Harassment of Atheists in the US Army

[Ethereal41]

From CNN.com

JUNCTION CITY, Kansas (AP) -- Like hundreds of young men joining the Army in recent years, Jeremy Hall professes a desire to serve his country while it fights terrorism.

But the short and soft-spoken specialist is at the center of a legal controversy. He has filed a lawsuit alleging that he's been harassed and his constitutional rights have been violated because he doesn't believe in God. The suit names Defense Secretary Robert Gates.

"I'm not in it for cash," Hall said. "I want no one else to go what I went through."

Known as "the atheist guy," Hall has been called immoral, a devil worshipper and -- just as severe to some soldiers -- gay, none of which, he says, is true. Hall even drove fellow soldiers to church in Iraq and paused while they prayed before meals.

"I see a name and rank and United States flag on their shoulder. That's what I believe everyone else should see," he said.

Hall, 23, was raised in a Protestant family in North Carolina and dropped out of school. It wasn't until he joined the Army that he began questioning religion, eventually deciding that he couldn't follow any faith.

But he feared how that would look to other soldiers.

"I was ashamed to say that I was an atheist," Hall said.

It eventually came out in Iraq in 2007, when he was in a firefight. Hall was a gunner on a Humvee, which took several bullets in its protective shield. Afterward, his commander asked whether he believed in God, Hall said.

"I said, 'No, but I believe in Plexiglas,' " Hall said. "I've never believed I was going to a happy place. You get one life. When I die, I'm worm food."

The issue came to a head when, according to Hall, a superior officer, Maj. Freddy J. Welborn, threatened to bring charges against him for trying to hold a meeting of atheists in Iraq. Welborn has denied Hall's allegations.

Hall said he had had enough but feared that he wouldn't get support from Welborn's superiors. He turned to Mikey Weinstein and the Military Religious Freedom Foundation.

Weinstein is the foundation's president and a U.S. Air Force Academy graduate. He had sued the Air Force for acts he said illegally imposed Christianity on students at the academy, though that case was dismissed. He calls Hall a hero.

"The average American doesn't have enough intestinal fortitude to tell someone to shut up if they are talking in a movie theater," Weinstein said. "You know how hard it is to take on your chain of command? This isn't the shift manager at KFC."

Hall was in Qatar when the lawsuit was filed September 18 in federal court in Kansas City, Kansas. Other soldiers learned of it, and he feared for his own safety. Once, Hall said, a group of soldiers followed him, harassing him, but no one did anything to make it stop.

The Army told him it couldn't protect him and sent him back to Fort Riley. He resumed duties with a military police battalion. He believes that his promotion to sergeant has been blocked because of his lawsuit, but he is a team leader responsible for two junior enlisted soldiers.

No one with Fort Riley, the Army or that Defense Department would comment about Hall or the lawsuit. Each issued statements saying that discrimination will not be tolerated regardless of race, religion or gender.

"The department respects [and supports by its policy] the rights of others to their own religious beliefs, including the right to hold no beliefs," said Eileen Lainez, a spokeswoman for the Department of Defense.

All three organizations said existing systems help soldiers "address and resolve any perceived unfair treatment."

Lt. Col. David Shurtleff, a Fort Riley chaplain, declined to discuss Hall's case but said chaplains accommodate all faiths as best they can. In most cases, religious issues can be worked out without jeopardizing military operations.

"When you're in Afghanistan and an IED blows up a Humvee, they aren't asking about a wounded soldier's faith," Shurtleff said.

Hall said he enjoys being a team leader but has been told that having faith would make him a better leader.

"I will take care of my soldiers. Nowhere does it say I have to pray with my soldiers, but I do have to make sure my soldiers' religious needs are met," he said.

"Religion brings comfort to a lot of people," he said. "Personally, I don't want it or need it. But I'm not going to get down on anybody else for it."

Hall leaves the Army in April 2009. He would like to find work with the National Park Service or Environmental Protection Agency, anything outdoors.

"I hope this doesn't define me," Hall said of his lawsuit. "It's just about time somebody said something."

I think I'll sig the plexiglass quote. Posted without any other comment as of now.

[Mr Bean]

It eventually came out in Iraq in 2007, when he was in a firefight. Hall was a gunner on a Humvee, which took several bullets in its protective shield. Afterward, his commander asked whether he believed in God, Hall said.

"I said, 'No, but I believe in Plexiglas,' " Hall said. "I've never believed I was going to a happy place. You get one life. When I die, I'm worm food."

Your right that is sig worthy

[Sidewinder]

The sig-worthy quote reminds me of a scene in Dogma, where a fallen angel declares a cartoon company exec is an idolater, puts a voodoo doll on the table in front of the sinner, mentions the beliefs surrounding the doll, smashes it, and laughs about how ridiculous it is to believe in voodoo. Then the fallen angel draws a Desert Eagle, says, "But I believe in this," and shoots the sinner.

But, yeah, it's unfair that this soldier was harassed for being an athiest. I also had trouble with sergeants preaching to me when I was in the Army, and can say, from personal experience, that being religious does NOT automatically make someone a better person.

[Patrick Degan]

The issue came to a head when, according to Hall, a superior officer, Maj. Freddy J. Welborn, threatened to bring charges against him for trying to hold a meeting of atheists in Iraq. Welborn has denied Hall's allegations.

And this violates Army regulations... how, exactly, Maj. Welborn?

[Lonestar]

The issue came to a head when, according to Hall, a superior officer, Maj. Freddy J. Welborn, threatened to bring charges against him for trying to hold a meeting of atheists in Iraq. Welborn has denied Hall's allegations.

And this violates Army regulations... how, exactly, Maj. Welborn?

Even better, it's been mentioned in other articles that Hall got permission from his unit Chaplain to hold that meeting. So, as far as the Chaplain was concern, everything was legit.

Wasn't good enough for the Major tho'.

[Enforcer Talen]

Strange, Ive met a fair number of atheists in the USMC. Religion doesnt get in the way much.

[Zor]

Enforcer Talen, Are certain units of the Corps' more or less Liberal or Conservative than others?

Zor

[Enforcer Talen]

I would expect so. Ive found a rough correlation with MOS - infantry are more conservative, intelligence are more open to ideas; about what you'd expect.

I think being liberal or conservative is a bigger deal then what religion you are, at least with the marines Ive encountered.

[CmdrWilkens]

I would expect so. Ive found a rough correlation with MOS - infantry are more conservative, intelligence are more open to ideas; about what you'd expect.

I think being liberal or conservative is a bigger deal then what religion you are, at least with the marines Ive encountered.

I would agree completely. My unit was engineers which tendsto fall more in line with the grunts (in terms of ideology) but nobody cared where or if anyone went to church. Irrespective fo the fact that drill weekends were on Sunday's most of our unit tended not to be of the heavy churchgoing type. We certainly had a few atheists or at least agnostics and a handful of additional non-judeo christians.

[Lonestar]

It's the same in the Navy. Compare a gunnersmate or deck seaman to a CT or nuke, you'll get different points of view.

[Zwinmar]

I was USMC infantry, no one gave a shit about religion really. (there were a few but they didnt try to talk shit). Sunday was just another day for us, if we were in the field, we were in the field, if we were in garrison...time to drink, hopefully.

[Coyote]

Yeah, it's more a liberal-conservative thing. Religion, if it comes up at all, is curiosity, and most of the guys I've served with were interested to meet people that were from other faiths, or had none.

The closest thing to "discrimination" I've ever seen is when a Chaplain at a group event prayed "In the name of Jesus Christ" at my Reserve unit. They're supposed to keep it general and nonspecific at group events, but since I pretty much ignore group prayers anyways in uniform it didn't really bother me. Otherwise, after nearly two decades of service, it's been a non-issue.

[Darth Wong]

Doesn't the CO set the tone? I know that in civilian life, the manager sets the tone for the office. Wouldn't the military be the same way, in the sense that you have to put up with a lot of harassment if you're stuck with an asshole fundie CO? That would explain why some people have horrible experiences while others don't.

[Lonestar]

Doesn't the CO set the tone? I know that in civilian life, the manager sets the tone for the office. Wouldn't the military be the same way, in the sense that you have to put up with a lot of harassment if you're stuck with an asshole fundie CO? That would explain why some people have horrible experiences while others don't.

Actually, it depends on how the XO is. Your CO can be a complete idiot, but if your XO is a good "Handler" it ain't bad.

Chaplain also sets the tone...a CO is normally very hesitant to interfere with the Chaplains..."domain" as it were, which let's a Chaplain get away with being a complete dick sometimes(in this particular instance, the Chaplain is in the right, I believe. He said it was well within the soldier's rights to hold a Atheist meeting).

There are mid-range officers that are complete assholes, and can get away with it, especially if the senior enlisted guy(Called a Command Master Chief in the USN) happens to agree with the mid-range officer.

[Eulogy]

There are mid-range officers that are complete assholes, and can get away with it, especially if the senior enlisted guy(Called a Command Master Chief in the USN) happens to agree with the mid-range officer.

And then those same felching fuckers wonder why morale and loyalty of their troops are so low, not to mention that the Army is having a hard enough time recruiting good soldiers as it is.

There's a reason units keep to-frag lists.

Here's hoping Jeremy's lawsuit succeeds, and those bastards get reamed.