The Global Food Crisis

[Broomstick]

US round-eyes DO eat rice, you know!

I know I was pointing it out because some morons like to point their finger and go "HURR, it's just the asians buying up all the rice!", rather than acknowledge that there's a crisis coming on.

Oh, fuck you and your strawmen. The US consumes rice, but (like virtually all countries) exhibits a strong preference for DOMESTIC STRAINS OF RICE (e.g., Cal Rose, brown rice and southern long-grain in the US, basmati variants in India, jasmine in Thailand, etc.). Moreover, American consumption of rice, per capita, is very small compared to most other parts of teh world. US per capita consumption is less than 25 pounds per year, and that includes all of the rice we use as an intermediate good in making cereals, beer and other grain products, etc.

Yes, but people such as him are balanced out by people such as me - my household easily eats 4 pounds of rice a week (due both to liking rice and being unable to eat two other common grains) for a total of about 200 lbs a year just for us - around 90 kilos a year, or, split between two people, 45 kilos each. That's not on the level of Asia countries, but it IS significant. It makes sense for someone such as myself to buy rice by the 10 and 20 pound (or even kilo) units because we actually eat that much in a reasonably short time.

I did stock up a bit this weekend - I bought a month's worth of rice. Woo-hoo. The point being, even though I'm a heavy rice consumer (for an American) I didn't see the need to buy 100 lbs of the stuff. I am looking into purchasing on-line, but not just for rice but other staples as well, purely as a means to save money. I'd be doing that regardless. Those who don't eat rice as fast as I do but are going out and buying (for them) mass quantities are silly at best.

But, moreover, virtually all of their rice is supplied domestically, explaining the very small overall world market for rice that Chris alluded to (noting that Australia--a drought-stricken country--remains one of the world's largest exporters).

Would the hungry in the affected countries be willing to eat foreign rice? Seems silly to me - I would switch to alternatives if that made economic/survival sense - but some cultures are VERY static regarding these things. I realize Cal rose and long grain aren't like basmati, et al but in the short term would the hungry be willing to switch, and would those nations be willing to import?

Frankly, I'm willing to bet money that your 100 pounds of rice will largely spoil because you won't eat it

Storage is also an issue - I keep my brown rice refrigerated. Most people wouldn't know to do this. White rice is not so storage sensitive, but long-term much be properly stored or it does, eventually, go off. Properly stored it can last several years (yes, the nutrition degrades over time, but Americans are not so malnourished that even a 50% drop in their rice's nutrition is going to put them at risk of anything).

Americans are jumpy right now because the economy sucks, everyone is afraid they're going to lose their jobs (except for those of us who already have), prices are rising, pay is not, and they don't know what the fuck to do to fix the problem(s). Panic buying is a symptom of such jitters - after 9/11 we saw similar, even in Europe, particuarly among the WWII generation who feared war and shortages. Usually it passes relatively quickly in areas that aren't undergoing an actual crisis - the big problem is what to do where there IS a real crisis.

The real solution to US economic problems, on the level of individuals, is to live more frugally: drive less, eat more vegees and less meat (smaller portions wouldn't hurt, either), plant a garden, downsize homes, downsize vehicles, etc. Of course, there is MASSIVE cultural resistance to this, just as there can be massive cultural resistance to Asian countries changing what variety of rice they eat, or people refusing to eat nutritious food because their Magical Sky Pixie told them no.

[Master of Ossus]

Oh, fuck you and your strawmen.

What the fuck? I wasn't referring to YOU saying that. But if you want to be a cock, be my guest.

Yet you're providing an explanation for a post in this thread. So point out: who has advocated such a position in this thread?

But moreover, let's take a look at your earlier statements and check for self-consistency, shall we?

I rarely cook rice personally, yes. How does this invalidate what I have to say? In fact, this SUPPORTS my statements - people who would, on average, not be buying large quantities of rice, are doing so.

No. It's not an insurance policy for the collapse of civilization. If that happens, a bit of rice isn't going to save me. You misunderstand me completely.

Forgetting the context in which you made your own statements?

Clearly the answer to this food crisis is not to hoard food, one should instead murder their neighbors so as to reduce overall demand!

Brilliant!

Frankly, Shep, right now isn't the time to worry about how inefficient it is for rice to be grown - it's time to start worrying about if you'll have food to eat 3 months down the road. And a 60-pound sack of rice is a very nice bit of insurance for that.

I personally am buying it in anticipation of what Alan Bolte said - Here, let me quote him.

I think Ossus is sort of right. If you live in the U.S., there's no need to stock up on food because there won't be enough to go around in three months, rather it looks smart to stock up because prices are soaring right now and even if you don't lose your job you certainly aren't getting a raise in line with food and fuel price increases. I find it unlikely that prices will properly go back to normal in three months, but they could easily level off or fall a bit by then. Hell, they could do it tomorrow, things are so volatile. Some of it is driven by panic, to be sure, but mostly it's rational self-interest.

Bolding mine.

Prices ARE going to go up, and having the ability on-hand to feed myself one or two meals a week from stocks laid in earlier, when prices were lower, instead of blowing progressively larger portions of a relatively fixed paycheck on food for every single day, seems awful smart to me. Do you honestly think I plan on eating rice and beans every single day for the next 6 months or a year? No.

1. Do you seriously take that post of his and assume that this justifies purchasing what, for the average American (and, it seems, for you), is a FOUR YEAR supply of rice? Do you seriously not recognize how absurd your behavior is?

2. You don't even eat the stuff--how is a price increase of rice going to affect you? It's like saying, "Oh, shit. The price of whale meat is going through the roof. I'd better go get me a whale." Do you seriously not view this as a wasted expenditure? For someone who doesn't even have a rice cooker?

I have made no point on that subject - Marina did. I mean, I'm flattered that you've confused the Countess and myself. But how about you wipe the vitriol from your face, quit squinting, and attribute the arguments to whoever actually brought it up?

I didn't confuse you and Marina, you snot-nosed little shit. That whole line of argument started when you told Shep he needed to worry about whether there would be food on his table in three months.

You have no idea how long rice lasts when properly stored, do you? And I have every intention of storing it properly. In this manner, it will be perfectly good to eat, whether it potentially be a few months from now, when potentially there is nothing to eat, or potentially a few years from now when I realize "Gosh, I sure was silly back then.". (Though I think I'll buy myself a nice rice cooker, and get in the habit - it's really quite healthy.)

News flash for the moron: I eat rice regularly. That doesn't justify buying a FOUR YEAR SUPPLY of rice because of what everyone is saying will be a short-term issue.

And, hey, if I AM wrong, and I never need any of what I'm buying - Well, I'm only down about $40, and, hell, I'll even come on here and give you the concession you're aching for.

Yeah, but you're not apologizing to the starving kids in Asia--the whole point.

and that you're not going to apologize to the people in the world who WILL starve for lack of food, and because people like you pulled US rice off the export market in the first place. I say this not to single you out: I'm sure that a significant fraction of the people buying rice, right now, are doing it because Chicken Littles like you and the US news media are incapable of realistically assessing the situation, and none of them are going to apologize, either. In the meantime, enjoy your Cal Rose (or whatever you decided to get). And if anyone ever DOES claim that it's just Asians buying up rice, proudly raise your hand and describe how you, in fact, have been buying up rice, too, and effectively taking it out of their starving little mouths.

I'm sorry, am I supposed to apologize for planning ahead to ensure my own self-interest?

First of all, you're not even acting in your own self-interest. That would require for your actions to be consistent with the problems that you foresee. They're not. No, you're supposed to apologize for screwing people who actually ARE facing starvation based on your own scare-mongering and your willingness to buy what for you is a FOUR YEAR SUPPLY (and, for you, it seems like a lot more since you don't even have a rice cooker) of what for them is an essential foodstuff. You're supposed to apologize for using your rampant fear-mongering as an excuse for your behavior, which only exacerbates other peoples' suffering.

And next time, try to at least maintain a SEMBLANCE of self-consistency?

How about you quit rushing around, foaming at the mouth, looking for an argument with the wrong person entirely? No wonder I don't look consistent, if you're attributing someone else's posts to me.

No I'm not, asshole. I've even put your moronic statements in context. Your only self-consistency in this thread is as a panic-driven little shit whose response to a short-term issue with the supply of rice is to go buy FOUR YEARS worth of the stuff to hoard in his basement. While people starve. You have no answer for this point.

[Colonel Olrik]

Hmm, I cook delicious rice a couple times a week without a rice cooker, just a normal pan.

[Master of Ossus]

Yes, but people such as him are balanced out by people such as me - my household easily eats 4 pounds of rice a week (due both to liking rice and being unable to eat two other common grains) for a total of about 200 lbs a year just for us - around 90 kilos a year, or, split between two people, 45 kilos each. That's not on the level of Asia countries, but it IS significant. It makes sense for someone such as myself to buy rice by the 10 and 20 pound (or even kilo) units because we actually eat that much in a reasonably short time.

Okay, by "balanced" you mean that American consumption of rice is <25 pounds per year. Obviously there will be individuals and households that consume dramatically more than that, but many, many more households consume less than 25 pounds per year--including KlavoHunter, it seems.

I did stock up a bit this weekend - I bought a month's worth of rice. Woo-hoo. The point being, even though I'm a heavy rice consumer (for an American) I didn't see the need to buy 100 lbs of the stuff. I am looking into purchasing on-line, but not just for rice but other staples as well, purely as a means to save money. I'd be doing that regardless. Those who don't eat rice as fast as I do but are going out and buying (for them) mass quantities are silly at best.

For you it makes sense to buy rice in bulk, anyway. What I object to is people buying huge quantities of foodstuffs they don't even eat.

But, moreover, virtually all of their rice is supplied domestically, explaining the very small overall world market for rice that Chris alluded to (noting that Australia--a drought-stricken country--remains one of the world's largest exporters).

Would the hungry in the affected countries be willing to eat foreign rice? Seems silly to me - I would switch to alternatives if that made economic/survival sense - but some cultures are VERY static regarding these things. I realize Cal rose and long grain aren't like basmati, et al but in the short term would the hungry be willing to switch, and would those nations be willing to import?

They already import SOME rice from the US, but moreover others are claiming here that this IS a survival situation for them. In any case, if the US demand for rice increases, that WILL lead to fewer exports in comparison to a situation in which the US demand for rice remains static. That's just a fact.

Frankly, I'm willing to bet money that your 100 pounds of rice will largely spoil because you won't eat it

Storage is also an issue - I keep my brown rice refrigerated. Most people wouldn't know to do this. White rice is not so storage sensitive, but long-term much be properly stored or it does, eventually, go off. Properly stored it can last several years (yes, the nutrition degrades over time, but Americans are not so malnourished that even a 50% drop in their rice's nutrition is going to put them at risk of anything).

Even that's not what I object to. Let me say this in plain English so everyone is clear:

KlavoHunter's solution to a projected price increase in a food he does not eat is to purchase what for someone else would be a four years' supply of that food.

Americans are jumpy right now because the economy sucks, everyone is afraid they're going to lose their jobs (except for those of us who already have), prices are rising, pay is not, and they don't know what the fuck to do to fix the problem(s). Panic buying is a symptom of such jitters - after 9/11 we saw similar, even in Europe, particuarly among the WWII generation who feared war and shortages. Usually it passes relatively quickly in areas that aren't undergoing an actual crisis - the big problem is what to do where there IS a real crisis.

So, because people are scared, I'm supposed to condone irrational behavior?

The real solution to US economic problems, on the level of individuals, is to live more frugally: drive less, eat more vegees and less meat (smaller portions wouldn't hurt, either), plant a garden, downsize homes, downsize vehicles, etc. Of course, there is MASSIVE cultural resistance to this, just as there can be massive cultural resistance to Asian countries changing what variety of rice they eat, or people refusing to eat nutritious food because their Magical Sky Pixie told them no.

Yet KlavoHunter is running around telling people that there won't be food on our tables in three months. That's not the same as "smaller portions," etc.

[K. A. Pital]

So he actually advocates food hoarding because...?

Seriously, MoO is right. Hoarding is bad; but irrational hoarding such as KlavoHunter's is even worse. KlavoHunter does not need a 4 year rice supply unless he prepares for a momentary global catastrophy or something.

Klavo, you did a profoundly stupid thing.

Well, I'm only down about $40

$40 is a monthly supply of not just food, but all living costs together for a world's poor person. You just spend that for no other reason than stupid scare. You're callous, man.

Why didn't you stoff on some particulary expensive food, that only an American can really afford to hoard, instead of hoarding rice - the cheap and essential culture for the poor's life?

I think you'd be better off trying to hoard pineapple conserves - something more corresponding to your buying abilities versus thirdworlders, than a rice bag.

[Broomstick]

Yes, but people such as him are balanced out by people such as me - my household easily eats 4 pounds of rice a week (due both to liking rice and being unable to eat two other common grains) for a total of about 200 lbs a year just for us - around 90 kilos a year, or, split between two people, 45 kilos each. That's not on the level of Asia countries, but it IS significant. It makes sense for someone such as myself to buy rice by the 10 and 20 pound (or even kilo) units because we actually eat that much in a reasonably short time.

Okay, by "balanced" you mean that American consumption of rice is <25 pounds per year. Obviously there will be individuals and households that consume dramatically more than that, but many, many more households consume less than 25 pounds per year--including KlavoHunter, it seems.

Perhaps I failed to convey my point that for some American households the price and supply of rice is a real issue. Of course, such households have the relative luxury (compared to the third world) of either switching to rice varieties that are not experiencing shortages, or switching to other grains entirely.

I did stock up a bit this weekend - I bought a month's worth of rice. Woo-hoo. The point being, even though I'm a heavy rice consumer (for an American) I didn't see the need to buy 100 lbs of the stuff. I am looking into purchasing on-line, but not just for rice but other staples as well, purely as a means to save money. I'd be doing that regardless. Those who don't eat rice as fast as I do but are going out and buying (for them) mass quantities are silly at best.

For you it makes sense to buy rice in bulk, anyway. What I object to is people buying huge quantities of foodstuffs they don't even eat.

Yes, we are in agreement here.

If someone DID do some irrational purchasing I would suggest that the donate the surplus before it goes bad to a local food bank, soup kitchen, or homeless shelter so it will actually feed someone. There are hungry folks in the US, too, who could certainly benefit from such a gift.

Frankly, I'm willing to bet money that your 100 pounds of rice will largely spoil because you won't eat it

Storage is also an issue - I keep my brown rice refrigerated. Most people wouldn't know to do this. White rice is not so storage sensitive, but long-term much be properly stored or it does, eventually, go off. Properly stored it can last several years (yes, the nutrition degrades over time, but Americans are not so malnourished that even a 50% drop in their rice's nutrition is going to put them at risk of anything).

Even that's not what I object to. Let me say this in plain English so everyone is clear:

KlavoHunter's solution to a projected price increase in a food he does not eat is to purchase what for someone else would be a four years' supply of that food.

Yes, we are also in agreement here. However, rather than yell at KlavoHunter (you are already doing a fine job, you don't need my help) I am now suggesting that he donate his purchase to some charitable organization that actually feeds the hungry where he lives. Such charities are enduring hard times right now. Such a donation would take a foolish act (buying something you don't eat in reaction to news stores) and turn it into a beneficial one (actually feeding hungry people). By the way - keep the receipt for that purchase if you still have it. You can claim that $40 rice donation as a charitable deduction on your taxes for this year.

Americans are jumpy right now because the economy sucks, everyone is afraid they're going to lose their jobs (except for those of us who already have), prices are rising, pay is not, and they don't know what the fuck to do to fix the problem(s). Panic buying is a symptom of such jitters - after 9/11 we saw similar, even in Europe, particuarly among the WWII generation who feared war and shortages. Usually it passes relatively quickly in areas that aren't undergoing an actual crisis - the big problem is what to do where there IS a real crisis.

So, because people are scared, I'm supposed to condone irrational behavior?

Oh, absolutely NOT condone it. Just don't be surprised when it happens. It always happens. First of all, the average person isn't terribly rational, and when it comes to food we've got biological programming (necessary for our ancestors' survival) that can also interfere with our logic. As I said, though, food banks are happy to help us correct such mistakes.

The real solution to US economic problems, on the level of individuals, is to live more frugally: drive less, eat more vegees and less meat (smaller portions wouldn't hurt, either), plant a garden, downsize homes, downsize vehicles, etc. Of course, there is MASSIVE cultural resistance to this, just as there can be massive cultural resistance to Asian countries changing what variety of rice they eat, or people refusing to eat nutritious food because their Magical Sky Pixie told them no.

Yet KlavoHunter is running around telling people that there won't be food on our tables in three months. That's not the same as "smaller portions," etc.

No, it's not, but as I said, you don't need my help in chewing out KlavoHunter, you're doing well all on your own.

[Xisiqomelir]

I don't understand how people can buy a huge bag of rice and say "Yes, this is what I shall eat for the next three months". Until the world comes apart at the seams and I have to shoot my way into Sam's Club I need more variety in my diet.

Are you on Atkins or some other anti-carb diet? Most cultures have at least one complex carbohydrate staple served with the main meals of the day.

Hmm, I cook delicious rice a couple times a week without a rice cooker, just a normal pan.

This is a great test of cooking skill. Unless I'm showing off, I usually use my cooker for the ease of it, though.

[His Divine Shadow]

What? Boiling rice in a pan is no harder than pasta or potatoes.

[aerius]

What? Boiling rice in a pan is no harder than pasta or potatoes.

Yep, did that all the time when I was in university. Once you get used to the stove it's a piece of cake, I still do it that way sometimes since firing up my rice cooker to make a single serving of rice seems kinda wrong.

[Dahak]

We don't eat rice that regularly, but sometimes. But I never felt the need for a special rice cooker...
And I would have to look for supermarkets selling rice in such huge amounts, really. The normal ones I frequent sell rice in "normal" amounts, like 500gr of it

[The Duchess of Zeon]

Even if that state of affairs changes, then US consumption patterns will change, but demand will still be met.

People said we'd start driving less and consuming less fuel in general, too, when the price went up--starting, oh, 7 years ago. Instead we just kept buying SUVs until the last year or so. You think that Americans are going to abandon their 4,000 + calorie diets because of the Magic of the Free Market telling them to? Not, at least, for years, by which point the damage in terms of chaos will be done.


P.S. Nice to see your Vendetta with the bout at public humiliation in your sig, you asshole. The fact that the United States may have temporary disruptions in some regions (I damn well know this isn't happening everywhere) due to this crisis by the end of the year--it isn't just a fact, it's already happened. I wouldn't be surprised if I go to Costco sometime this week and find a line of people waiting for rice--that is a Soviet-style breadline in the United States. It may not be national or permanent, but it is one, and would be the herald of worse things in years to come, even if a minor and temporary inconvenience for the moment. I don't believe things will get bad for another decade or so, after all, as I've said before. Consider the favour returned with your lunatic little comment about the Magic Free Market making people eat less food.

[Illuminatus Primus]

Oh please, Marina, you know you overstated your case. Expecting a single line for restricted varieties of rice in a fucking CostCo is not remotely an appropriate analogy for "Soviet-style breadline" and you know it.

True "Soviet-style breadlines" sure as shit will not be functioning in CostCo which are open for business and viable. The model will have failed before it gets to that point.

[Master of Ossus]

People said we'd start driving less and consuming less fuel in general, too, when the price went up--starting, oh, 7 years ago. Instead we just kept buying SUVs until the last year or so. You think that Americans are going to abandon their 4,000 + calorie diets because of the Magic of the Free Market telling them to? Not, at least, for years, by which point the damage in terms of chaos will be done.

I like how you state this when, at this VERY MOMENT, we have another thread in the same forum discussing how people are trying to trade in their SUV's for smaller vehicles.

P.S. Nice to see your Vendetta with the bout at public humiliation in your sig, you asshole. The fact that the United States may have temporary disruptions in some regions (I damn well know this isn't happening everywhere) due to this crisis by the end of the year--it isn't just a fact, it's already happened.

We've already experienced Soviet-style soup kitchens in the US? What was the point of predicting it sometime before the end of the year, then?

I wouldn't be surprised if I go to Costco sometime this week and find a line of people waiting for rice--that is a Soviet-style breadline in the United States. It may not be national or permanent, but it is one, and would be the herald of worse things in years to come, even if a minor and temporary inconvenience for the moment. I don't believe things will get bad for another decade or so, after all, as I've said before. Consider the favour returned with your lunatic little comment about the Magic Free Market making people eat less food.

Well, then we'll just wait for the end of the year, then, and see what happens, won't we?

And, btw, even if people DID wait around for rice (which, as you conceded, HASN'T happened, yet), that would not not be a Soviet-style breadline because there would still be other foodstuffs. The ludicrous nature of your statement is precisely in its hyperbole--something that even now you appear not to grasp.

[The Duchess of Zeon]

Oh please, Marina, you know you overstated your case. Expecting a single line for restricted varieties of rice in a fucking CostCo is not remotely an appropriate analogy for "Soviet-style breadline" and you know it.

True "Soviet-style breadlines" sure as shit will not be functioning in CostCo which are open for business and viable. The model will have failed before it gets to that point.

Overstated my case?

No, I'm simply melodramatic, and I think I can prove that just by pointing out my entire goddamned posting record here.

Granted, I had a bit of a shock, but I was not especially expecting the manager of a Costco to tell me he couldn't say when they'd get more rice in, in case they sparked FOOD RIOTS. The guy probably was talking out of his ass--but hearing that kind of stuff in America is shocking, thank you very much, and in such situations I tend for dramatic overstatement. We've only all be posting here for a very long time. You should know a rhetorical flourish by now.

[Master of Ossus]

Then again, I have people tell me baking bread and cleaning and gutting a fish are difficult tasks, too. Geez, people, it's not that hard. Tedious at times, yes, but not difficult

Personally, I find cooking rice on a stove a lot harder than baking bread or cleaning fish. It tends to boil over if you leave it too long while doing other things, so the rice cooker makes things a LOT easier for me and less annoying. I agree with you that there are certain kitchen skills that people probably should have, but don't, but the rice cooker works really well for me and I'm sticking by my story.

[Keevan_Colton]

Oh please, Marina, you know you overstated your case. Expecting a single line for restricted varieties of rice in a fucking CostCo is not remotely an appropriate analogy for "Soviet-style breadline" and you know it.

True "Soviet-style breadlines" sure as shit will not be functioning in CostCo which are open for business and viable. The model will have failed before it gets to that point.

I was rather amazed at the state of such things even a couple of years back in Canada, which is generally accepted as having better assistance for those at the lower end of the scale. While I was there I was astounded at the number of food banks and soup kitchens in operation there. Much like with rice cookers, I'd not encountered them before living in North America. There are some similar organisations here, but they tend to be geared towards redistribution of excess from industry, such as expired products from supermarkets. The sell by date generally having a margin built in...whereas in Toronto there were nearly a tenth of the population relying on them according to the statistics.

IP, you need to stop to consider how many people are already near the limit of their means simply covering the basic essentials of food and shelter...and how devastating even a minor rise to those costs will be given the scale of people falling into that bracket.

[Darth Wong]

I was rather amazed at the state of such things even a couple of years back in Canada, which is generally accepted as having better assistance for those at the lower end of the scale. While I was there I was astounded at the number of food banks and soup kitchens in operation there. Much like with rice cookers, I'd not encountered them before living in North America. There are some similar organisations here, but they tend to be geared towards redistribution of excess from industry, such as expired products from supermarkets. The sell by date generally having a margin built in...whereas in Toronto there were nearly a tenth of the population relying on them according to the statistics.

The problem with Toronto is that we have high rent costs, so people who insist on living here can't afford to pay for rent and food at the same time. On the one hand, it's easy to say that we should feel sorry for them. But on the other hand, why the fuck should they choose to live in the most expensive city in Canada if they have no jobs? When I lived out in smaller communities, they had no soup kitchens or shelters because they didn't need them. Welfare recipients were living high on the hog; hell, some of them would even laugh at people with jobs for being "suckers".

Every single one of the people you see in Toronto lining up at a soup kitchen is either off the system for some reason or could easily afford food if he simply relocated to a smaller community and continued to live off welfare. I don't know what it's like in Europe, but here the major cities are basically magnets for financially irresponsible people, because you can actually make a living begging here.

[Broomstick]

Then again, I have people tell me baking bread and cleaning and gutting a fish are difficult tasks, too. Geez, people, it's not that hard. Tedious at times, yes, but not difficult

Personally, I find cooking rice on a stove a lot harder than baking bread or cleaning fish. It tends to boil over if you leave it too long while doing other things, so the rice cooker makes things a LOT easier for me and less annoying. I agree with you that there are certain kitchen skills that people probably should have, but don't, but the rice cooker works really well for me and I'm sticking by my story.

Oh, don't get me wrong - I have nothing against rice cookers. If it works for you by all means use one. I just get a little cranked when I hear it's the ONLY way to cook rice. I've got such a routine going for rice cooking (or other grains) that the "boil over" problem almost never occurs anymore, but then I've been cooking for 35 years, I've had a lot of experience and experience counts.

There are certain things in my life that I do not do myself, or take the easy way out, because no one can be expert in all things. I expect others are the same way. It's when a person starts insisting that theirs is the ONLY way to do things or organize life that I start getting tiffed.

[The Duchess of Zeon]

I like how you state this when, at this VERY MOMENT, we have another thread in the same forum discussing how people are trying to trade in their SUV's for smaller vehicles.

You stupid idiotic shitcock, I accounted for that. I said it took seven years for the response to happen, I didn't deny it had happened.

I guess that means that in your economic terms the free market is working fine? So, let's get this straight: "There will be no problems with demand exceeding supply because demand will fall to the levels of supply after seven years in a non-equilibrium state."

So all the people who need food now, all over the world, can just get themselves fucked for a seven year period? Maybe wait that long to buy food? Brilliant argument there.

We've already experienced Soviet-style soup kitchens in the US? What was the point of predicting it sometime before the end of the year, then?

I said we've already had disruptions, you little bitch. Quit strawmanning me. Food lines may follow from that at some point this year; that's all I said, stop misrepresenting me.

Well, then we'll just wait for the end of the year, then, and see what happens, won't we?

Yeah, we damn well did.

And, btw, even if people DID wait around for rice (which, as you conceded, HASN'T happened, yet), that would not not be a Soviet-style breadline because there would still be other foodstuffs. The ludicrous nature of your statement is precisely in its hyperbole--something that even now you appear not to grasp.

And here you go demonstrating a basic idiocy once again. Soviet stores were not completely empty themselves--people had to wait because of the lack of just a few basic staples, you dumbshit. They were called Bread lines for a reason!

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

[Oh, don't get me wrong - I have nothing against rice cookers. If it works for you by all means use one. I just get a little cranked when I hear it's the ONLY way to cook rice. I've got such a routine going for rice cooking (or other grains) that the "boil over" problem almost never occurs anymore, but then I've been cooking for 35 years, I've had a lot of experience and experience counts.

You can cook rice with a pot with a cover. It is a bit tricky, but it can be done. Use medium fire, and monitor it and shut off the fire when all the bubbling is almost done.

[KlavoHunter]

Whatever, fuck you, MoO - I haven't the time to stress out over some very angry person dragging me into a charged, stressful debate - here you go, MoO, here's your concession, here's your e-blowjob. You win! Congrats! I'll leave the debating to the hard-core badasses like you who've got their strawmans and their ad hominems all linedup and ready to go.

[The Duchess of Zeon]

Oh please, Marina, you know you overstated your case. Expecting a single line for restricted varieties of rice in a fucking CostCo is not remotely an appropriate analogy for "Soviet-style breadline" and you know it.

True "Soviet-style breadlines" sure as shit will not be functioning in CostCo which are open for business and viable. The model will have failed before it gets to that point.

I was rather amazed at the state of such things even a couple of years back in Canada, which is generally accepted as having better assistance for those at the lower end of the scale. While I was there I was astounded at the number of food banks and soup kitchens in operation there. Much like with rice cookers, I'd not encountered them before living in North America. There are some similar organisations here, but they tend to be geared towards redistribution of excess from industry, such as expired products from supermarkets. The sell by date generally having a margin built in...whereas in Toronto there were nearly a tenth of the population relying on them according to the statistics.

IP, you need to stop to consider how many people are already near the limit of their means simply covering the basic essentials of food and shelter...and how devastating even a minor rise to those costs will be given the scale of people falling into that bracket.

Thank you, Keevan. I have spent the past 7 months watching as all of Amy and my's remaining savings dwindled away to keep us afloat. Amy has only just now been able to secure a job, despite graduating in August, commissurate with her biology degree she got from Georgia Tech, and even then she's only looking at $26,000 a year or so of income gross. That is going to give us a reserve, at our current levels of expenditure, of less than three thousand dollars for anything from emergency medical bills (we are of course uninsured) to food shocks over the course of the next 12 months. So while that fat fuck MOO pontificates about the free market, we're looking at reality, which is someone with a college science degree only able to find a job making about 25k a year after nine months of looking for some kind of employment beyond minimum wage shit! And I need to somehow limp through with my education through this.

And what's the response of the arrogant shits like MOO to problems like this, as when I briefly had a phone canvassing job for a nonprofit, "well, if you want health insurance, you should get a better job. All of those lazy idiots out there just need to go get jobs."

Like fucking hell--Amy spent 75% of a year looking for a better job, and it's still scarcely enough. She's worked 80 hour weeks (and is now because of a contract, for that matter!) to try and support us while I'm going back to school, when she's more employable than 70% of the US population, at least. We have a damn right if we want 250kg of rice to secure it, to isolate ourselves against future shocks in food price. We're on the fucking bleeding edge, and I can't wait to see those fat suburbanite pigs getting what's coming to them.

[Master of Ossus]

Whatever, fuck you, MoO - I haven't the time to stress out over some very angry person dragging me into a charged, stressful debate - here you go, MoO, here's your concession, here's your e-blowjob. You win! Congrats! I'll leave the debating to the hard-core badasses like you who've got their strawmans and their ad hominems all linedup and ready to go.

That's right, I'm so angry at people like you.... Oh, wait, I actually don't care one lick about you. I just find the way that idiots deal with potential future problems hilarious. And, btw, where did I strawman you? Where did I post an ad hominem attack against you? The fact that you don't like to have your bullshit stripped of its "I'm scared for myself" nonsense is irrelevant to me, and the debate. There's a reason why people who don't historically agree with me have been lining up in the thread to smack you down, too.

And, once again, I'm not the one you need to apologize to, anyway. You just can't apologize to the people who are hurt the most by your oblivious panic-button response.

[Illuminatus Primus]

Overstated my case?

No, I'm simply melodramatic, and I think I can prove that just by pointing out my entire goddamned posting record here.

Yeah and melodrama is defined by what? Exaggeration and false pathos. Nowhere near overstating, are we here.

[quote="The Duchess of Zeon"Granted, I had a bit of a shock, but I was not especially expecting the manager of a Costco to tell me he couldn't say when they'd get more rice in, in case they sparked FOOD RIOTS. The guy probably was talking out of his ass--but hearing that kind of stuff in America is shocking, thank you very much, and in such situations I tend for dramatic overstatement. We've only all be posting here for a very long time. You should know a rhetorical flourish by now.[/quote]

Don't throw a hissy fit if Ossus describes to you exactly why "Soviet-style breadlines" are ridiculous. "Vendetta" indeed. Start a Senate poll if you're so worried about rule violations.

I'm little pissed that anytime anyone dares question a panic - for any reason whatsoever - from amongst peakist or sustainability advocates that they get shouted down with shrill remarks and melodrama. This helps no one's case, and certainly doesn't sell anyone on the reasonable quality of ideas.

[Master of Ossus]

You stupid idiotic shitcock, I accounted for that. I said it took seven years for the response to happen, I didn't deny it had happened.

I guess that means that in your economic terms the free market is working fine? So, let's get this straight: "There will be no problems with demand exceeding supply because demand will fall to the levels of supply after seven years in a non-equilibrium state."

I love how, instead of thinking that maybe the recent rise in the real price of oil and gasoline have changed peoples' preferences in cars, you jump straight to "Economic theory doesn't work, and when it does work there's a seven-year lag-time."

Newsflash: the RECENT rise in oil and gasoline prices did not happen 7 years ago. It is this RECENT rise in oil and gasoline prices that the market is responding to; not stuff that happened in 2000 and 2001. What part of this is difficult for you to understand?

So all the people who need food now, all over the world, can just get themselves fucked for a seven year period? Maybe wait that long to buy food? Brilliant argument there.

Except that the market seems to have responded reasonably quickly to the RECENT RISE IN THE PRICE OF OIL AND GASOLINE. The price of gasoline was not nearly as high 7 years ago as it is, today. But go on, continue ignoring this fundamental point.

I said we've already had disruptions, you little bitch. Quit strawmanning me. Food lines may follow from that at some point this year; that's all I said, stop misrepresenting me.

I'm not strawmanning you--you claimed that we would have Soviet-style bread lines. That claim is so OBVIOUSLY indefensible that you're falling over yourself backpedaling, but it's not "misrepresenting" you to point out that your stated view in this thread is that people will have to wait in the US in the next 8 months to get basic foodstuffs.

Well, then we'll just wait for the end of the year, then, and see what happens, won't we?

Yeah, we damn well did.

We past tense did something that will happen in the future?

And here you go demonstrating a basic idiocy once again. Soviet stores were not completely empty themselves--people had to wait because of the lack of just a few basic staples, you dumbshit. They were called Bread lines for a reason!

Beautiful red herring and pointless dodge. Rice is not a food staple in the US--our annual per capita consumption of rice is a small fraction of that of many other countries in which it is a staple. Not having enough of a staple foodstuff is the point of the Soviet bread-line, dumbass, and the rice situation in the US is in NO WAY analogous to this. Any reasonable person who reads the thread will instantly recognize your arguments on this point as bullfuckery.

Edit: Per capita consumption of rice--I have no idea what our aggregate consumption is compared to a country like Taiwan, for instance, though it probably still pales in comparison with Chinese, Indian, or even Japanese and Korean annual consumption.