Brazilian Oil Ticks possibly replacing Saudi Oil Ticks....

N&P: Discuss governments, nations, politics and recent related news here.

Moderators: Alyrium Denryle, Edi, K. A. Pital

User avatar
Mayabird
Storytime!
Posts: 5970
Joined: 2003-11-26 04:31pm
Location: IA > GA

Post by Mayabird »

montypython wrote:At this point it would still make far more sense to use algae-based biofuels as a mass alternative energy source, at least those would eat up excess carbon in the atmosphere instead of just adding more into it.
If you make fuel out of it and then burn it, you're not eating up excess carbon. At best, you're just recycling it, because it'll be going right back into the atmosphere.

And let me know when you get that cellulosic ethanol or whatever working, assuming it doesn't end up becoming a pipe dream.
DPDarkPrimus is my boyfriend!

SDNW4 Nation: The Refuge And, on Nova Terra, Al-Stan the Totally and Completely Honest and Legitimate Weapons Dealer and Used Starship Salesman slept on a bed made of money, with a blaster under his pillow and his sombrero pulled over his face. This is to say, he slept very well indeed.
Lord of the Abyss
Village Idiot
Posts: 4046
Joined: 2005-06-15 12:21am
Location: The Abyss

Post by Lord of the Abyss »

Sidewinder wrote: Let's just withdraw our support from the Middle East (with the obvious exceptions of Israel and Turkey, of course) and turn a blind eye to the devastation the Islamists were/are/will wreak upon their own countries. By 2040, the people there might decide, "You know, we were actually better off when the Americans were here," and beg us to come back.[/Cynicism]
Unlikely. Islamist Iran is quite a bit better than American dominated Iraq. We actually make the Islamists, and the local tyrannies in general look good in comparison; we've turned Iraq into a propaganda piece vilifying America, and a great tool to discredit both involvement with America and democracy. When people there see us claim that we've brought democracy to Iraq, and see that Iraq is anarchic, and filled with suffering and corpses, they are willing to believe the claims of their leaders that democracy and/or America will only bring chaos and death.
User avatar
J
Kaye Elle Emenopey
Posts: 5837
Joined: 2002-12-14 02:23pm

Post by J »

Bloomberg link
Brazil Oil Trapped by 500-Degree Heat, Salt Barrier (Update1)

By Joe Carroll

April 28 (Bloomberg) -- Brazil's plan to become one of the world's biggest oil exporters hinges on exploiting crude six miles below the ocean surface in deposits so hot they can melt the metal used to carry uranium to nuclear plants.

Tapping what may be the biggest oil finds in the Western Hemisphere in three decades will require equipment that can withstand 18,000 pounds per square inch of pressure, enough to crush a pickup truck, pipes that can carry oil at temperatures above 500 degrees Fahrenheit (260 Celsius) and drill bits that can penetrate layers of salt more than one mile thick.

Petroleo Brasileiro SA, the state-controlled oil company, is betting on the Tupi and Carioca fields to become one of the world's seven biggest crude exporters. Until the tools needed to exploit the reservoirs are invented, the crude will remain locked under the sea, said Matt Cline, a U.S. Energy Department economist.

``This is a very, very technically challenging environment where no one's ever done this,'' Cline, who tracks the Latin American oil industry, said in a telephone interview from Washington. ``These discoveries are in very deep water, and once you get to the seabed they are very deep under the floor, with a layer of salt that is definitely a difficult barrier.''

Brazil's oil will be harder to develop than the Gulf of Mexico, where the deepest wells are now in production, Cline said. Exxon Mobil Corp. and Chevron Corp., the two biggest U.S. oil companies, saw diamond-crusted drill bits disintegrate and steel pipes crumple when they attempted to tap deposits beneath the Gulf's seafloor two years ago.

Uncharted Depth

Pumping oil from the Brazilian finds, parts of which are 32,000 feet (10,000 meters) below the ocean's surface, will require boring almost twice as far down as the world's deepest producing offshore well.

The obstacles will discourage development unless crude prices stay high, said Tina Vital, an analyst at Standard & Poor's in New York. U.S. oil futures reached a record at $119.93 a barrel in after-hours electronic trading yesterday.

Engineers will have to overcome temperatures that range from near freezing above the ocean floor to temperatures that can melt bismuth, used for transporting uranium rods and for shotgun shells. Layers of salt will also increase the challenge because the crystals absorb seismic waves used to pinpoint oil deposits.

Seismic Issue

``The seismic issue is important because if you don't identify the location of the oil properly, you're going to waste a lot of money when you drill the hole in the wrong spot,'' said Vital, a former Exxon engineer.

Brazil pumped 2.13 million barrels of oil a day in the last three months of 2007, more than OPEC members Angola, Libya and Algeria.

Tupi, 155 miles (250 kilometers) off Brazil's coast, may begin production by 2012, according to consulting firm Strategic Forecasting in Austin, Texas. The field may have 8 billion barrels of recoverable oil.

No start date has been set for Carioca, which Petroleo Brasileiro said will take at least three months to evaluate. A Brazilian regulator said this month the reservoir may have 33 billion barrels.

If confirmed by further drilling, the reserves will be triple the size of Alaska's Prudhoe Bay, the largest U.S. field.

Record Depth

The ocean-depth record for production was set last year by Anadarko Petroleum Corp. The company is extracting natural gas from beneath 8,960 feet of water in the Gulf of Mexico, where pressure measures 3,069 pounds per square inch, squeezing joints and tearing at seals.

``What we do at that water depth in the ocean is similar to NASA's space program, but they get to do it without any pressure trying to attack them,'' Kevin Renfro, production engineering manager at Woodlands, Texas-based Anadarko, said in a November interview.

Petrobras hasn't said how much it spent to sink wells at Tupi and Carioca. Similar drilling by Exxon and Chevron Corp. in the Gulf of Mexico cost $180 million to $200 million for each well.

``A big find might not be a good find if it costs so much to develop that it's not commercially viable,'' S&P's Vital said. ``We don't have any idea at all yet of all the costs that are going to be involved. Those costs are going to set the floor for oil prices.''

$50,000 Drill Bits

Chevron, which has the deepest Gulf of Mexico exploration well, including distance below the seafloor, destroyed as many as a dozen $50,000 drill bits at each of the 14 wells in its $4.7 billion Tahiti project.

Exxon Mobil abandoned a Gulf project that would have been the deepest well after pressure and heat shut down the venture in August 2006. The Irving, Texas-based company developed pipes tough enough to withstand temperatures that would shatter regular steel at its Sakhalin-1 project in Russia. The metal may help make Brazil's offshore fields accessible, Vital said.

``These challenges in the Brazilian offshore area are too great for any one company or even country to be able to digest themselves,'' Vital said.

To contact the reporter on this story: Joe Carroll in Chicago at jcarroll8@bloomberg.net.
So the oil might as well be on the moon given the difficulties involved with drilling & production. The oil is there but we can't suck it out. Also, the mention of 500°F temperatures would point more towards natural gas than oil, when temperatures are that high, hydrocarbons tend to be gases rather than liquids.
This post is a 100% natural organic product.
The slight variations in spelling and grammar enhance its individual character and beauty and in no way are to be considered flaws or defects


I'm not sure why people choose 'To Love is to Bury' as their wedding song...It's about a murder-suicide
- Margo Timmins


When it becomes serious, you have to lie
- Jean-Claude Juncker
User avatar
Darth Wong
Sith Lord
Sith Lord
Posts: 70028
Joined: 2002-07-03 12:25am
Location: Toronto, Canada
Contact:

Post by Darth Wong »

The great depth is a serious problem, as are the salt crystals. The author seems to have no concept of what the fuck temperature is, though. 260C is not that high, and when he says that "the temperatures can shatter steel", I can only assume he's an idiot.
Image
"It's not evil for God to do it. Or for someone to do it at God's command."- Jonathan Boyd on baby-killing

"you guys are fascinated with the use of those "rules of logic" to the extent that you don't really want to discussus anything."- GC

"I do not believe Russian Roulette is a stupid act" - Embracer of Darkness

"Viagra commercials appear to save lives" - tharkûn on US health care.

http://www.stardestroyer.net/Mike/RantMode/Blurbs.html
User avatar
Singular Intellect
Jedi Council Member
Posts: 2392
Joined: 2006-09-19 03:12pm
Location: Calgary, Alberta, Canada

Post by Singular Intellect »

Darth Wong wrote:The great depth is a serious problem, as are the salt crystals. The author seems to have no concept of what the fuck temperature is, though. 260C is not that high, and when he says that "the temperatures can shatter steel", I can only assume he's an idiot.
:wtf: Doesn't my frigging oven work at those temperature?
User avatar
Illuminatus Primus
All Seeing Eye
Posts: 15774
Joined: 2002-10-12 02:52pm
Location: Gainesville, Florida, USA
Contact:

Post by Illuminatus Primus »

Darth Wong wrote:The great depth is a serious problem, as are the salt crystals. The author seems to have no concept of what the fuck temperature is, though. 260C is not that high, and when he says that "the temperatures can shatter steel", I can only assume he's an idiot.
This is how much journalists reporting on crucial industries to the businessman or investor are expected to know according to demand. Yeah, I bet economists and businessmen really pay close attention to technical issues and what the guys on the ground say. :roll:
"You know what the problem with Hollywood is. They make shit. Unbelievable. Unremarkable. Shit." - Gabriel Shear, Swordfish

"This statement, in its utterly clueless hubristic stupidity, cannot be improved upon. I merely quote it in admiration of its perfection." - Garibaldi in reply to an incredibly stupid post.

The Fifth Illuminatus Primus | Warsie | Skeptical Empiricist | Florida Gator | Sustainability Advocate | Libertarian Socialist |
Image
User avatar
CaptainChewbacca
Browncoat Wookiee
Posts: 15746
Joined: 2003-05-06 02:36am
Location: Deep beneath Boatmurdered.

Post by CaptainChewbacca »

Bubble Boy wrote:
Darth Wong wrote:The great depth is a serious problem, as are the salt crystals. The author seems to have no concept of what the fuck temperature is, though. 260C is not that high, and when he says that "the temperatures can shatter steel", I can only assume he's an idiot.
:wtf: Doesn't my frigging oven work at those temperature?
My oven only goes up to 400 farenheit, you must have a newer model.
Stuart: The only problem is, I'm losing track of which universe I'm in.
You kinda look like Jesus. With a lightsaber.- Peregrin Toker
ImageImage
Kanastrous
Sith Acolyte
Posts: 6464
Joined: 2007-09-14 11:46pm
Location: SoCal

Post by Kanastrous »

Mine will go to (claimed) 525 degrees F on the thermo.

I don't use that kind of heat for anything apart from Tandoori Chicken, though.
I find myself endlessly fascinated by your career - Stark, in a fit of Nerd-Validation, November 3, 2011
User avatar
J
Kaye Elle Emenopey
Posts: 5837
Joined: 2002-12-14 02:23pm

Post by J »

Darth Wong wrote:The great depth is a serious problem, as are the salt crystals. The author seems to have no concept of what the fuck temperature is, though. 260C is not that high, and when he says that "the temperatures can shatter steel", I can only assume he's an idiot.
It's not the salt itself which the problem, salt is found as a barrier on top of many existing hydrocarbon reservoirs and we've been pumping them for ages. Rather, it's what the salt does when it's under countless tons of pressure, down at the depths & temperatures of the Tupi and Carioca fields the salt layer has the consistency of a Slurpee, it flows, caves in wellbores and eats up drill bits. It also makes the use of drilling "mud" (a heavy liquid used to lubricate drill bits, remove rock chips, and prevent blowouts) problematic as the mud can flow right into the salt and be lost which can destabilize the wellbore and cause all kinds of other issues.
This post is a 100% natural organic product.
The slight variations in spelling and grammar enhance its individual character and beauty and in no way are to be considered flaws or defects


I'm not sure why people choose 'To Love is to Bury' as their wedding song...It's about a murder-suicide
- Margo Timmins


When it becomes serious, you have to lie
- Jean-Claude Juncker
User avatar
Sidewinder
Sith Acolyte
Posts: 5466
Joined: 2005-05-18 10:23pm
Location: Feasting on those who fell in battle
Contact:

Post by Sidewinder »

Wow. Considering the costs to R & D oil drilling technology that'll work under those conditions, we might as well save the trouble and invest HEAVILY in alternative power sources. (I'm thinking biodiesel + diesel-electric hybrids. Will that help?)
Please do not make Americans fight giant monsters.

Those gun nuts do not understand the meaning of "overkill," and will simply use weapon after weapon of mass destruction (WMD) until the monster is dead, or until they run out of weapons.

They have more WMD than there are monsters for us to fight. (More insanity here.)
Post Reply