Principal outs gay students to stop PDAs

Havok · Post by **Havok** » 2008-05-01 03:23pm

Kanastrous wrote:
havokeff wrote:Coffee's issue is being labeled by a stereotype. He is a southerner that is the exact opposite of the "southern" stereotype, as he is not a bigoted, racist, confederate flag waving, intolerant, asshole. Why shouldn't he take offense to it?
That describes me, too, and *I* didn't find cause to take offense...

So what? He did. That is the issue. And he still lives there, you I'm assuming have been in L.A. for a while.

Mr. Coffee · Post by **Mr. Coffee** » 2008-05-01 03:37pm

Oni Koneko Damien wrote:Because one group makes a conscious choice to live up to those stereotypes and the other simply has a different coloured skin.

A black kid can choose not to become a part of a violent gang-culture. If he chooses to be a part of that, as a vast majority in inner cities do, then he's a fucking moron.

Members of BOTH groups make a choice to be ignorant douche bags, and because of those morons either group gets lumped with a stereotype. Skin color, sex, religion, or even where you live doesn't make a shit except to part of the name of the stereotype.

Oni Koneko Damien wrote:Why do you seem to think 'bigot' is some magical silver bullet here that requires no further explanation on your part?

Because it seems like people are trying to say it's bigoted to bag on stereotypes of one group but not bigoted to bag on the stereotypes of another group.

Superman · Post by **Superman** » 2008-05-01 03:42pm

havokeff wrote:Coffee's issue is being labeled by a stereotype. He is a southerner that is the exact opposite of the "southern" stereotype, as he is not a bigoted, racist, confederate flag waving, intolerant, asshole. Why shouldn't he take offense to it? If it was a black guy and someone had said black people are are all on welfare or all black people are poor or some other bullshit, would that be accepted here? I think that is Coffee's point.

I like coffee and what he usually has to say. His avatar is spiffy too. But, like my psychiatrist has been hammering into me every week for over a year now, words against you (or what you perceive to be against you) only have as much power as you let them have. Relax a little, Coffee.

I've lived in parts of northern California that are racist as hell. I knew that it was that way, even though I wasn't.

Kitsune · Post by **Kitsune** » 2008-05-01 04:01pm

This is a good time for an interesting story.....

When I was in the Navy Reserves, I served on a minesweeper. The idea of allowing Gays in the military was being discussed. This was long before "Don't Ask, Don't Tell."

One of the people in the discussion was an electrician and I think his "Day Job" was in electronics. He was more or less clean cut and likely a Yuppie by this looks and generally the way he talked. He made the comment, "Would you give mouth to mouth resuscitation to a fag?"

Other guy was grizzled and he was very old for his rank, he was a Damage Controlman. In many ways from discussions you would consider him a hillbilly and he was a truck driver. He was the one who stated, "I have worked with many gays and never had any problems with them."

I expected the first guy to not be prejudice and the second guy to be extremely prejudiced. It just shows how people can surprise you.....

Illuminatus Primus · Post by **Illuminatus Primus** » 2008-05-01 04:19pm

havokeff wrote:Coffee's issue is being labeled by a stereotype. He is a southerner that is the exact opposite of the "southern" stereotype, as he is not a bigoted, racist, confederate flag waving, intolerant, asshole. Why shouldn't he take offense to it? If it was a black guy and someone had said black people are are all on welfare or all black people are poor or some other bullshit, would that be accepted here? I think that is Coffee's point.

I live in fucking Gainesville, FL, man. Aside from the college this is hick nasty South. I am not offended, because I know I do not culturally issue forth from the vomit that is the Deep South.

Illuminatus Primus · Post by **Illuminatus Primus** » 2008-05-01 04:21pm

Mr. Coffee wrote:Because it seems like people are trying to say it's bigoted to bag on stereotypes of one group but not bigoted to bag on the stereotypes of another group.

Because the general Southern culture is a fucking choice and basket of ideologies, idiot. No one chooses to be black and being black does not necessarily say anything else about them other than their skin color.

Havok · Post by **Havok** » 2008-05-01 04:24pm

Illuminatus Primus wrote:
Mr. Coffee wrote:Because it seems like people are trying to say it's bigoted to bag on stereotypes of one group but not bigoted to bag on the stereotypes of another group.
Because the general Southern culture is a fucking choice and basket of ideologies, idiot. No one chooses to be black and being black does not necessarily say anything else about them other than their skin color.

That's fucking stupid. No one chooses to be born in the south. And it says nothing else about them except where they live. Yet just because you are born there you automatically get hit with the racist south stereotype.

Post by **Alyrium Denryle** » 2008-05-01 04:26pm

Illuminatus Primus wrote:
havokeff wrote:Coffee's issue is being labeled by a stereotype. He is a southerner that is the exact opposite of the "southern" stereotype, as he is not a bigoted, racist, confederate flag waving, intolerant, asshole. Why shouldn't he take offense to it? If it was a black guy and someone had said black people are are all on welfare or all black people are poor or some other bullshit, would that be accepted here? I think that is Coffee's point.
I live in fucking Gainesville, FL, man. Aside from the college this is hick nasty South. I am not offended, because I know I do not culturally issue forth from the vomit that is the Deep South.

And here I am having applied into the WEC Ph.D and masters programs... I am never going to be able to leave the campus, save to go do field work under the cover of darkness... and I am probably going to end up running back to campus, hitting university property and screaming "SANCTUARY!!" while being chased by an angry mob at some point...

General Zod · Post by **General Zod** » 2008-05-01 04:30pm

havokeff wrote: That's fucking stupid. No one chooses to be born in the south. And it says nothing else about them except where they live. Yet just because you are born there you automatically get hit with the racist south stereotype.

Way to completely miss the point. If someone happens to be living in the South and isn't a racist homophobic douche bag, good for them. But it's not going to change the fact that the South has a disproportionately high number of racist homophobes, and tends to blatantly encourage such mindsets in others.

Havok · Post by **Havok** » 2008-05-01 04:37pm

General Zod wrote:
havokeff wrote: That's fucking stupid. No one chooses to be born in the south. And it says nothing else about them except where they live. Yet just because you are born there you automatically get hit with the racist south stereotype.
Way to completely miss the point. If someone happens to be living in the South and isn't a racist homophobic douche bag, good for them. But it's not going to change the fact that the South has a disproportionately high number of racist homophobes, and tends to blatantly encourage such mindsets in others.

I didn't miss any point. IP said no one chooses to be black. And no one chooses to be born in the south. So what, is a little kid supposed to just move away from the South? No, they are just as stuck being "southern" as a black person is being black, at least for 18 years.
I'm not arguing against numbers, just for Coffee having a right to be pissed about the stereotype.

General Zod · Post by **General Zod** » 2008-05-01 04:50pm

havokeff wrote: I didn't miss any point. IP said no one chooses to be black. And no one chooses to be born in the south. So what, is a little kid supposed to just move away from the South? No, they are just as stuck being "southern" as a black person is being black, at least for 18 years.
I'm not arguing against numbers, just for Coffee having a right to be pissed about the stereotype.

You and Coffee can't seem to get over this hangup about the word "stereotype", so here's the actual definition.

Main Entry:
2stereotype
Function:
noun
Etymology:
French stéréotype, from stéré- stere- + type
Date:
1817

1: a plate cast from a printing surface2: something conforming to a fixed or general pattern; especially : a standardized mental picture that is held in common by members of a group and that represents an oversimplified opinion, prejudiced attitude, or uncritical judgment

So tell me, how is it oversimplified, prejudiced or uncritical to say that the South has a disproportionately high amount of bigoted, racist homophobes and that such behavior is completely unsurprising from the area?

Superman · Post by **Superman** » 2008-05-01 05:05pm

havokeff wrote:That's fucking stupid. No one chooses to be born in the south. And it says nothing else about them except where they live. Yet just because you are born there you automatically get hit with the racist south stereotype.

I don't think the issue is where anyone is born. People born into the south don't have to take on the negative belief system some people there might have, but black people can't choose to change their skin color. I don't assume that any individual I meet or know from the south is a racist or less than educated, but the facts show a large number of them make up that region.

If the facts back up the idea that the south tends to have a large number of people who hold more racist ideologies, then what's the problem with stating that?

Superman · Post by **Superman** » 2008-05-01 05:09pm

Hit "send" to soon.

Wanted to clarify that first part: I just meant that you can choose your belief system, but not your skin color. Damn inability to multi task...

Mr. Coffee · Post by **Mr. Coffee** » 2008-05-01 06:30pm

Illuminatus Primus wrote:No one chooses to be black and being black does not necessarily say anything else about them other than their skin color.

You can't choose a skin color, but you can make a choice on how to act. Some Southerners choose to act like ignorant bigots, some blacks choose to act as whatever stereotypes might apply. But according to you, Southerners have a choice on that, but blacks don't have a choice on it because of their skin tone.

CaptJodan · Post by **CaptJodan** » 2008-05-01 07:05pm

Kitsune wrote:
One of the people in the discussion was an electrician and I think his "Day Job" was in electronics. He was more or less clean cut and likely a Yuppie by this looks and generally the way he talked. He made the comment, "Would you give mouth to mouth resuscitation to a fag?"

Other guy was grizzled and he was very old for his rank, he was a Damage Controlman. In many ways from discussions you would consider him a hillbilly and he was a truck driver. He was the one who stated, "I have worked with many gays and never had any problems with them."

I expected the first guy to not be prejudice and the second guy to be extremely prejudiced. It just shows how people can surprise you.....

I think this is an instance of something Coffee might be trying to address. If all someone knows about you after first meeting you is that you're from the deep south, you're primed to expect a certain type of behavior or ideological outlook that may be accurate.

In the context of the story, I do think that going for an entire region of the country is a little extreme. There are many assholes out there who likely shares the views of the person who outed these two boys, but wouldn't necessarily act like this woman did. I'd say it's likely a fair assessment to label the general community she lives in as a whole, since apparently none of the teachers tried to stop this, but I think you either cast too wide a net, or not a wide enough net when claiming that this story is a deep south problem. If you want to cast a wide net, I'd say it's a national problem, and if you want to highlight the major offenders of that country, then I'd say both the south and the midwest (and apparently California? Seems odd). But I'd be more apt to say that these blowhards have a general local community issues, where the city/town as a whole has this view.

Post by **Edi** » 2008-05-02 01:10am

Mr. Coffee wrote:
Illuminatus Primus wrote:No one chooses to be black and being black does not necessarily say anything else about them other than their skin color.
You can't choose a skin color, but you can make a choice on how to act. Some Southerners choose to act like ignorant bigots, some blacks choose to act as whatever stereotypes might apply. But according to you, Southerners have a choice on that, but blacks don't have a choice on it because of their skin tone.

Mr Coffee, what the hell are you trying to say here? Nobody can choose the skin color they have. My pasty white ass isn't going to turn black or yellow no matter what. Nobody can choose where they are born either.

But everyone can choose what belief system they want to follow, what social policies they want to support and what ideology to reject. This is independent of what belief system they were raised under, because it is not immutable programming. So a black person can't help being black, as in having skin of that color. Nor can a southerner help being a southerner by birth.

But the stark fact of the matter is that far too many people in the American South follow a belief system where acting like a bigoted asshat is socially acceptable. Which is demonstrated by the 2001 40% opposition to legalizing interracial marriage in Alabama, the attitudes toward gay and bisexual people and all the other factors mentioned in the thread. The laundry list Illuminatus Primus mentioned about STD, teen pregnancy etc is directly correlated to a lot of the religiosity which is another part of the South and a large factor in driving the other shit (though not the only factor, as racism and religion are not necessarily correlated or have a cause-effect relationship).

Please, take a step back and look at what you're saying. Or even take a break for a couple of days until you calm down a bit.

Mr. Coffee · Post by **Mr. Coffee** » 2008-05-02 08:17am

Edi wrote:Mr Coffee, what the hell are you trying to say here? Nobody can choose the skin color they have. My pasty white ass isn't going to turn black or yellow no matter what. Nobody can choose where they are born either.

Ok, I'll spell it out for you...

I never said black people have a choice about their color. Unless you're name if Michael jackson, you're gonna be with whatever skin color you were born with till you die.

But people CAN choose to be assholes. The only thing that "southerner" or "black" or "asian" or "gay" has to do with it is giving a name to the stereotype, be it the "criminal black" stereotype or the "racist southerner" stereotype. All that does is give it a fucking name. The actions that some people choose to make is what created the stereotype.

Am I this being clear enough yet?

Edi wrote:Please, take a step back and look at what you're saying. Or even take a break for a couple of days until you calm down a bit.

Shit, I'm not even close to getting pissed over this, Edi. Annoyed? Sure, upset or anger, not at all. I'm calm as can be.

Zixinus · Post by **Zixinus** » 2008-05-02 09:13am

Well, the situation sucks hard. The only thing the two can do is move. A school that wants to tell students what to do when they are off classes is already fucked.

Seriously, if a teacher would have tried this kind of shit like this here, he/she would get fired with a tail of of smoke following. The scandal would be debated in the parliament. And they hate gay people here.

So, what's to stop the students from suing the administrators out of existence?

Because the case is flimsy at best? What are they gonna sue exactly for?

Post by **Alyrium Denryle** » 2008-05-02 02:08pm

Zixinus wrote:Well, the situation sucks hard. The only thing the two can do is move. A school that wants to tell students what to do when they are off classes is already fucked.

Seriously, if a teacher would have tried this kind of shit like this here, he/she would get fired with a tail of of smoke following. The scandal would be debated in the parliament. And they hate gay people here.

So, what's to stop the students from suing the administrators out of existence?
Because the case is flimsy at best? What are they gonna sue exactly for?

Violating their privacy, knowingly endangering them, discrimination... take your pick

TithonusSyndrome · Post by **TithonusSyndrome** » 2008-05-02 02:42pm

Oh for fuck sake, Coffee, this isn't the first time you've gone batshit shrieking mad and started niggling over some of the most picayune semantic details imaginable just because somebody DARED to make an offhand non-exhaustive generalized and justifiable statement about the South. You sound like one of those pouty religious moderates who used to come on here back when the board was much younger who stuck out their bottom lips and got in a snit when people would make reasonable generalizations about the nature of religion. This may not be southern apologism, but Jesus H. Skullfucking Christ, combined with your pigheaded inability to understand that generalizations do not apply to everyone and are simply useful outlines and your own double-standard of not reacting to any critical generalizations that don't apply to southerners, I can only assume that you've got enough luck to win the lotto if this rant hasn't gotten you HoSed yet.

Warsie · Post by **Warsie** » 2008-05-02 07:31pm

I have a question: Can you guys show me links on how the Midwest is bigoted, etc?

Kanastrous · Post by **Kanastrous** » 2008-05-02 07:34pm

Warsie wrote:I have a question: Can you guys show me links on how the Midwest is bigoted, etc?

Try reading the news.

Mr. Coffee · Post by **Mr. Coffee** » 2008-05-02 09:25pm

Good job, Timmy. I linked to that exact thread two pages ago. My problem is EVERY FUCKING TIME a news item is posted that took place in the south that is at all negitive out come the blithing cocktards wonking on about "ignorant southerns" this and "racist southerns" that. I know for a fucking fact that if a news item was posted about Africa or Asia and I started posting sterotypes about my ass would banned.

TithonusSyndrome · Post by **TithonusSyndrome** » 2008-05-02 09:42pm

Oh, you know this for a fact, eh? Well then DR6, fucker; give me a thread with an example of a banning or an unambiguous threat of banning being levied against a user who made comparatively disparaging remarks about Africa or Asia. If everyone's out to get you or everyone here is a giant steaming hypocrite who can't smell their own raunchy pungency, then you know what's required of you.

Superman · Post by **Superman** » 2008-05-02 09:48pm

TithonusSyndrome wrote:Oh, you know this for a fact, eh? Well then DR6, fucker; give me a thread with an example of a banning or an unambiguous threat of banning being levied against a user who made comparatively disparaging remarks about Africa or Asia. If everyone's out to get you or everyone here is a giant steaming hypocrite who can't smell their own raunchy pungency, then you know what's required of you.

I for one call Africa a giant hole of shit all the time because it is. Some parts of Asia are too. What's wrong with that?