A North American Union?

[Warsie]

I heard of this for several years, here's the first article I found on it:
http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=14965

Lou Dobbs has been talking about it for a while as well.
http://tinyurl.com/5g68tg

There's even a wiki link, first it was there, than deleted, then put back
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_American_Union

What do you think?

[TithonusSyndrome]

I think it's a gigantic nuisance to have to delete these fucktarded tinfoil hat links from my Facebook account every two days.

[Warsie]

I think it's a gigantic nuisance to have to delete these fucktarded tinfoil hat links from my Facebook account every two days.

I don't know why, but that made me chuckle.

[Uraniun235]

It sounds about as likely as the formation of Cascadia.

[FSTargetDrone]

I heard of this for several years, here's the first article I found on it:
http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=14965

Lou Dobbs has been talking about it for a while as well.
http://tinyurl.com/5g68tg

There's even a wiki link, first it was there, than deleted, then put back
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_American_Union

What do you think?

Heh, Human Events. Human Events ia a right-wing site of insanity.

[Gerald Tarrant]

Easing travel restrictions is a good idea. Ironically (because so many nativists oppose it) easing visa restrictions would probably slow the number of permanent immigrants. As it is there's incentive to stay since being able to reimmigrate (for itinerant workers) is made difficult by the border situation, so they stay to avoid making the crossing again. These sorts of intergovernmental legal frameworks are all to the good.

The common currency idea of the NAU theory just seems unrealistic. Any NAU would be dominated by the US (just due to the economic size of the US), which would mean US deficits would have massive implications for the other members. The other NAFTA members already face this, but its effets are buffered somewhat by different currencies, I can't see them willingly accepting this. The EU on the other hand has a more "egalitarian" division of economic power among its members, so one country's economy doesn't skew things as badly as the NAU situation would. The NAU is more of an intersting "what if" than a practical future. Really you'd need enforceable rules along the lines of the EU's about budget deficits, which Washington wouldn't accept. And despite these rules IIRC France has cheated a few times on the size of its deficits.

[Phantasee]

Man, don't bring this shit up in here. The bogeyman of some sort of United States of North America (or whatever they're calling it this week) is trotted out everytime the leaders of the NAFTA countries meet. Hell, sometimes it's just a meeting between US and Canadian leaders, because obviously Mexico isn't important, right? It's getting more common to run into people going on about this now that the USD and CAD are at parity. Hell, my father brings up the subject over dinner every few weeks.

[TithonusSyndrome]

Dude, for the longest time, my father was the one sending me all the Facebook links. Thankfully he's not as taken with the site as he appears to have once been.

[Sidewinder]

Dude, for the longest time, my father was the one sending me all the Facebook links. Thankfully he's not as taken with the site as he appears to have once been.

Having a conspiracy theorist as a father... Yeah, that sucks. (I'm speaking from personal experience.)

[Ohma]

Ugh, they go on and on about this shit on Coast to Coast (my dad and I listen and mock). Apparently it's all some big conspiracy by the Illuminati (who want...more complete control over the world?) and some group called the Builderburger Group (who are always assumed to be common knowlege so I have no clue what they're supposed to be, save that they meet in some hotel apparently), and they want to create an AMERO!! (ooo, scary! )

[TithonusSyndrome]

Dude, for the longest time, my father was the one sending me all the Facebook links. Thankfully he's not as taken with the site as he appears to have once been.

Having a conspiracy theorist as a father... Yeah, that sucks. (I'm speaking from personal experience.)

Well I don't know that mine is an out-and-out tinfoil hat nutter, he's more of a sort of gut-instinct skeptic from back before the modern, productive skepticism movement. He thinks peak oil is likely a media scheme to raise oil prices in spite of the bevy of evidence, but he laps up a bunch of woo-woo links on his Facebook, so yeah.

[lazerus]

This theory is absolutely ludicrous, but I've got to ask -- even if that were true, exactly what would be so bad about it?

[TithonusSyndrome]

This theory is absolutely ludicrous, but I've got to ask -- even if that were true, exactly what would be so bad about it?

Most of the youtube videos that come in my Facebook links tend to suggest that you'll have microchips stuffed into you ad nauseum, which of course is a fulfillment of the book of Revelations.

[Darth Wong]

This theory is absolutely ludicrous, but I've got to ask -- even if that were true, exactly what would be so bad about it?

Most countries have an attachment to their sovereignty. Under this scheme, Canada and Mexico basically get annexed by the US. Of course, that's why it wouldn't happen. American conspiracy theorists think that it's the reverse: the US would somehow get annexed by a Canada/Mexico conspiracy, despite being much more powerful than both of them combined. That's because American conspiracy theorists are stupid.

[Warsie]

This theory is absolutely ludicrous, but I've got to ask -- even if that were true, exactly what would be so bad about it?

mainly they are angry on how it's being done without the Congress' approval and the safety risks and price-of-labor in the US decreasing due to the mass influx of Mexicans and quality-of-life decrease.

and some group called the Builderburger Group (who are always assumed to be common knowlege so I have no clue what they're supposed to be, save that they meet in some hotel apparently)

here's an article:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/3773019.stm

wiki link:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bilderberg_Group

[TithonusSyndrome]

This theory is absolutely ludicrous, but I've got to ask -- even if that were true, exactly what would be so bad about it?

Most countries have an attachment to their sovereignty. Under this scheme, Canada and Mexico basically get annexed by the US. Of course, that's why it wouldn't happen. American conspiracy theorists think that it's the reverse: the US would somehow get annexed by a Canada/Mexico conspiracy, despite being much more powerful than both of them combined. That's because American conspiracy theorists are stupid.

I don't so much think that they believe America will be "swallowed up" as it will cease to be the same great infallible entity that ends at the 54th parallel and is all they worship now. It's the same as with all the Americans who freak over a "world government", which I for the life of me cannot possibly see how it would be anything but an improvement - their objection is nothing more than "it's not 'MER'KA, DURR DURR!"

[Gerald Tarrant]

This theory is absolutely ludicrous, but I've got to ask -- even if that were true, exactly what would be so bad about it?

Most countries have an attachment to their sovereignty. Under this scheme, Canada and Mexico basically get annexed by the US. Of course, that's why it wouldn't happen. American conspiracy theorists think that it's the reverse: the US would somehow get annexed by a Canada/Mexico conspiracy, despite being much more powerful than both of them combined. That's because American conspiracy theorists are stupid.

Canada and Mexico both have larger social safety nets than the US. The most amusing conspiracy theory I read suggested that Liberals would find common cause with Canadians and Mexicans to turn the US into a "pot smoking, hippy, commie, luv fest." It was accurate in that, given a voice in US elections most of the world would lean more towards the Democratic Party then the GOP

[Coyote]

It wouldn't bother me, but Canada and Mexico wouldn't want to do it because they don't want to get saddled with the fucking debt we have to China right now.

[Ohma]

and some group called the Builderburger Group (who are always assumed to be common knowlege so I have no clue what they're supposed to be, save that they meet in some hotel apparently)

here's an article:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/3773019.stm

wiki link:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bilderberg_Group

Oh so they are just your generic shadowy group of rich people who conspiracy nuts love.

[Siege]

It wouldn't bother me, but Canada and Mexico wouldn't want to do it because they don't want to get saddled with the fucking debt we have to China right now.

Not if you're in a EU-type of Union. Just 'cause we form a nice economic block with them and a whole bunch of other nations doesn't mean that The Netherlands is going to pay off any Italian national debts.

[Gerald Tarrant]

It wouldn't bother me, but Canada and Mexico wouldn't want to do it because they don't want to get saddled with the fucking debt we have to China right now.

Not if you're in a EU-type of Union. Just 'cause we form a nice economic block with them and a whole bunch of other nations doesn't mean that The Netherlands is going to pay off any Italian national debts.

The common currency means that budget deficits have an impact even on countries which aren't running deficits. Since budget deficits also have an impact on the amount of currency the ECB prints. That's why the EU has budgetary requirements for its members Stability and Growth Pact. In any case some of the conspiracy theories about any sort of "North American Union" treat it like a North American EU, complete with a common currency. Which is why Mexico and Canada might be a little leery about any sort of Economic union.