Gas prices are fueling demand for smaller vehicles.

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Gas prices are fueling demand for smaller vehicles.

Post by Soontir C'boath »

MSNBC wrote:Gas prices fuel demand for smaller cars
Buyers dumping SUVs and pickups in favor of more fuel-efficient vehicles
The Associated Press
updated 4:26 p.m. ET, Sun., April. 27, 2008

DETROIT - Scott Piechocinski roamed the rows of a CarMax dealership in Charlotte, N.C., on a recent afternoon, searching for something small to replace his son’s 2001 Nissan Pathfinder sport utility vehicle.

He’s not alone: As gas prices marched higher and now top $3.50 per gallon across the nation, car buyers across the country increasingly are abandoning SUVs and pickups in favor of smaller crossovers and cars.

“Fuel is money,” Piechocinski said. “You have to be realistic.”

The trend also is showing up globally and could rival the industry upheaval that followed the last big oil price shock in 1980. That earthquake caught Detroit automakers lacking in fuel-efficient models buyers were demanding and set the stage for the rise of Asian competitors such as Toyota and Honda Motor Co.

General Motors Corp., Ford Motor Co. and Chrysler LLC rebounded in the 1990s when fuel was relatively cheap and they piled up big profits selling SUVs and pickups. But now history is repeating itself — with a vengeance.

SUV sales down
Sales of large SUVs plummeted 28 percent in the first quarter this year, while subcompact sales rose 32 percent, according to Autodata Corp. Thriftier four-cylinder engines, once despised by Americans for their perceived lack of power, are selling in record numbers.

April sales results to be released on May 1 are likely to show an even more pronounced shift, predicted Jesse Toprak, chief industry analyst for the auto information site Edmunds.com. “That’s simply a function of the dramatic increase in oil prices that we’ve seen in the last few weeks.”

The trend away from SUVs started well before gas prices began climbing in 2005, in part because of the introduction of “crossover” vehicles — those with SUV styling but built on the more nimble and fuel-efficient car chassis. SUV sales peaked at 3 million in 2003; they’re expected to fall to half that number this year, and the change caught Detroit unprepared.

“It happened too rapidly for the American automakers to take sufficient action,” said Aaron Bragman, an auto analyst for the Waltham, Mass.-based consulting firm Global Insight. For example, 74 percent of the vehicles Chrysler sold in the U.S. last year were trucks and SUVs, compared to 42 percent at Toyota Motor Corp.

Now owners of SUVs and other gas guzzlers who’ve seen the price of a fill-up climb sharply are getting a second shock when they try to trade in their behemoths. Used car dealers don’t want the big vehicles on their lots anymore because hardly anyone is buying them. Some won’t take them at any price.

Small cars are now the largest segment of the U.S. auto market, accounting for 18 percent of new car sales. Last year U.S. consumers bought a record 2.8 million of them, and with sales up 4 percent in the first quarter this year, the record almost surely will be shattered.

Buyers want fuel efficiency
In the U.S., gasoline prices are driving the small car boom, but worldwide, it’s people in emerging economies gaining wealth, said Mike DiGiovanni, GM’s executive director of global markets and industry analysis.

“A middle class is starting to develop, and they’re trying to move up scale from smaller cars to the larger compact-size cars,” he said.

U.S. buyers, even when they pick larger cars, are going for more fuel-efficient engines.

Six-cylinder engines used to command the lion’s share of the market, but 38 percent of buyers sought four-cylinder engines in the first quarter, the highest since Westlake Village, Calif.-based marketing and consulting firm J.D. Power and Associates began collecting such data in 2002.

That directly affects automakers’ bottom lines: A large vehicle with a V-8 engine can command $8,000 more than one with a 6-cylinder, in part because additional luxury features are often packaged with the larger engine, according to J.D. Power auto analyst Jason Rothkop. By comparison, there is a discount of $4,000 when a buyer moves down from a 6-cylinder to a 4-cylinder.

Demographics also play a role. Baby boomers are trading in larger vehicles as their nests empty, and their children are now of car-buying age. Half of the next generation will pick small cars for their first set of wheels, said George Pipas, Ford’s top sales analyst.

“Gas prices are important because they’ve accelerated these shifts, but the shifts were going to happen anyway,” Pipas said. “SUVs were not going to roam the Earth in this decade as they did in the 90s.”

Pickup sales also tumbled with the recent downturn in home construction, since they are often used as work vehicles. The weakened economy and falling home values have played a role in the decline of SUVs and pickups.

“We see our consumers coming into our dealerships and wanting to trade down into a lower monthly payment,” said Steven Landry, Chrysler’s vice president of sales.

A growing number of SUV owners, like Yumberto Menicocci, are leaving the segment altogether. According to J.D. Power, nearly a third of buyers who traded in a mid-sized SUV picked a small crossover or compact car in the first quarter of this year. Just 5 percent upgraded to a larger SUV.

Menicocci, a resident of the upscale Miami suburb of Palmetto Bay, recently placed his 2003 Chevrolet Tahoe with leather seats and 39,000 miles for sale on Craigslist for $16,000 — roughly $2,000 less than what his research determined was the Kelley Blue Book value.

He bought a 2003 Kia Spectra for $5,000 because he was tired of paying so much for gas with his heavy Tahoe. “I was wasting $30 a day compared to $10 a day,” he said.

“Everybody is like, ‘What is that? Is that the maid’s car?’ ” said Menicocci, who sells marble and granite for a living. “But I don’t care. At this point, I’m way past looks and appearances.”
First bolded, eat that you dumbfucks! Especially to those like Sean Hannity saying it was their "right" drive whatever they want. I can't believe I use to listen to him on the radio.

Second bolded, what a limped dick. Only now that it hurts the wallet. :roll:
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Post by Admiral Valdemar »

Poor widdle Americans. Penis envy trucks and cars not in vogue now since you had to part with money for your dino-juice? Welcome to the real-world.

Let me know when you start paying high prices for your petrol. $4 a gallon? Yeah, I'd give a limb for paying that now.
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Post by Mr Bean »

Once again proving that certain industries are run by people with IQ's lower than brain damaged chimpanzees. History repeating itself again? We never could have seen that coming!

Fuck you Detriot, I'd say I'd hope the CEO's and executives get the boot, but in age of golden parachutes I hope your workers come to your houses with torches and pitchforks.

/rant
I mean what the fuck, gas prices going up? Big gas guzzling cars no-popular? Who would have thought it? Why, WHY? Were do they get these people?

What degree... What experience, what job qualifications get you into the position of Car Executive, seriously now, how does someone get that kind of job?

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Post by FSTargetDrone »

After owning 2 Nissan Maximas, 1 Volkswagen Jetta and a Ford Mustang over the past 10 years, my father bought a Mini Cooper in 2006 because of gas prices. He does a lot of driving for his business and averages roughly 35-40 MPG with his manual transmission Mini.
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Post by Patrick Degan »

Now owners of SUVs and other gas guzzlers who’ve seen the price of a fill-up climb sharply are getting a second shock when they try to trade in their behemoths. Used car dealers don’t want the big vehicles on their lots anymore because hardly anyone is buying them. Some won’t take them at any price.
I started laughing at them when gas was still below $2/gallon, because I knew this most oil-soaked maladministration and their pals at the least were going to start opening the way for price-gouging, with their wars in the Mideast causing jitters in the oil market and based in part on how Enron was allowed to get away with outright theft until the roof caved in on them. When the other signs that the relatively-cheap-gas days were headed for their end, I laughed harder. Anybody who bought these tanks deserves to get financially ass-raped at the pump and in the used car market when they'd try unloading them. But they were convinced the party was never going to end with the trucks Jeebus would drive. Well, party's over.
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Post by Phantasee »

How exactly does a manual transmission improve fuel efficiency over an automatic? Several people have told me I'm lucky I know how to drive stick, since it saves me on gas, apparently. I just don't really understand that, other than the manual maybe being lighter than the automatic transmission?
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Post by aerius »

Phantasee wrote:How exactly does a manual transmission improve fuel efficiency over an automatic?
The torque convertor in an automatic slips in the lower gears which wastes some energy. Plus with a manual, you can short shift the gears and gain some efficiency that way.
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Post by Broomstick »

Properly driven, a manual transmission is slightly more efficient than an automatic. But that's a big qualifier - many, if not most, people in the US who drive manuals know very little about wringing the maximum efficiency out of their vehicle. As a result, it is entirely possible for, in two otherwise identical cars, an automatic transmission to be more fuel efficient than a manual depending upon the drivers. Speeding, unnecessarily fast acceleration, screeching halts, and so forth all degrade gas mileage. Not to mention the issues of vehicle maintenance, tire inflation, etc. One reason we get good mileage out of our vehicles is that once a month I check the pressure in all the tires and adjust when necessary. If there's no traffic on the road I might coast to a stop or a redlight instead of maintaining speed. And so on and so forth.

We do have a 6-cylinder engine in the truck, but we tend to use it only where it makes sense to actually use a truck - hauling materials, objects, etc. We don't use it as a daily commuting vehicle. (It's also our spare vehicle, but most of the time we could do very nicely with just the car).
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Post by Stark »

aerius wrote:The torque convertor in an automatic slips in the lower gears which wastes some energy. Plus with a manual, you can short shift the gears and gain some efficiency that way.
I think the common perception of 'poor efficiency' auto transmissions is based on the older auto transmissions common in our parent's lifetimes. A modern auto transmission is far better.
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Post by FSTargetDrone »

My father bought the stick because he prefers driving a stick, knows how to do it correctly and because it was cheaper.
Broomstick wrote:Speeding, unnecessarily fast acceleration, screeching halts, and so forth all degrade gas mileage. Not to mention the issues of vehicle maintenance, tire inflation, etc. One reason we get good mileage out of our vehicles is that once a month I check the pressure in all the tires and adjust when necessary. If there's no traffic on the road I might coast to a stop or a redlight instead of maintaining speed. And so on and so forth.
These are all important points. How many times do you see people roaring along a road with multiple traffic lights only to quickly stop at the just-turned-red light and then speed up again to the next light?

I try to drive as efficiently as possible, gradually pulling away from a stop, coasting to a red as much as possible, as you do (actually, I try to anticipate the light changing back to green on empty roads, avoiding the red when I can).

Using cruise control on flat stretches of roads (not hills) is also more efficient.
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Post by Enigma »

I laugh at those that complain about gas prices. I really do. I'd love to just have to fuel up once a week or once every two weeks instead of every two days.

*sigh*I'll be doing the reverse and eventually replace my 2001 Nissan Sentra for a Ford Taurus station wagon as my car is not economically feasible to maintain and I need a larger vehicle to make more money.
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Post by Broomstick »

A manual transmission requires more from the driver. A knowledgeable and skilled driver can be very efficient, but it takes time and experience to get to that state (education, of course, helps). An automatic transmission does most of the thinking for the driver. A modern automatic is probably a better engine manager than the average US driver. I'd guess that for most people in the US the difference in mileage would be minimal
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Post by Phantasee »

Got any tips for me? I only learned how to drive a manual back in December, and I'm still not set in my ways, so I'm hoping I can learn a few good habits when it comes to shifting. I know how to make it go fast (R is for Race!), but how do I make it go efficient?
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Post by Singular Intellect »

And behold, that warm fuzzy feeling I got buying my hybrid car is even more warm and fuzzy.. Over three hundred kilometers I've put on it and the tank is still almost still full.
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Post by Singular Intellect »

Bubble Boy wrote:And behold, that warm fuzzy feeling I got buying my hybrid car is even more warm and fuzzy.. Over three hundred kilometers I've put on it and the tank is still almost still full.
Erm, still almost half full that should've said. :roll:
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Post by FSTargetDrone »

I drove a hybrid over the weekend for the very first time. At a family party on Saturday, I got to finally get a close look at the Nissan Altima gas/electric hybrid belonging to one of my uncles. He bought it last year, bu tI never got the chance to see it up close. He immediately offered to take it for a drive, so we went for a short trip. It's really strange at first driving along with a essentially silent ride! It felt like a golf cart, but obviously different. It was weird because it sounded almost as if the regular motor stalled, but without any of the associated sputtering and such, yet I literally still had power and could accelerate, of course. The car's gas engine came on and off depending on the speed, but driving around the side streets, it stayed off more than it came on. The dashboard had a large gauge for the battery which was new to me.
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Post by tim31 »

I was going to say, WOAH MAGIC CAR.

Manuals are generally worse than autos in the cut and thrust of communter traffic; as Stark said, modern five and six ratio slushboxes are built with a wealth of real world experience.
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Post by Aorus »

Got any tips for me? I only learned how to drive a manual back in December, and I'm still not set in my ways, so I'm hoping I can learn a few good habits when it comes to shifting. I know how to make it go fast (R is for Race!), but how do I make it go efficient?
Probably the best thing you can do on a standard is drive in the lowest gear possible (i.e. so that the car doesn't stutter). You can also downshift in order to slow down and save your brakes somewhat. Ease up on the clutch slowly when you do this, though, otherwise it can be rather jerky.

Other than that, follow the same guidelines that apply to any car (keep it well maintained, low acceleration/deceleration, etc.)
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Post by Sam Or I »

Its kinda ironic, I am biking to work, to save money on gas. To make a down payment on a V-8 muscle car.

I am looking at a 2010 Dodge Challenger. (Hopefully they have a T/A edition.)
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Post by Darth Wong »

Aorus wrote:
Got any tips for me? I only learned how to drive a manual back in December, and I'm still not set in my ways, so I'm hoping I can learn a few good habits when it comes to shifting. I know how to make it go fast (R is for Race!), but how do I make it go efficient?
Probably the best thing you can do on a standard is drive in the lowest gear possible (i.e. so that the car doesn't stutter). You can also downshift in order to slow down and save your brakes somewhat. Ease up on the clutch slowly when you do this, though, otherwise it can be rather jerky.

Other than that, follow the same guidelines that apply to any car (keep it well maintained, low acceleration/deceleration, etc.)
How does that make sense? In the lowest gear, your engine rpms are higher, so you burn more gas. You're supposed to shift to a higher gear, so your engine rpms drop down.
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Post by Terralthra »

Also, engine-braking causes over-revving, which goes right back to the engine running faster than it needs to run, ergo fuel wastage (also, additional wear on the clutch and synchros). Brake pads are supposed to be worn down, that's why they're easily and cheaply replaceable.
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Post by Sea Skimmer »

tim31 wrote:I was going to say, WOAH MAGIC CAR.

Manuals are generally worse than autos in the cut and thrust of communter traffic; as Stark said, modern five and six ratio slushboxes are built with a wealth of real world experience.
It used to be true that automatics got worse mileage then manual, but that was when 99% of all automatics had only three or four forward gears plus an overdrive. A lot of new automatics (and semi automatics) have five or six forward gears, plus in some cases two overdrives. The advantage of more possible gear ratios plus faster shift times lets them do better then any manual ever could. Unfortunately the economy gains to be had from increasing numbers the number of gear ratios are pretty much already used up by the new designs, and continuously variable transmissions remain troublesome.
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Post by FSTargetDrone »

Sam Or I wrote:Its kinda ironic, I am biking to work, to save money on gas. To make a down payment on a V-8 muscle car.

I am looking at a 2010 Dodge Challenger. (Hopefully they have a T/A edition.)
No offense, but I hope that car gets better mileage than the 2008 model:
With all of the spy shots, leaked covers and embargoed images of the 2008 Dodge Challenger on the web already, we're not sure how Chrysler feels about any more information getting out on its modern muscle car. Some information, however, is public access, like fuel economy ratings and other specs that are posted by the EPA on its website, fueleconomy.gov. The 2008 Dodge Challenger has already been added to the site and is reported to get 13 mpg city and 18 mpg on the highway. Since the 2008 MY Challenger will be just the SRT8 model with the five-speed automatic, these figures are for the familiar 6.1L HEMI V8 used in other SRT products like the Dodge Charger SRT8 and Chrysler 300 SRT8, both of which also achieve the same fuel economy numbers. According to the EPA, driving the Challenger SRT8 a distance of 25 miles will cost you around $5.50, and you'll be spending around $3,302 per year on gas.

[Source: fueleconomy.gov]
13-18 mpg. That's just... horrible. :D I don't know, if I were looking at a new car, it would be one with the best mileage I could afford, right up there with safety considerations.
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Post by Shinova »

I don't understand how these American cars have such poor performance compared to cars from other countries.


Totally different segments I know, but Benz has AMG cars with 6 litre turbocharged V12 with 604hp and around 700 lb lb-ft of torque with a fuel economy of 11 city and 17 highway. That's stil bad, but compared to that Dodge Challenger's stats it's a lot more power for just a little less fuel economy. I'm sure the turbocharger has much to do with the added power, which begs the question why American companies don't do the same and instead make oversized, poor performance engines.


Someone mentioned that it's cause bigger engines run longer, but does that extra longevity really make a difference unless you're owning that car for years and years?
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Post by Gerald Tarrant »

Shinova wrote:I don't understand how these American cars have such poor performance compared to cars from other countries.
American gas prices at the pump have been much lower than European prices, principally because the EU countries have much higher gas taxes. That pushed European consumers to ask for better gas-mileage, which in turn pushed auto-makers in the European market to accommodate them with more efficient cars. The principle market of American auto makers was America, where gas was cheap. The point of the article was that high prices are forcing a change to the status quo.
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