Another KJA error?

Coiler · Post by **Coiler** » 2008-05-01 05:04pm

As anyone who has read Darksaber knows, Durga decided to build the titular craft in the Hoth system, as it was out of the way.

But just because it was out of the way in TESB, would it still logically be small and out of the way so much later, or would it be a well-known and often visited destination, like many former battlefields are today?

Or: Did KJA mess up again or is he blameless for this particular element?

Darth Fanboy · Post by **Darth Fanboy** » 2008-05-01 05:09pm

The answer is that this isn't just a KJA thing, lots of EU authors tend to revisit worlds shown in the movies in attempts to connect their books to the films better, but a lot of times they often fail. Backwater worlds should stay as such, but when you're a hack you do what you have to do to sell books to the brandwhores who will buy anything with the label on it.

KJA isn't the only one, but he is definitely does this as often as any other author, if not more so. In fact I think he's hit the trifecta, by bringing his craptastic stories to Yavin, Hoth, and Endor IIRC.

Coiler · Post by **Coiler** » 2008-05-01 05:18pm

Darth Fanboy wrote:The answer is that this isn't just a KJA thing, lots of EU authors tend to revisit worlds shown in the movies in attempts to connect their books to the films better, but a lot of times they often fail. Backwater worlds should stay as such, but when you're a hack you do what you have to do to sell books to the brandwhores who will buy anything with the label on it.

KJA isn't the only one, but he is definitely does this as often as any other author, if not more so. In fact I think he's hit the trifecta, by bringing his craptastic stories to Yavin, Hoth, and Endor IIRC.

I think you misunderstood me. I was asking if it made sense in universe to have Hoth stay as the backwater it was in TESB even after many years, and an important battle fought there?

Post by **RogueIce** » 2008-05-01 05:19pm

Darth Fanboy wrote:KJA isn't the only one, but he is definitely does this as often as any other author, if not more so. In fact I think he's hit the trifecta, by bringing his craptastic stories to Yavin, Hoth, and Endor IIRC.

What about Tatooine?

Anyway, in Darksaber there was some Hoth hunting group or something that Luke and Callista found. Along with the Super Wampa, Leader of All Wampas (the one Luke chopped an arm off of in ESB), although I don't know if he made that one up or he got it from some other EU source.

Jim Raynor · Post by **Jim Raynor** » 2008-05-01 07:02pm

RogueIce wrote:Along with the Super Wampa, Leader of All Wampas (the one Luke chopped an arm off of in ESB), although I don't know if he made that one up or he got it from some other EU source.

Wow that's retarded, and not only because it's rehashing stuff from the movies. A primitive predatory animal missing an arm not only survives for a decade in the frozen wastelands of Hoth, but becomes the fucking alpha male of its own pack?

If not KJA, then which retard thought that people actually wanted to see "Luke vs. Random Wampa, the REMATCH?"

Coiler · Post by **Coiler** » 2008-05-01 07:11pm

Jim Raynor wrote: If not KJA, then which retard thought that people actually wanted to see "Luke vs. Random Wampa, the REMATCH?"

I'm sure it's KJA-I don't remember seeing anything about the Wampa in other EU novels I've read, plus it sounds like something he would do.

KhyronTheBackstabber · Post by **KhyronTheBackstabber** » 2008-05-01 08:47pm

Coiler wrote:
I think you misunderstood me. I was asking if it made sense in universe to have Hoth stay as the backwater it was in TESB even after many years, and an important battle fought there?

Hoth wasn't really an important battle. A small band of rebels were hiding, the Empire found them, and they ran away. Nothing of importance was gained, or lost.

Havok · Post by **Havok** » 2008-05-01 09:33pm

RogueIce wrote:Along with the Super Wampa, Leader of All Wampas (the one Luke chopped an arm off of in ESB)

Oh, just fuck you Rogue. I had COMPLETELY forgotten about THAT!!

Themightytom · Post by **Themightytom** » 2008-05-01 11:05pm

havokeff wrote:
RogueIce wrote:Along with the Super Wampa, Leader of All Wampas (the one Luke chopped an arm off of in ESB)
Oh, just fuck you Rogue. I had COMPLETELY forgotten about THAT!!

i remember reading that and thinking "Now what are the chances on an entire ice planet of those two meeting again...?"

Post by **RogueIce** » 2008-05-01 11:58pm

Coiler wrote:I think you misunderstood me. I was asking if it made sense in universe to have Hoth stay as the backwater it was in TESB even after many years, and an important battle fought there?

Well it might be of some importance since the Heroes of Yavin were there and all. But I don't know how the New Republic treated old battlesites beyond the discouragment of scavenging mentioned in the Black Fleet Crisis Trilogy. Whether they preferred to just "leave it be" (only letting NR governmental agencies pick through stuff for intelligence value) or had any Historic Battle Sites I don't think has ever been mentioned.

Anyway, as I said above, Luke and Callista visited Hoth during the time the Hutts were constructing Darksaber, and they didn't seem to notice. Even if there is some visitiation to the planet, the asteroid belt seems far enough removed that they could build in secrecy there.

Darth Fanboy · Post by **Darth Fanboy** » 2008-05-02 01:57am

Coiler wrote: I think you misunderstood me. I was asking if it made sense in universe to have Hoth stay as the backwater it was in TESB even after many years, and an important battle fought there?

It didn't make any sense for the series to return there, which was the point of my rant. The only thing Hoth had to offer was that it was in a remote inhospitable location. So much so that Ozzel was willing to just skip by the planet entirely and dismiss it out of hand as a location for a base.

In universe, Hoth is in such a remote location, and has so little in the way of exploitable resources (if there is anything then it's too cold to get to it for it to be worthwhile apparently) that there is no reason for anyone to go there.

EDIT:
Just re-read RogueIce's post about Durga needing remoteness to build the Darksaber. While it makes sense to go back to the system, I still didn't see any need to go back to the planet except for KJA to have his Uberwanked Wampa.

RogueIce wrote:
What about Tatooine?

He edited the "Tales from Jabba's Palace", "Tales from the Mos Eisley Cantina", and "Tales of the Bounty Hunters" two of which take place exclusively on Tatooine, and another which is set there in part. If those count, although they technically aren't "revisits".

lord Martiya · Post by **lord Martiya** » 2008-05-02 03:46am

Jim Raynor wrote:If not KJA, then which retard thought that people actually wanted to see "Luke vs. Random Wampa, the REMATCH?"

Well, I want, because I'm bored to read idiocy only from Trekkie.

Darth Hoth · Post by **Darth Hoth** » 2008-05-02 07:02am

havokeff wrote:
RogueIce wrote:Along with the Super Wampa, Leader of All Wampas (the one Luke chopped an arm off of in ESB)
Oh, just fuck you Rogue. I had COMPLETELY forgotten about THAT!!

Oh, come on. It is not of the vile Traviss crap, it scarcely deserves more than one

.

Well, upon closer examination, perhaps one and a half...

Coiler · Post by **Coiler** » 2008-05-02 07:24am

KhyronTheBackstabber wrote: Hoth wasn't really an important battle. A small band of rebels were hiding, the Empire found them, and they ran away. Nothing of importance was gained, or lost.

I'd dispute the "lost" part. They had to leave most of their heavy equipment behind.

Sidewinder · Post by **Sidewinder** » 2008-05-02 01:53pm

It's not unusual for the site of an important battle to remain Middle-of-Nowhere, Alaska. That happens often enough in our world. (For comparison, look at Verdun, site of one of WWI's bloodiest battles. The population is 25,000, not 250,000, and you won't see any skyscrapers there.)

Darth Fanboy wrote:KJA isn't the only one, but he is definitely does this as often as any other author, if not more so. In fact I think he's hit the trifecta, by bringing his craptastic stories to Yavin, Hoth, and Endor IIRC.

Worse, the reason these places was visited was so Luke can lead Callista on a "pilgrimage" to places significant to him. I know Luke is a badass Jedi knight and a hero of the Rebellion, but this is like saying, "I am your god! Kneel down and worship me!" So in addition to being lobotomized and hit with the stupid stick 100x, Luke is now delusional?

Of course, considering the venom directed at Karen Traviss, it's a good thing KJA ruined any interest I had in later novels, so I was spared the Travissties.

Post by **RogueIce** » 2008-05-02 03:56pm

Sidewinder wrote:Worse, the reason these places was visited was so Luke can lead Callista on a "pilgrimage" to places significant to him. I know Luke is a badass Jedi knight and a hero of the Rebellion, but this is like saying, "I am your god! Kneel down and worship me!" So in addition to being lobotomized and hit with the stupid stick 100x, Luke is now delusional?

Well he went all "shut off from the universe naked hermit" in the BFC Trilogy for a little while. Then spent the rest of those three books on a fruitless search for someone who wasn't his mother and was basically entirely duped by that Fallenasi (sp) chick. Who taught him some "White Current" mumbo jumbo which, so far as I can tell, he never made use of or even mentioned again.

Actually, thinking back to what he did in Darksaber I'm not sure if it mattered less or not. He was pretty useless in both books (well, book and trilogy) if my memory serves. Which it might not, since I just skip the Luke sections in both because they're so damn boring.

Darth Yoshi · Post by **Darth Yoshi** » 2008-05-02 04:13pm

To nitpick, Luke used the Fallanasi illusion ability in the NJO to make a NR fleet look bigger than it actually was, although I don't remember which book that was.

Sweet Samus, BFC was just, ugh. Especially the Lando arc. Zahn was right to call it "the useless Qella thing".

Master_Baerne · Post by **Master_Baerne** » 2008-05-02 04:59pm

When I saw the title, my first though was "Well of course." Upon reading the point in discussion, my answer is no, it makes sense for Hoth to remain a backwater. There's nothing there but..heh, frozen water.

Post by **RogueIce** » 2008-05-02 05:10pm

Darth Yoshi wrote:To nitpick, Luke used the Fallanasi illusion ability in the NJO to make a NR fleet look bigger than it actually was, although I don't remember which book that was.

Ah. Well that would explain it, since I never really read much of the NJO.

Still, the rest of that arc was pretty pointless. Hell, he didn't even get laid by the Fallanasi chick. He just, uh, slept next to her naked.

Darth Yoshi wrote:Sweet Samus, BFC was just, ugh. Especially the Lando arc. Zahn was right to call it "the useless Qella thing".

Yeah. I'm not sure why he (the author) bothered with that. Did they do anything with the Qella later?

Amusingly, Drayson got Lando to go out there because he was bored. Which seems about right for that subplot. I don't think it even contributed to the main plot with the Yevethan War (at least the Fallanasi had a part in that plot, as I recall).

PainRack · Post by **PainRack** » 2008-05-03 09:20am

Darth Yoshi wrote:To nitpick, Luke used the Fallanasi illusion ability in the NJO to make a NR fleet look bigger than it actually was, although I don't remember which book that was.

Sweet Samus, BFC was just, ugh. Especially the Lando arc. Zahn was right to call it "the useless Qella thing".

Isn't that BFC? The NJO arc was that the Jedi used the Fallanasi illusion ability to help defend the Jedi Academy. Until the lack of trained Jedi as well as the persistance of the Peace Brigade penetrated the illusion.

RogueIce wrote: Well he went all "shut off from the universe naked hermit" in the BFC Trilogy for a little while. Then spent the rest of those three books on a fruitless search for someone who wasn't his mother and was basically entirely duped by that Fallenasi (sp) chick. Who taught him some "White Current" mumbo jumbo which, so far as I can tell, he never made use of or even mentioned again.

Actually, thinking back to what he did in Darksaber I'm not sure if it mattered less or not. He was pretty useless in both books (well, book and trilogy) if my memory serves. Which it might not, since I just skip the Luke sections in both because they're so damn boring.

To be honest. The whole pilgramme thing isn't new.I can't recall the name now, but there was this guide to the SWU which establishes that various tour agencies had set up shop on Tatooine, showcasing the place of Luke birth and etc. It was written in the early 90s and even had a "Stormtroopers rumours to be clones" entry.

Illuminatus Primus · Post by **Illuminatus Primus** » 2008-05-03 11:39am

Luke did make use of the White Current discipline; he learned shrouding and illusion techniques that were later deployed to conceal the Jedi praxeum at Yavin IV.

Illuminatus Primus · Post by **Illuminatus Primus** » 2008-05-03 11:39am

Darth Yoshi wrote:To nitpick, Luke used the Fallanasi illusion ability in the NJO to make a NR fleet look bigger than it actually was, although I don't remember which book that was.

Sweet Samus, BFC was just, ugh. Especially the Lando arc. Zahn was right to call it "the useless Qella thing".

Where did he call it that?

Crazedwraith · Post by **Crazedwraith** » 2008-05-03 02:27pm

Illuminatus Primus wrote:
Darth Yoshi wrote:To nitpick, Luke used the Fallanasi illusion ability in the NJO to make a NR fleet look bigger than it actually was, although I don't remember which book that was.

Sweet Samus, BFC was just, ugh. Especially the Lando arc. Zahn was right to call it "the useless Qella thing".
Where did he call it that?

In the Hand of Thrawn thing quite a lot of characters referred to Lando's search for "the useless Qella thing" Mainly Talon Karrade and his associates.