denmark to evaluate whether MMR-vaccination status was related to diagnoses of autism and other autistic-spectrum disorders (ASDs) in children born from January 1, 1991, through December 31, 1998.

Of the 537,303 children in the cohort, 440,655 (82%) received the MMR vaccine. Autism was diagnosed in 263 vaccinated children (5.9%) and 53 unvaccinated children (5.4%); ASD was diagnosed in 345 vaccinated children (7.8%) and 77 unvaccinated children (7.9%). After adjustment for potential confounders, the risks for autism and ASDs were similar in vaccinated and unvaccinated children (relative risks, 0.92 for autism; 0.83 for ASDs).

Comment: Short of a randomized clinical trial, which is unlikely to occur, this nationwide cohort study provides the best confirmation that there is no association between MMR vaccination and autism or ASDs. These data are critical in our campaign to boost public confidence in the MMR vaccine.

— Howard Bauchner, MD

Published in Journal Watch Pediatrics and Adolescent Medicine November 25, 2002
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Post by Cairber »

Fire Fly wrote:How strong is this issue with mothers? There seems to be a growing movement from mothers about this issue. Its a pity to see Obama take that position but he'll look like a mom hater if he doesn't, now that McSame and Hitlery have.
The vaccine issue is all over parenting message boards and the internet. The AAP has actually released a guide for doctors on how to handle parents who are questioning vaccination. Lots of big names in parenting literature (like Dr Sears) are writing books and guides on the subject now. There is always at least one article on the subject in the mainstream parenting mags every month (at least the ones I get).

So he could very well be trying to placate a growing number of parents thinking about this issue.
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Post by Mr Bean »

Cairber wrote:I would actually like there to be a be all and end all research project on this topic. I'd like to be able to throw it in the faces of those claiming the link over and over. I don't know exactly what it would have to look like, but the typical rant from the anti vaccine side is "there has never been a study that looked at completely unvaccinated vs vaccinated kids" or something like that. So, I would assume that aspect would have to be in there somewhere.
From my memory there have been four major studies about this very specific subject, one major study conducted in 2006 which the protocols were in part written by Autism believers and hailed as the study to end everything.


Except as expected when the study failed to find any connection at all, the Autism people demanded their names be removed from the study.

Look, it's fucking bullshit pure and simple, if you think Vaccinations cause Autism at best your ignorant, at second best your a denier, and in all other cases your a fucking moron.

Pure and fucking simple if you want to show Vaccination causes autism you need to figure out why, and if you don't know and none of the chemicals you pick as possible causes pan out, or in mercury's cases we removed and autism was unchanged... well at some point you have to accept the much more likely answer, and that it's genetic in nearly all cases fucking deal with it.

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Post by Galvatron »

bilateralrope wrote:How much would a study to determine if there is a correlation between autism and vaccines cost ?
Probably less than what we're already shelling out to preach abstinance.
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Post by Sea Skimmer »

bilateralrope wrote:How much would a study to determine if there is a correlation between autism and vaccines cost ?
That dependents entirely on how exhaustive a job you want to do. For example, we can do a quick cheap study right now. I’ve been vaccinated, I’m betting you have too and as far as I’m aware neither of us has autism, so study concluded, zero link between vaccines and autism in the studied subjects! Now if you want to go follow 15,000 kids from birth to age 20, recording and validating vaccination records and giving each child a mental examination several times to check for autism, while also accounting for environmental and socio-economic factors… that’s going to cost more.
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Post by Knife »

Correlation does not equal causation. Any study will have to account for the fact that most kids get vaccinations at various ages up to 5 years old and the signs for autism surface in that time period. Hello? Can we make arguments about ice cream causing autism?
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Post by Admiral Valdemar »

This has hurt my view of Obama I have to say. This bullshit needs to end NOW. Paranoid parents != immunologists.
Last edited by Admiral Valdemar on 2008-04-24 08:29am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Darth Onasi »

This is pandering, pure and simple. Can't say I'm really surprised, Obama may seem better than the other politicians but in the end he's still a politician.
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Post by Dartzap »

The man behind the scare over here has been thoroughly discredited by the General Medical Councils and other studies for his research methods, I fail to see why this is still an issue here or in the US.
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Post by Edi »

Dartzap wrote:The man behind the scare over here has been thoroughly discredited by the General Medical Councils and other studies for his research methods, I fail to see why this is still an issue here or in the US.
Because people are fucking morons, is why.
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Post by Illuminatus Primus »

The process of political whoring in our society has gotten this bad? You can't say, "this is a crazy pseudoscientific hypothesis" because there are causes with Moms who vote on the issue?
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Post by Fire Fly »

Illuminatus Primus wrote:The process of political whoring in our society has gotten this bad? You can't say, "this is a crazy pseudoscientific hypothesis" because there are causes with Moms who vote on the issue?
The media will make you look like an arrogant, elitist asshole if you go against the soccer moms. If Obama says "No, its just pseudoscience, the scientific community has emphatically said that there is no link between autism and vaccines," Hillary will pounce and the media will follow with more cries of elitism.
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Post by SirNitram »

Fire Fly wrote:
Illuminatus Primus wrote:The process of political whoring in our society has gotten this bad? You can't say, "this is a crazy pseudoscientific hypothesis" because there are causes with Moms who vote on the issue?
The media will make you look like an arrogant, elitist asshole if you go against the soccer moms. If Obama says "No, its just pseudoscience, the scientific community has emphatically said that there is no link between autism and vaccines," Hillary will pounce and the media will follow with more cries of elitism.
They'll ask why Obama wants your kids to get autism. They'll hype the growing Spectrum rate as full blown Autism. Ben Stein will get media appearances where he'll prove this is more of the evil conspiracy by evilutionists.
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Post by Ubiquitous »

The next time someone tells me that Obama is special because he is 'different' to other politicians, I will point to this thread.

All three of the cocksuckers are fucking retards for buying into this shit. It has been utterly discredited by scientists in the UK - shame the three most powerful people in America are still stuck in the dark ages.
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Post by Ghost Rider »

Ubiquitous wrote:The next time someone tells me that Obama is special because he is 'different' to other politicians, I will point to this thread.

All three of the cocksuckers are fucking retards for buying into this shit. It has been utterly discredited by scientists in the UK - shame the three most powerful people in America are still stuck in the dark ages.
Wow, so one point makes him as bad as the others?

I'm glad you're here to give us a prime example of slippery slope, so when we need an example we can point to this thread.

So anything else to the discussion or are you enjoying your bit of ranting?
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Post by lordofFNORD »

Ubiquitous wrote:The next time someone tells me that Obama is special because he is 'different' to other politicians, I will point to this thread.
He also eats, breathes, and shits, just like other politicians. The fact that he is the same in some ways, doesn't mean he isn't different and better in others.

I don't think anyone is claiming he is immune to special interest pressure on minor issues. The way he caved on ethanol proved that already. I'd much rather spend several million dollars searching for an autism-vaccine link that isn't there than several hundred billion dollars and several thousand lives searching for WMDs that don't exist.
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Post by Ubiquitous »

Obviously this issue is smaller in America than it is over here in Britain considering that apologists such as Ghost Rider are willing to overlook it so readily. Over here there have been huge scandals involving the issue in recent years. Right wing scare newspapers such as the Daily Mail absolutely love to pretend that there is a link to autism. I was delighted when scientists came out and called the bullshit on it. I remember a BBC parorama show [which I assume Vlad has also watched considering his reaction] with some 'experts' a few years back talking about the possible link ... 'experts' funded by religious groups and right wing retards.

I could totally understand McCain having to preach to the fundies about this one, and Hillary because she is a moron and appeals to morons: but I thought Obama was above this shit? If it truly is a minor issue in the US, then fine, just pretend it doesn't exist and move on if it is potentially going to cost Obama the White House: but for those of us in enlightened parts of the world, such as the UK, it is a cockpunch for the future most powerful person on the planet to go down the fundie route and claim that there might be a link, ignoring what the scientists have found. This means that there are children out there who will still miss out on potentially life-changing prevention due to PSEUDO-SCIENTIFIC BULLSHIT.

I mean for fucks sake, it's 2008 and this myth is still doing the rounds ... gimme a break!
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Post by Wicked Pilot »

Suppose a study shows a link, and suppose correcting the problem is beyond our near future capabilities. Do we stop vaccinating?
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Post by Mayabird »

In a sane world, of course not. The risk of getting autism would still be much less than the risk of death and crippling from epidemics of all those diseases.

Unfortunately, this is not a sane world, and we would have to go through several epidemics at least before the same damn people now dead kids now start screaming about why vaccination programs weren't mandatory when it was their own fault that it happened.
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Post by Mayabird »

Ghetto edit: "Same damn people, now with dead kids, start screaming..."
[line 2]
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