SD.net's World OOC/Discussion thread MK II

[The Yosemite Bear]

Adding Bear Republic's rumor and probably innaccurate version of the events. Yeah the largest transmitter/reciever in the air just got a bit of the showing of teeth.

[Mr Bean]

That ballon is so vunerable it's not even funny. A Balloon with nuclear material onboard? It's got to be fucking HUGE.


OAN:Trained personnel I think would be an issue for me soon. Heck all Space program's are "on the job training" in a year or two people are going to want to move on and I'm going to have issues replacing the oh-so well trained personnel I've built up with over a hundred launchs. Heck the people willing to launch your crap into orbit are UKB personnel on loan to Atlantis.

[Raj Ahten]

I've pretty much decided to throw my hat in the ring and join this world! I'll post the basics on my nation tommorow, hopefully going into some detail. My nation is small, and I'm going with the Second World living standards (Have to have something to build towards, after all). My Industry of note will be security contracting. You could say I'm a modern day Hesse. We will offer full spectrum security solutions! Training, COIN operations, threat assessment, kidnap and randsom negotiations and rescues, VIP protection, and more! Especially with the latest rash of terrorist incidents, security is more important than ever.

[RogueIce]

Beowulf, still you shot the drone down, there's no way it could've just fell on it's own after traversing 1000 kms when it's range is double that.

Well yeah, he would shoot it down. You violated a MESS member's airspace and he took appropriate action. Just like if somebody tried to do something to Tongdijuana or Baal, I'd be taking defensive measures as well.

So Beowulf would be well within his rights to shoot it down, regardless of whether the planned crashdown was before it reached his nation or not (as Phong indicated, it's not like anyone would know until it happened).

So yes, it may have crashed on his territory because he shot it down, but he was justified in shooting it down (I'm sure if we sent drones to the RT and they looked like they were going to pass over or right by the UKB, Bean would probably do something if he could). Which wouldn't have happened if you hadn't launched them in the first place.

Look, I'm not trying to continue to fan the flames here. I think we all could have handled the situation better than how it ended up going down. But I don't think you can claim complete innocence on the matter, either.

On another note, it is our hope to be able to present a framework description of the MESS at the end of the summit. Stay tuned!

[Beowulf]

I didn't make the assumption that Stas was to dumb to spy on the correct country. I made the assumption that he didn't care whose airspace he violated. Which he has shown to be at least somewhat the case.

[K. A. Pital]

I'm not claiming complete innocence anyway.

[PeZook]

I wrote up a basic shipbuilding guide:

Guide to shipbuilding:

Basic stuff about real-world shipbuilding

Building a ship is no small feat ; Even a very small freighter is a huge undertaking, requiring thousands of tonnes of steel and plenty of skilled workers.

Modern shipbuilding is normally done in a modular way. Huge elements of each ship are assembled on land, moved to a drydock/slipway and welded together right there. This is convenient, as the slipway is only occupied for the assembly process, however it required a shipyard to have extensive productoin halls and facilities on land.

These requirements mean that constructing a shipyard from scratch is a huge undertaking, requiring many years and millions of dollars in investment.

How do we measure a ship?

...with a tape measure, of course!

But seriously, while we could get into details light lenght, draft, beam and so on, for the purpose of the game, we'll use two basic measurements:

DWT

Or deadweight tonnage - this is the cargo capacity of a ship, which means the space where it can hold cargo. It's extremely useful for merchant ships.

Gross tonnage

This is the mass of water a ship displaces ; Calculated, basically, from volume of the submerged portion of the hull. Displacement can have several values: different for loaded and unloaded ships, different for surfaced or submerged submarines, etc.

For simplicity, we'll use a standard measurement of unloaded displacement.

Generally speaking, we'll use DWT for merchant ships, and gross displacement tonnage for warships.

If you ever need to convert between the two, the ratio is typically about 1.5 Displacement/DWT (it only works for merchant ships ; Military ships have no real cargo holds other than what's used for supplies, so measuring them in DWT is pointless)

So, the base shipyard capacity is measured in DWT. If you want to build warships, you divide their displacement by 1.5.

The Meat

There are, basically, five nation levels.

L1: Duchy

L2: Principality

L3: Kingdom

L4: Tsardom

L5: Imperium

Each of these levels has different GDP, navy and shipbuilding capacity. When comparing with real-world countries, we'll use a baseline of Spain which can produce about 450 thousand DWT of merchant ships annually.

This is what we can expect a Kingdom to make. For ISCA I used the following baselines:

L1: 60-100 DWT yearly
L2: 120-180 DWT yearly
L3: 500-600 DWT yearly
L4: 1000-1200 DWT yearly
L5: 1800-2000 DWT yearly

Build times

When I calculate ISCA's output, I assume for simplicity's sake that all ships scheduled for a fiscal year are considered "built" at the end of the year, but this isn't always true.

Now, this works best for merchant ships ; I'm toying with the idea of establishing a different system altogether for warship construction.

Also, I think it should contain rules for expanding your shipyards, but I have no idea what those could be.

[The Yosemite Bear]

That ballon is so vunerable it's not even funny. A Balloon with nuclear material onboard? It's got to be fucking HUGE.


OAN:Trained personnel I think would be an issue for me soon. Heck all Space program's are "on the job training" in a year or two people are going to want to move on and I'm going to have issues replacing the oh-so well trained personnel I've built up with over a hundred launchs. Heck the people willing to launch your crap into orbit are UKB personnel on loan to Atlantis.

I know that. and It's an incredably ludicrus boondoggle too.

[Shroom Man 777]

I've pretty much decided to throw my hat in the ring and join this world! I'll post the basics on my nation tommorow, hopefully going into some detail. My nation is small, and I'm going with the Second World living standards (Have to have something to build towards, after all). My Industry of note will be security contracting. You could say I'm a modern day Hesse. We will offer full spectrum security solutions! Training, COIN operations, threat assessment, kidnap and randsom negotiations and rescues, VIP protection, and more! Especially with the latest rash of terrorist incidents, security is more important than ever.

The FUN (Fungal Union of Nations) opens its arms in friendship and would like to invite your nation to a mutually prosperitive alliance that is dedicated to peace, not military machismo. Your security contrators will also be vital in ridding the Central Sea of piracy.

[PeZook]

The FUN (Fungal Union of Nations) opens its arms in friendship and would like to invite your nation to a mutually prosperitive alliance that is dedicated to peace, not military machismo. Your security contrators will also be vital in ridding the Central Sea of piracy.

Plain machismo is prevalent and overwhelming, though.

Report from the Finance Ministry: Body Oil demand went up 33% since the formation of the FUN, and volleyball stores are experiencing an unprecedented period of growth.

[Shroom Man 777]

Also, how many of the non-FUNGAL LUN nations are there? You should start advertising FUN to your friends. Hell, we could put Zor and Syndromia in with us, for total win.

[PeZook]

Also, how many of the non-FUNGAL LUN nations are there? You should start advertising FUN to your friends. Hell, we could put Zor and Syndromia in with us, for total win.

I'm...not sure. Tiriol seems to have dropped out of the game, but Zor can probably be brought in.

[Shroom Man 777]

Excellent. I wish we could get Triol back. His avatar exuded a presence of majesty.

Has Shep come up with his SAM-Beards? I am interested in buying ABM systems from Phong.

[Mr Bean]

Phongn I'm sorry to inform you but the MESS, OMSK have a joint policy to shoot down ALL Leo satellites except ones launched from Atlantis International Space center where they will be inspected by international observers.

If you've been willy nilly launch satellites in below 1,000 km orbit, they are dead now.

If you send ANY satellites over Saddamstain period, he declares war on you. And/Or ask kindly to send his Commando's to your country to dismantle your space industry.



Congradulations you wasted billions in investment and provided a few dozen Decoy targets for OMSK and MESS AST rockets.

Or, you have a retro-con comming.

[K. A. Pital]

I presume his suite complies to the NSC Rules that were laid out, or it is launched from the NSC being inspected.

If it's not, and it's below the airspace limit of OMSK, MESS or just anyone else capable to shoot them down (Saddam?), all those satellites are/will be down in a very short time.

[Crossroads Inc.]

MAN Shroomy where do you keep finding this old pictures I mean, those "vollyball" players in your post.. Wow, just MM! You need to import some of those to Crossroadia, We've only got Bishies over here.

Also, I am Loving Yoes's Conversation with "Q"

[RogueIce]

PeZook
So...1000-1200 DWT/year? Damn, more than I thought.

And didn't Zor petiton the OMSK for membership? I seem to remember him doing so.

And I remember the general pullout from Syndromia, but I don't remember what happened after that, how it get partitioned, and so on.

Maybe we need someone to take down a general summary, for an annual or bi-annual release? It'd be much easier for everyone to keep caught up that way.

[RogueIce]

Oh, and luckily for the MESS, we have that nifty anti-Q lining in our meeting area. So the summit continues!

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

Now, this works best for merchant ships ; I'm toying with the idea of establishing a different system altogether for warship construction.

Also, I think it should contain rules for expanding your shipyards, but I have no idea what those could be.

How does that compare with S. Korea actually?

[Crossroads Inc.]

Oh, and luckily for the MESS, we have that nifty anti-Q lining in our meeting area. So the summit continues!

How the hell did you get that Stuff

[Mr Bean]

Oh, and luckily for the MESS, we have that nifty anti-Q lining in our meeting area. So the summit continues!

How the hell did you get that Stuff

Dry bar that's how

[PeZook]

How does that compare with S. Korea actually?

Frankly, I have no idea

I used China, which has about 15 million DWT yearly capacity, and Spain with 500k. The guide is not official yet, remember: It's still a work in progress. I'm not sure I can get it to accurately model reality ever, but I hope we can use it for FY2010.

And, frankly, I'm toying with the idea of converting it all to displacement. because it will make everything so much easier...

So...1000-1200 DWT/year? Damn, more than I thought. Very Happy

Yeah, I had you pegged down pretty low, haven't I? For some reason, I was sure you were a Kingdom

Of course, I will have to do something about Langley's ridiculously huge shipyards, so it probably evens out.

[RogueIce]

Oh, and luckily for the MESS, we have that nifty anti-Q lining in our meeting area. So the summit continues!

How the hell did you get that Stuff

Um, transphasic particles? Atmospheric anamolies? Swamp gas reflecting off Venus?

So...1000-1200 DWT/year? Damn, more than I thought. Very Happy

Yeah, I had you pegged down pretty low, haven't I? For some reason, I was sure you were a Kingdom

Of course, I will have to do something about Langley's ridiculously huge shipyards, so it probably evens out.

Ah well. I'll need available space to keep my Navy going and all. I am hoping to replace my Old Earth equipment with new stuff. Not necessarily expanding but more like a one-for-one replacement, more or less (with some of it probably going to the Reserve or being sold off or whatever).

[Coyote]

Is China the best model for baseline production ability? China is a continental power primarily, their maritime power has been secondary for some time. But island nations will have it turned around-- sea power and the production thereof would have priority...

[PeZook]

Is China the best model for baseline production ability? China is a continental power primarily, their maritime power has been secondary for some time. But island nations will have it turned around-- sea power and the production thereof would have priority...

I've been wondering about that. The best place to use would probably be something like the United Kingdom, but so far I've been unable to locate any precise data on their capability.

And, of course, all Old Earth comparisons would be screwed up because of capital flight.

This is a real intellectual challenge, actually