Principal outs gay students to stop PDAs

[Illuminatus Primus]

So you're saying that homophobia is uniform across the US?

If it wasn't then why do we keep seeing pro-gay marriage lay attempts get shot down across the country? Bigoted assholes are everywhere. The South just has a history of prominent bigotry.

It has a history, it fielded SEGREGATIONIST PLATFORM POTUS CANDIDATES WITHIN MANY PEOPLE'S LIFETIMES, and then RETAINED THE SAME CANDIDATE AS A SENATOR!

Are you saying the margins by which these laws pass in the South do not allow us to make conclusions compared to those in the north? What about the late date of repeal and close vote on anti-miscegenation laws?

Or are you engaging in the type of black/white fallacy common to Southern apologists where you say that if homophobia exists at all in other parts of the US, then it's just as bad as it is in the Confederate South?

Christ, not this shit again. Every time someone says "Hey, not everyone in the south is a bigoted confederate flag waving douche" you trot out that tired assed "southern apologist" bullshit.

Wow, such a refutation. We can MEASURE the level by which bigotry is more common and accepted in the South compared to elsewhere, and since its significant, that means the South is verifiably worse. You need it spelled out?

It's not a stereotype. Most of the people in the US who fly Confederate flags live in the South. The association between Confederate values and Southern values is NOT just a groundless stereotype; it has a real basis.

First you say it's not a stereotype and then you say it is. Make up your mind.

In any case, no shit it's a stereotype based on fact. Does that make it somehow right to toss out stereotypes now? Guess what, a lot of stereotypes are based on fact like that.

Its not an unfair stereotype, its a veritably appropriate generalization. If you're a gay man or black man or atheist or whatever and want a fair shake, its completely reasonable to guide them to many different states before those in the South. We can look at polls and see for ourselves just how popular bigotry is down there.

[Mr. Coffee]

And any of that makes bandwagoning a stereotype right for why?

[Superman]

So, what's to stop the students from suing the administrators out of existence?

I hear lawyers are expensive?

You know how many lawyers would pick this up on a contingency basis? The students could get an army of lawyers. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if that's what's going on right now.

[Oni Koneko Damien]

To put it bluntly: I can walk down the street here in the semi-rural Wisconsin town I live in my normal attire, kitty-ears and a gothy half-drag outfit, and all I have to worry about are some jeers and half-hearted threats from passing drivers. If I did the same in a semi-rural deep-south town... well, I wouldn't do it in the first place because I am really not that eager to be stalked, shot, and/or beaten down.

[Illuminatus Primus]

And any of that makes bandwagoning a stereotype right for why?

Because its appropriate. If it is a fair generalization that moving to Sub-Saharan Africa will effect the mortality and happiness of myself and future children, and therefore that's a good reason to avoid Sub-Saharan Africa, why is it irrational or unfair to point out the reasonable, evidence-substantiated societal characteristics of the American South that make it less desirable to live in? Is it unfair to say Afghanistan is a poorly developed tribal shithole? You seem to feel that maintaining impolitic but fair, and evidence-based generalizations is somehow wrong. I don't see why.

[Oni Koneko Damien]

And any of that makes bandwagoning a stereotype right for why?

Jesus assraping Christ, do you need it spelled out for you?

It's alright to 'bandwagon a stereotype' here because these cornfuckers are actively perpetrating and justifying that stereotype. You want the 'bandwagoning' to stop? Stop the vast majority of southerners from being racist, homophobic, bigoted fucktards. This is not an isolated case among otherwise decent folk. This is the status-fucking-quo of the south, and so long as it remains that way, calling the south a bunch of racist fucktards is entirely justified.

[Mr. Coffee]

To put it bluntly: I can walk down the street here in the semi-rural Wisconsin town I live in my normal attire, kitty-ears and a gothy half-drag outfit, and all I have to worry about are some jeers and half-hearted threats from passing drivers. If I did the same in a semi-rural deep-south town... well, I wouldn't do it in the first place because I am really not that eager to be stalked, shot, and/or beaten down.

I wouldn't do that either, but then again, our rural communities might be a little different. But with the exception of one county here in ALabama, I doubt you'd get anything worse then the same heckling you get up there. Seriously, it's not the 1960s here anymore. If my openly bisexual ass can survive and thrive down here, then you wouldn't have much to worry about either even with the cat ears.

[Darth Wong]

Mr. Coffee seems to think that if he calls something a "stereotype", then he instantly falsifies it regardless of whether empirical evidence can be presented.

[Havok]

Coffee has a very good point. The "Confederate South" is the poster child for slavery and racism obviously, but to blanket the whole region in 2008 as the way it was in the civil war is just as retarded and ignorant as saying "The Chinese can't drive" or whatever appropriate stereotype fits. It is a fucking stereotype that should be just as unacceptable as any other.

In my personal experience, racism and bigotry is alive and well in ALL of the US, from New York to San Fransisco. The two big differences that I see in the "south" and the rest of the country is that a very vocal, public and active group of racists are HQ'd there and the people there are more expressive of their thoughts and feelings in that region than the more reserved parts of the country.

Also, people seem to be easily mislead to believe that tolerance is the same thing as... I'm not sure if equality is the right word, but a less racist area. San Fransisco and it's Bay Area is commonly thought to be a place where racism is not very much alive. I can tell you that it very much is, but like I said, it is a more reserved area and people here don't vocalize it in such a public way.

[Darth Wong]

Coffee has a very good point. The "Confederate South" is the poster child for slavery and racism obviously, but to blanket the whole region in 2008 as the way it was in the civil war is just as retarded and ignorant as saying "The Chinese can't drive" or whatever appropriate stereotype fits. It is a fucking stereotype that should be just as unacceptable as any other.

In my personal experience, racism and bigotry is alive and well in ALL of the US, from New York to San Fransisco. The two big differences that I see in the "south" and the rest of the country is that a very vocal, public and active group of racists are HQ'd there and the people there are more expressive of their thoughts and feelings in that region than the more reserved parts of the country.

Ah, so there's no difference at all ... except for that particular difference

Does it ever occur to you why they might express their bigotry more openly? It's because it's more acceptable. That's the only reason such public expression would be common.

[Kanastrous]

These suggest that the South is pretty bad, but that California is, too.

[Oni Koneko Damien]

I wouldn't do that either, but then again, our rural communities might be a little different. But with the exception of one county here in ALabama, I doubt you'd get anything worse then the same heckling you get up there. Seriously, it's not the 1960s here anymore. If my openly bisexual ass can survive and thrive down here, then you wouldn't have much to worry about either even with the cat ears.

Protip: A single personal anecdote does not automatically refute the news stories of segregation, bigotry, homophobia and abuse that come from that region of the US at a rate that far exceeds any other region. Are you going to claim a conspiracy theory next and state that the media has an axe to grind against the south and reports a disproportionate amount of negative stories from that region?

Face it: The south is culturally far more degraded than the north, and the north isn't exactly a beacon of tolerance itself.

[Darth Wong]

Also, the North is a bit of an oversimplification. It's actually the Northeast, the Northwest, and the Midwest, and the Midwest is a pile of shit too. It's just that instead of Southern pride and the Confederacy, they have all of that "Heartland" bullshit.

[Mr. Coffee]

Mr. Coffee seems to think that if he calls something a "stereotype", then he instantly falsifies it regardless of whether empirical evidence can be presented.

You just said yourself not even fifteen fucking minutes ago it was a fucking stereotype, Mike.

The association between Confederate values and Southern values is NOT just a groundless stereotype; it has a real basis.

Like I said before, does any of that bullshit make it right to jump on a stereotype bandwagon?

[Havok]

To put it bluntly: I can walk down the street here in the semi-rural Wisconsin town I live in my normal attire, kitty-ears and a gothy half-drag outfit, and all I have to worry about are some jeers and half-hearted threats from passing drivers. If I did the same in a semi-rural deep-south town... well, I wouldn't do it in the first place because I am really not that eager to be stalked, shot, and/or beaten down.

You may not get stalked of beaten down, but the feelings and sentiments are the same. Obviously the physical situation is much better, but I wager that if they could they would.

[Kanastrous]

forgot to include the link...


hate crimes

[Darth Wong]

Mr. Coffee seems to think that if he calls something a "stereotype", then he instantly falsifies it regardless of whether empirical evidence can be presented.

You just said yourself not even fifteen fucking minutes ago it was a fucking stereotype, Mike.

It's IRRELEVANT whether it's a stereotype, moron. The question is whether it's ONLY a stereotype, or it actually has an empirical justification. What part of this are you too goddamned stupid to understand? I'm getting a little tired of the way you think the word "stereotype" is some sort of silver bullet.

The association between Confederate values and Southern values is NOT just a groundless stereotype; it has a real basis.

Like I said before, does any of that bullshit make it right to jump on a stereotype bandwagon?

See above, fool. And check this out too, from the FOXNews assholes bragging about the success of anti-gay measures in 2004.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,137424,00.html

11 gay marriage bans, passing by particularly huge margins in the South.

[Oni Koneko Damien]

<snip first map>

These suggest that the South is pretty bad, but that California is, too.

It really helps if we know what all those little dots on the map are actually indicating. I'm working on the assumption that it's recording the number and location of hate-crimes. The fact that California has some of the densest population centers in the US, I believe, makes that cluster of dots there rather misleading in terms of actual ratios of hate-crimes. Especially when you look and the even thicker cluster that make a swath across the not-so-densely populated regions of Georgia, Mississippi and Alabama, indicating a *much* higher ratio.

[Mr. Coffee]

Answer the fucking question, Mike. Does any of that shit make bandwagoning negative stereotypes right?

[Kanastrous]

<snip first map>

These suggest that the South is pretty bad, but that California is, too.

It really helps if we know what all those little dots on the map are actually indicating. I'm working on the assumption that it's recording the number and location of hate-crimes. The fact that California has some of the densest population centers in the US, I believe, makes that cluster of dots there rather misleading in terms of actual ratios of hate-crimes. Especially when you look and the even thicker cluster that make a swath across the not-so-densely populated regions of Georgia, Mississippi and Alabama, indicating a *much* higher ratio.

That's why I put up the link, which I should have done before...

[Mr. Coffee]

maps

Wow, look, I'm right! I bet if we laid a population density map over those we'd find that, golly gee, bigoted assholes are pretty evenly distrubted across the US.

[Oni Koneko Damien]

You may not get stalked of beaten down, but the feelings and sentiments are the same. Obviously the physical situation is much better, but I wager that if they could they would.

Which is rather telling in and of itself. In the south, the local government itself is openly supporting, or at the very least, willing enough to look the other way, that the homophobic fucks feel entirely safe assaulting someone like me. Up here, the law is at least willing to enforce some measure of tolerance, which is pretty much the only way to change such a culture: Stop them from exercising their hate through force of law until it hopefully winds its way out of the culture.

Also, the North is a bit of an oversimplification. It's actually the Northeast, the Northwest, and the Midwest, and the Midwest is a pile of shit too. It's just that instead of Southern pride and the Confederacy, they have all of that "Heartland" bullshit.

Oh I know that well enough. I live in arguably one of the most tolerant areas outside a large city, and there are places I don't dare show my crossdressing face in for fear of my own physical safety. But at least in the more public areas, the law is willing to enforce the right of minorities not to get the shit beat out of them, or harassed too much.

[Adrian Laguna]

the Midwest is a pile of shit too. It's just that instead of Southern pride and the Confederacy, they have all of that "Heartland" bullshit.

The large metropolitan around Chicago being a notable exception to this.

[Grandmaster Jogurt]

maps

Wow, look, I'm right! I bet if we laid a population density map over those we'd find that, golly gee, bigoted assholes are pretty evenly distrubted across the US.

Not quite.

Large states in the northeast and midwest have less hate groups than smaller ones in the south. California has 1.5 times the combined population of the four red states on the first map, but only one third their combined number of hate groups. Mid-sized states in the northwest and New England have roughly the same numbers as many of the smaller mountain and plains states.

The map does show that hate groups are unevenly concentrated in the old south and the middle of the nation.

[Mr. Coffee]

Point is, they're fucking everywhere and that first map shows anti-hate laws are pretty damned evenly distributed too.