EAS Cease-Fire and Debate Challenge

Ender · Post by **Ender** » 2003-01-23 06:33am

Master of Ossus wrote:
Ender wrote:
consequences wrote:Personally, I kind of like the title of " Uruk-Hai Commander" for Ender, it would mean that at least one positive change came from this mess. It also sounds pretty nifty.
Fuck, they claim I started this mess by posting there as "Troll hater" (even though that is an flat out lie), so they obviously see me as some sort of leader of the Orc hordes
The Burden of Proof is most clearly on them to demonstrate that.

Incidentally, when did they threaten you with legal action, and with what charges did they threaten to get you?

The first thread over there in Treknology where I posted as "troll hater", I was told by Felis that if I did not stop that Bernd would file a C&D order agaisnt me.

Post by **Lagmonster** » 2003-01-23 08:22am

Ender wrote:The first thread over there in Treknology where I posted as "troll hater", I was told by Felis that if I did not stop that Bernd would file a C&D order agaisnt me.

Feel free to laugh yourself into a coma. C&D indeed. Twits.

Master of Ossus · Post by **Master of Ossus** » 2003-01-23 10:38am

Here are some other statements they made in the final thread:

Oh, sorry, I'm in the wrong topic...I had the impression we were going to bash them back. Terribly sorry.

Darien

Felis Demens (Moderator) wrote:Do not stoop to their level. That's a very long fall.

It would be fun to get a group of us to go over there and start some trouble, but unfortunately I think it wouldn't be worth it. They wouldn't listen anyway, plus you can't have an intelligent discussion when the facts change to suit the problem.

And if a group of us DID go over there, we'd prolly all have anurisms (sp) because of the total idoicy we'd have to listen to...well, maybe not all of us, but most likely me - I'd either have an anurism(sp) or just go on a warsiedork killing spree. Hmm...and the down side to this would be.....

Also if we went over there and started trouble our personal information would be altered. Look for the guy named Darkstar and see what I mean. I can also imagine them pissing on us because we dont have PhD's we aren't "scientists" like Mr Wong they'll simply dissmiss us.

[Refering to DarkStar]Ahhhh... I see. Invite him over to our board. He's more than welcome.

And that name would only apply to the obnoxious ones like the ones at Stardestroyer.net, Millenium. If you were a Warsiedork, you'd be banned from here in short order.

Besides, Liking Trek as well as Wars proves you're not one.

That would be cool. He can come and be free among his people.

[A discussion of SW v. ST] It turns out heidious when one side is completely populated by obnoxious idiots and have a massive number superiority, as Stardestroyer.net has proven...

Razor, attacking a subjective opinion while spouting bullshit about objective fact wrote:Can somebody please explain to me the big deal surrounding Mike Wong's degree http://www.stardestroyer.net/Mike/Degree1.jpg he seems to enjoy flaunting it off as though it was a PhD. From what Ive heard it isn't really anything to sneeze at. one of the most enraging things is he states that the ISD is the most majestic starship in Sci fi BULLSHIT!! compared to all the Enterprises and the other trek ships the stardestroyers look like crap.

Someone should go over there and say something about hoe STar Trek is about a better future for humanity and not mindless space battles ans SFX like Wars is.

(Not that I have anything against Star Wars, just fans of it )

Which is why I signed up. Wish me luck!

Please do not mention SCN in any way. The last thing I want to do is run around with a pooper scooper picking up troll droppings...

A Moderator wrote:I recommend removing IMs and email, or else you'll get hostile e-mauls from them.

A Moderator wrote:Oh great... they're threatening an IP inquiry on you, Ed. Crap crap crap...

Fortunately, they can't do the same for me on my Agent account, cause I have a proxy between me and them that will have a word to say about that...

IF they DO come, I implore all of you to keep a cool head and dispense of their trollness with rationale. Tell them that they are exactly what they are, without resorting to harsh words with little substance (IE flames). Don't sink to their level; it's a very long fall.

BERND SCHNEIDER wrote:This is much worse than I thought. It just isn't possible to be more narrow-minded, ignorant and intolerant than the guys over there. Of course, if someone comes along to a closed community and makes some critical remarks, he is subject to be flamed.

But you made all valid points, Ed - or at least points that should be taken into consideration and commented. But instead of listening they only come up with their usual prejudices and completely irrelevant findings and take it down to insults. I once made a quite similar experience with fanatic followers in a forum where I posted (although the topic was not scifi but something completely different).

And what are the threats about your name and IP about? Since when is it required to reveal one's real name and IP to everyone? Wong's law?

That place is a stinking hell of fascist assholes. If Wong has any honor left, he should close it down, for the benefit of the whole SW fandom which is damaging its own reputation there.

This next one is my personal favorite post, seeing as how it is ludicrously hypocritical.

Damn, that is just too funny. I don't know how they can't figure out that they're just proving your point by insulting you...

2- It's ridiculous to think that a 300 years old space-faring civilisation (Federation of United Planets) that control only A PART of the Alpha quadron will beat a -----------) GALACTIC (-------- Empire, who posses a minimum of 25000 years old experience about space travel, that come from the Old Republic.

-Obviously these guys have never read their history. Do the 300 hundred Spartans ring a bell, and what about the American revolution

Typhonis 1 · Post by **Typhonis 1** » 2003-01-23 10:51am

hmmmm well dont look at me people they been there longer than I`ve been online nd I`ve only been a denzien of SD.Net since March of last year

Typhonis 1 · Post by **Typhonis 1** » 2003-01-23 10:53am

Besides the Spartan quote is apprppriate I mean how long would the 300 spartans last against say the 2ACR at full strength with full air support

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2003-01-23 11:17am

As I said, they suddenly talk tough after they lock their forum. What a bunch of pansies.

Schneider constantly insults us and then acts as though we somehow instigated this by insulting them BACK, and he was quiet as a mouse when I went over there to challenge him ... UNTIL they locked their forums!

And they like Darkstar, simply because he's a Trekkie. No other reason is required. Need we say more?

Simply pathetic. I thought Germans were supposed to have guts.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2003-01-23 11:48am

Translation of current EAS discussions regarding our board:

"There there, Bernd. It's OK. You're safe now. The bad man can't hurt you any more. Don't you worry about a thing. Mommy's here. We believe in you. We know it wasn't your fault. You're our precious little angel. My precious."

Knife · Post by **Knife** » 2003-01-23 12:02pm

Darth Wong wrote:Translation of current EAS discussions regarding our board:

"There there, Bernd. It's OK. You're safe now. The bad man can't hurt you any more. Don't you worry about a thing. Mommy's here. We believe in you. We know it wasn't your fault. You're our precious little angel. My precious."

OMG, I am ROTFLMAO on that one

. Precious indeed. To think it all started because people here wanted to know what others thought of EAS. Its funny to note that alot of people on SD.net liked EAS.

Their conduct is sad, just sad.

Post by **Lagmonster** » 2003-01-23 12:20pm

Darth Wong wrote:Translation of current EAS discussions regarding our board:

"There there, Bernd. It's OK. You're safe now. The bad man can't hurt you any more. Don't you worry about a thing. Mommy's here. We believe in you. We know it wasn't your fault. You're our precious little angel. My precious."

Yet another reminder that this argument isn't about sci-fi, but about a wolfpack growling that their alpha-male is better than another pack's.

Durandal · Post by **Durandal** » 2003-01-23 12:28pm

Notice how they consistently fling insults at us, but somehow it's okay because they never swear. Although, let's be honest, these guys have precious little skill when it comes to insulting. Most of the rabble looks like little 12 year-olds who want to play with the Big Boys, so they make up names like "Warsiedork."

What other gems can we expect from these half-wits? "Warsie Poopie Eaters"?

Razor wrote:Can somebody please explain to me the big deal surrounding Mike Wong's degree http://www.stardestroyer.net/Mike/Degree1.jpg he seems to enjoy flaunting it off as though it was a PhD. From what Ive heard it isn't really anything to sneeze at. one of the most enraging things is he states that the ISD is the most majestic starship in Sci fi BULLSHIT!! compared to all the Enterprises and the other trek ships the stardestroyers look like crap.

For some reason, this reminds me of some dumbshit hate mailer I had who actually attacked the randomly generated quote in my E-mail signature, as if it had anything to do with the actual discussion.

"Flaunting it as if it was a PhD"? He explicitly states that it's a degree in mechanical engineering! How is scanning it and posting it on his website in order to give legitimacy to his claim of being a mechanical engineer flaunting it?! Believe it or not, the internet is full of people who <gasp!> lie about their qualifications. Why should Mike be chastized for proving that he's a mechanical engineer?

I've never seen any quotes from Mike where he claims, "I have a degree, therefore I'm right," and these useless hatfuckers have never bothered to provide any. Sure, Mike blasted IXJac with stuff along the lines of, "He's questioning a mechanical engineer who specialized in fracture mechanics on matter of fracture mechanics" and "Did it ever occur to him that I might know something he doesn't?", but he'd previously demolished IXJac's arguments with some simple math and high school physics. That's not appealing to authority; that's pointing out that someone was a fucking retard for arguing out of his ass against someone who is thoroughly versed in the subject matter after showing why he was wrong.

I'll bet they're confusing Mike's readers' saying, "He has an engineering degree, so I'm going to trust that he's right on matters having to do with science and engineering" with Mike himself appealing to his own authority. Of course, we can't trust these little fucktards to make such small distinctions, can we? Or, perhaps they'll say invoking laws of thermodynamics is equivalent to appealing to authority. Or, instead of providing direct quotes from Mike, they'll use the time-honored copout, "The list is so long that I don't have time to compile it ... but they're there! So HA!" Fucking pussies.

Oh, and if they hold a Ph.D. in such high regard, why don't they just as Dr. Curtis Saxton, who has a Ph.D. in astrophysics (you know, a doctorate that's actually relevant), what he thinks of Star Wars technology?

2000AD · Post by **2000AD** » 2003-01-23 01:49pm

Did you get banned from there? I'm assuming you registered to post those messages you posted, so if your not banned why not go over there and try and debate some people. Post your messages there and somewhere else so that if they are edited you will have evidence. That way you'll be on THEIR ground ,ie. they can't complain about it being on your ground like your proposed email debate. If you did get banned then just ignore this.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2003-01-23 02:03pm

Not sure if I've been banned there or not, but I told them I was leaving, and I'm not one of those people who says such things and doesn't mean it.

Besides, E-mail is neutral ground, not my ground (that "his ground" bullshit came from NF_Utvol, not Bernd). And he did not care about the venue of the debate when refusing my challenge anyway. He simply refused flat. The offer remains open, but I doubt he'll take it.

Antie · Post by **Antie** » 2003-01-23 03:02pm

"Ad Hominem":

Yes. It's any direct insult whatsoever. Right?

Not exactly. It's a Latin phrase that means "to the person" (the "hominem" is a form of "homo," a human person, not specifically a male human -- think of "homo sapiens"); it refers to an attack on a person rather than the person's argument.

neoolong · Post by **neoolong** » 2003-01-23 03:09pm

Antie wrote:
"Ad Hominem":

Yes. It's any direct insult whatsoever. Right?
Not exactly. It's a Latin phrase that means "to the person" (the "hominem" is a form of "homo," a human person, not specifically a male human -- think of "homo sapiens"); it refers to an attack on a person rather than the person's argument.

And the attack is on the person in order to try to make the argument go away. Easier than actually refuting something I suppose.

Moonshadow · Post by **Moonshadow** » 2003-01-23 03:13pm

unfortunately i would have had a neutral solution had this happened a year ago. I was a Mod at GameCapitol.com which has since died and the board was taken down finally about a Month ago. If it was still up, you can't find a more neutral ground in a Sci-Fi debate than a video game board. I'm sure Bernd would have agreed to a dead but still up neutral board.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2003-01-23 03:39pm

Who gives a shit where it happens (and since when is E-mail and mutual posting on our respective boards not "neutral"?) I'll debate him on Usenet if I have to, but he flatly refuses to debate; nowhere in his TWO rejections (one on his board, one via E-mail) did he even hint at the possibility that he would be more amenable to a debate conducted in a different venue. It's not about venue; it's about his insistence on making accusations of dishonesty and incompetence and then lacking the balls to face the accused.

Moonshadow · Post by **Moonshadow** » 2003-01-23 03:41pm

damn. someone brought Gamecapitol back and no one told me. Oh well i still don't have my mod powers and since its somewhat active, i don't think they'd be too happy if i bring an off topic heated debate( maybe i could pull some strings and have it in the System Wars section)

Moonshadow · Post by **Moonshadow** » 2003-01-23 03:52pm

damn posted at the same time. Anyway as i said they're back up and running and probably wouldn't want an off topic debate going on on their board. I was going to talk to Bernd about the idea after i checked on GameCapitols status if the board was somehow up but adrift. But if you wait a few months i'll be a Mod there and the board will probably fail again because the admin has a history of Saying "wait our next update will be big" and then doesn't do anything for a long damn time

LordShaithis · Post by **LordShaithis** » 2003-01-23 05:07pm

*grumbles* Why are we not invading and crushing them, or at least awaiting the opportunity to do so? Do they not deserve it? Whose good opinion do we stand to lose by such an assault?

Durandal · Post by **Durandal** » 2003-01-23 05:23pm

GrandAdmiralPrawn wrote:*grumbles* Why are we not invading and crushing them, or at least awaiting the opportunity to do so? Do they not deserve it? Whose good opinion do we stand to lose by such an assault?

Because invasions are fucking stupid. I don't need any more damned BBS accounts, so I don't make one unless I plan to stay on a board for a very long time. Much more is accomplished by each side choosing a champion and having those champions debate. Unfortunately, every board but ours seems to turn into a bunch of pussies whenever this idea is presented, so we just keep flaming each other.

Grand Admiral Thrawn · Post by **Grand Admiral Thrawn** » 2003-01-23 05:27pm

Antie wrote:
"Ad Hominem":

Yes. It's any direct insult whatsoever. Right?
Not exactly. It's a Latin phrase that means "to the person" (the "hominem" is a form of "homo," a human person, not specifically a male human -- think of "homo sapiens"); it refers to an attack on a person rather than the person's argument.

I was being sarcastic. To them, any insult is an Ad Hominem while you can mock a person and ignore their arguments all you want.

Slartibartfast · Post by **Slartibartfast** » 2003-01-23 05:49pm

Hm I wonder how their little brains work... I mean, to them a swear word is an insult but an insult is not an insult.

So I can't say "stop bullshitting!" I'm insulting but they can say "you pathetic fallacious orc" because since it doesn't contain swear words, it's not an insult.

Master of Ossus · Post by **Master of Ossus** » 2003-01-23 07:03pm

Durandal wrote:
GrandAdmiralPrawn wrote:*grumbles* Why are we not invading and crushing them, or at least awaiting the opportunity to do so? Do they not deserve it? Whose good opinion do we stand to lose by such an assault?
Because invasions are fucking stupid. I don't need any more damned BBS accounts, so I don't make one unless I plan to stay on a board for a very long time. Much more is accomplished by each side choosing a champion and having those champions debate. Unfortunately, every board but ours seems to turn into a bunch of pussies whenever this idea is presented, so we just keep flaming each other.

Let's take a look at their potential champions:

Bernd Schneider: already debated with Mike. Apparently got his ass kicked, and fled to his site where he began talking tough and insulting our board regularly. Refused to debate Mike when challenged.

Razor: Already came here and began trolling immediately. Got his ass kicked in debate. Made ridiculous claims about members of this board, including lies and distortions, to get his point (and I use that word loosely) across. Repeatedly falls for the "style over substance fallacy," and is a great fan of DarkStar.

DarkStar: Already here, been banned. Got his ass kicked in repeated debates (in spite of what he claims), and refused to debate in anything like a rational manner, until Mike challenged him when he arbitrarily produced his own Rules of Engagement and refused to debate unless they were honored.

Red: Already came here. Lied and claimed that he had not posted something to a moderator, even when the original was still available.

NF_Utvol: Already came here. Certainly the least honest of the members of EAS I have had the displeasure of dealing with, thus far. Having had the shit beaten out of him by Mike and me, he ran away claiming that I was "distorting" his words. Refused to provide an example of me altering his words, when asked. Lied repeatedly about the EAS board and its members' conduct. These lies were not limited to claims that SD.net members flamed the EAS site first, as many of their members claimed, but instead expanded to include a cornucopia of outright deceptions and lies.

MinutiaeMan: Perhaps the most insulting member of the EAS forum, he was also one of the first to chicken out when called to combat.

Felis Demens: Openly insulted SD.net as a whole, repeatedly. Once his covert insults were spotted, he promptly locked the EAS forum while claiming that SD.net was "close-minded," and refused to consider alternative viewpoints. Openly welcomed DarkStar to the EAS forum, despite his colored history, and told him "DarkStar... whatever happens, you can find solace here." Also repeatedly stated that the EAS forum was "civilized," and that the SD.net forum was not. Refused to debate the matter publicly. Claimed the following, during a discussion: "However, I still think that most members of SDNet are rather scathing and insulting at times. From a subjective perspective, they would appear to be a ravening horde," while attempting to forge a truce.

Now, unless they have some other member that they're hiding who could step up and be their champion, then all of they're potential champions are just running away crying. There is no one worth debating, there, and it would be impossible for most members to be involved, anyway, seeing as how they have taken the unprecedented step of locking their registration in ANTICIPATION of an invasion.

LordShaithis · Post by **LordShaithis** » 2003-01-23 08:26pm

Now, unless they have some other member that they're hiding who could step up and be their champion, then all of they're potential champions are just running away crying. There is no one worth debating, there, and it would be impossible for most members to be involved, anyway, seeing as how they have taken the unprecedented step of locking their registration in ANTICIPATION of an invasion.

Indeed! Their champions have fled, and the rabble has sought refuge behind it's gates in expectation of the crushing counter-assault which they know they so richly deserve!

The Dark · Post by **The Dark** » 2003-01-23 08:39pm

I just love the whole "Everyone over there follows Mike in everything." For goodness sake, I am a Creationist (I know, I know, Occam's Razor, but remember I'm not a scientific realist)! Before y'all start getting out the flamethrowers

, it's the kind that feels that there is a Creator who acted in a way consistent with science, not the moronic YEC. I agree with you guys on science as far as it goes and tend to agree on most things overall, but not everything. These guys obviously never bothered to check out the forums before they began trolling.

StarDestroyer.Net BBS

EAS Cease-Fire and Debate Challenge

To Darth Wong ,