NO SPOILARZ - THE GTA IV THREAD

[DPDarkPrimus]

Radio stations? Man, what don't I like? I find myself listening to them all depending what's one.

[Admiral Valdemar]

Sometimes they hide it with scripting (ie, you never get line of fire or whatever), but in some of the later missions I've been putting multiple sniper shots into people or near-missing them with the RPG-7 and gouts of blood have been flying everywhere... but they still get to their stupid car/boat/rocket cycle for the chase sequence. Fuckers.

Awesome as it would be to have a separate story-line for every single possible outcome, I think that's a tad much. And I was under the impression the game was reliant on the story, I mean, for single player anyway. Obviously the allure of GTA has always been you can either progress with the plot, or just fuck up as much of the city in any way you see fit before going out with a bang (literally, usually).

I do hate chases too, but, eh, it is as heavily vehicle oriented genre, so you can't begrudge them the use of some of those missions. Not like the bad guys will go "Drat, it's Niko and co. I could drive away in that sports car... but I think I'll rather stay here and get clobbered some more".

I wish I kept hold of Optimus Prime. It's so satisfying ramming cars out of the way with a long-snouted big rig, as opposed to driving round them like a loser.

[Pint0 Xtreme]

Quick question: Does constantly hanging out with one of the characters get you any new favors? Should I just hang out with them once in awhile to keep them happy or is there some kind of reward for making them like BFFs.

[weemadando]

Hang out with Jacob to get guns at discount prices out of a car boot.

Not sure about others. Roman obviously has the car service...

[Stark]

Awesome as it would be to have a separate story-line for every single possible outcome, I think that's a tad much. And I was under the impression the game was reliant on the story, I mean, for single player anyway. Obviously the allure of GTA has always been you can either progress with the plot, or just fuck up as much of the city in any way you see fit before going out with a bang (literally, usually).

I do hate chases too, but, eh, it is as heavily vehicle oriented genre, so you can't begrudge them the use of some of those missions. Not like the bad guys will go "Drat, it's Niko and co. I could drive away in that sports car... but I think I'll rather stay here and get clobbered some more".

I wish I kept hold of Optimus Prime. It's so satisfying ramming cars out of the way with a long-snouted big rig, as opposed to driving round them like a loser.

My point was that it's done POORLY and OBVIOUSLY. If you want a chase, don't give the player an easy opportunity to discover that the NPC is invincible flagged. This is basic game design. Many chases are started with 'cutscene stupidity' which while bad isn't as obviously forced as 'they can't die lolololol'

Whoops, I forgot the game is 100% lololollololololololol.

[chitoryu12]

Quick question: Does constantly hanging out with one of the characters get you any new favors? Should I just hang out with them once in awhile to keep them happy or is there some kind of reward for making them like BFFs.

Jacob gives you discount prices on guns, Roman gives you free taxi service, Brucie gives you free helicopter rides, Packie gives you car bombs you can detonate by phone, and Dwayne lets you call two of his pals to give you help in the middle of battle.

[Stark]

If you ignore someone long enough (it's AGES) they eventually withdraw their service and you have to get it back.

BTW, the last mission is lame design. At least I can go do all the side crap now, lol.

[DPDarkPrimus]

I feel bad about always nixing Dwayne when he calls me, but he never picks a good time to call.

I guess I can console myself with the fact that I never have felt that I needed backup on a mission.

Well, except for Three Leaf Clover, and I did have help.

[weemadando]

Grr. Following way too much time not playing the game (only just did the last Elizabeta mission) - I have to say that the aforementioned mission demonstrated just how horrid the gunplay mechanics are in close quarters. After MANY unsuccessful attempts to fight my way out of the building (stopped by me getting hung up on corners and then getting FUCKED by everyone) I just fucking legged it and got away scot free. Then on my way to meet Jacob got blindsided, knocked out of my car and fucking RUN OVER and killed.

So I have to start over. RIGHT FROM START. Finally I get it done. Thank god.

So two complaints.

1) Close quarters with many corners/doorways break the fucking cover and gunplay mechanics.

2) Again, if I finish a discrete section of a mission and have a second or third objective then let me restart the mission from THAT FUCKING POINT, not from RIGHT AT THE START TWO FUCKING ISLANDS AWAY.

[Stark]

Yeah, the 'smart lock on' doesn't work with the camera properly, so even if you can SEE a close-in guy it'll 'smartly' decide to lock on to a fleeing civilian at long range. The lock on is only good for quick long-range stuff, in my opinion - but there it's total cheese, you can snipe guys off rooftops with an SMG easily.

Don't forget the completely broken doors that autoclose and can't be reliably opened without walking through.

Ando, wait for the last mission. A driving section, a shooting section, a driving section, and a flying section. Fuck any of it up, and LOL START FROM BEGINNING LOL.

[CaptHawkeye]

Ando, wait for the last mission. A driving section, a shooting section, a driving section, and a flying section. Fuck any of it up, and LOL START FROM BEGINNING LOL.

Whoa? Another one of those ritual-esque last missions that are so typical of GTA games? Yeah, doesn't look like i'll be completing this GTA either. Especially if it's going to go Flashpoint: Red Hammer on me at the end.

Sometimes they hide it with scripting (ie, you never get line of fire or whatever), but in some of the later missions I've been putting multiple sniper shots into people or near-missing them with the RPG-7 and gouts of blood have been flying everywhere... but they still get to their stupid car/boat/rocket cycle for the chase sequence. Fuckers.

Don't forget how some of the chase sequences have scripted events. "LoL this truck comes around the corner just after dude X you need to chase runs by. Whoops you died."

No problem, just bad luck right? Nope. Turns out it will happen every time you repeat the mission. Lovely.

[Stark]

You heard me pissing and moaning about the final mission this morning. If you line up that jump, you win; otherwise, you lose. It took me 4 goes of a 5-10 minute mission. It's worse than all the others except the marathon shootup of VC, I think.

[Sarevok]

Don't forget how some of the chase sequences have scripted events. "LoL this truck comes around the corner just after dude X you need to chase runs by. Whoops you died."

No problem, just bad luck right? Nope. Turns out it will happen every time you repeat the mission. Lovely.

Sounds like they wanted to be "cinematic" in their car chases. But why not instead let the player do whatever he feels works best when in a vehicle chasing another vehicle in a fun sandbox world . Would not that be more fun than attempts at apeing hollywood that makes one wish to throw away the game disc ?

[Admiral Valdemar]

Sounds like they wanted to be "cinematic" in their car chases. But why not instead let the player do whatever he feels works best when in a vehicle chasing another vehicle in a fun sandbox world . Would not that be more fun than attempts at apeing hollywood that makes one wish to throw away the game disc ?

When we get game design and AI that allows such freedom, sure. Until then, you're going to have scripted events setting up missions so the average idiot user isn't stuck trying to do something that doesn't actually progress the plot at all. Too much freedom is simply a nightmare to program into something like that, and this is where you just go and play around with the rest of the world as you see fit. Missions-wise, you can't just do whatever you want, even with multiple routes through the story.

Leading up to a mission can be improved, like not giving the player a chance to take pot shots at a guy in-game who then survives by act of cutscene. But otherwise, you still have to stick to a script you can do what you like in to an extent. Totally open game plots would be super fun win time, just they're not happening yet. And I don't see the odd chase mission ruining the rest of an otherwise excellent experience as it never did in prior games.

EDIT: LOL, I love Ricky Gervais' stand-up with the Falklands comments.

[Vympel]

EDIT: LOL, I love Ricky Gervais' stand-up with the Falklands comments.

They're a direct lift from his Live 1 act, "Animals" (get it on DVD). Alternatively, Live 2, "Politics" (get that on DVD, too). It's not original, unfortunately. However, the interview with him on one of the radio stations is, and is also quite funny

(Oh, and go get Live 3, "Fame" on DVD as well. Just came out.)

Anyone who isn't watching shitloads of TV on GTA IV is missing out on comedy gold. The documentary on the history of Liberty City is easily the best. I've only seen Part 1, I don't know if there's a Part 2.

Anyway, GTA:VC and GTA:SA had great websites on where to find all the secret shit, including the weapons scattered about the place - one I rememeber not only had detailed maps, but also screenshots of those places on the maps, allowing you to see what you were looking for. So far I've only used the Liberty City google map on IGN to find some good shit - in particular, Body Armor in my area (pick up a fresh suit before and after every mission) and an M4A1 Carbine (that I pick up regularly to get my ammo up - still, it's tough to keep up the reserves compared to the sub-machine gun and pistol).

There's a Desert Eagle lying around that I wouldn't mind grabbing too.

Anyway, anyone know of a similar website being up yet?

Further, Michelle is weird. I recently got on the Manhattan-equivalent, Algonquin, and found some upscale clothing stores - I shopped at one of them (not the super-expensive Perseus, with all the uptight suits, but Modo, the sort of hip-expensive place) and bought some silk shirts and stonewashed jeans and shit. I showed up to the date with Michelle and she despised my clothes. Her reaction to all my el-cheapo-make-me-look-like-a-chubby-scruffy-immigrant Russian Shop shit has always been positive! WTF?

And she's such an undercover cop. Why else would she always go on about how she's a good listener, and asking me to speak up during ... you know? And how come I'm the only one who drinks when we go to a bar? All very suspicious.

[chitoryu12]

I feel bad about always nixing Dwayne when he calls me, but he never picks a good time to call.

I guess I can console myself with the fact that I never have felt that I needed backup on a mission.

Well, except for Three Leaf Clover, and I did have help.

It's not like Dwayne's guys are much help. They can't shoot for shit and the only thing they act as are basically meat shields to draw the other bastards' fire.

[Admiral Valdemar]

Vympel: Never knew it was from one of Gervais' DVDs. Must've missed that part, good all the same.

Likely there is a site for finding weapons too. Given the vastness of the Internet, I believe you'd have to spend a good time trawling it just to find such a site. May be easier to just go and earn money.

It's not like Dwayne's guys are much help. They can't shoot for shit and the only thing they act as are basically meat shields to draw the other bastards' fire.

In that case, they may prove useful if only for diversionary tactics. Being able to actually hit things helps, though

[Ohma]

My point was that it's done POORLY and OBVIOUSLY. If you want a chase, don't give the player an easy opportunity to discover that the NPC is invincible flagged. This is basic game design. Many chases are started with 'cutscene stupidity' which while bad isn't as obviously forced as 'they can't die lolololol'

Whoops, I forgot the game is 100% lololollololololololol.

And make their car at least look like it's obeying the same rules as yours, and if you can't do that without scripting out all the traffic along the chase route, then do that! I'd feel much less cheated if I kept losing a guy who looked like they were just a really good driver, than a guy driving a magic hatchback which can pull perfect three point turns while doing 80mph and ram a fucking bus off the road.

[RogueIce]

Anyway, GTA:VC and GTA:SA had great websites on where to find all the secret shit, including the weapons scattered about the place - one I rememeber not only had detailed maps, but also screenshots of those places on the maps, allowing you to see what you were looking for. So far I've only used the Liberty City google map on IGN to find some good shit - in particular, Body Armor in my area (pick up a fresh suit before and after every mission) and an M4A1 Carbine (that I pick up regularly to get my ammo up - still, it's tough to keep up the reserves compared to the sub-machine gun and pistol).

There's a Desert Eagle lying around that I wouldn't mind grabbing too.

Anyway, anyone know of a similar website being up yet?

Well, in game if you go to www.whattheydonotwantyoutoknow.com (on the real Internet it just put me at the Rockstar GTA4 site, so at least I know I didn't fuck the URL up) you'll get a small map of all sorts of stuff in the game (weapons, armor, health, the 'hidden packages' and so on). Not terribly detailed, but if you don't mind marking up your game map you can get a rough idea of where everything is.

As to fan created stuff, I imagine it's just a matter of time. It'll probably be a while before all the hard core gamers have had the chance to totally explore Liberty City.

[weemadando]

Has anyone else been looking into the Rockstar Social Club stuff? You know, just incase the content in the game wasn't enough?

It's actually quite awesome. Most interesting is a lot of the "tracking" stuff showing just how much has been done by players. Most interesting is the crime stats. Apparently in the past 24 hours there were more than 1.6 million police callouts and more than 20,000 NOOSE callouts.

And I've gotten my downloadable content from there too - I get a Liberty City Marathon t-shirt for completing that achievement on the Social Club.

Yeah, did I mention there was a LOT of content?

[Stark]

Vympel, once you finish the story you get an email to a conspiracy website (which I guess might work beforehand, actually) that has maps of NY for all the different things; friend locations, random chat locations, stupid bird locations, guns, jumps, etc. It's ingame so it's nearly useless, but you don't need any of that shit anyway. It's hilarious you have ammo management problems so early in the game; the SMG is basically a sniper rifle, and I only found the AR useful for penetration (it quickly loses accuracy and has a low rate of fire = poo). Of course, everyone gets 1500 pistol rounds early and never runs out because ever bastard has one.

I'm never getting 100% because shooting 200 birds can fuck off and die.

[weemadando]

From a freeplay session:

Me: "Where the fuck are we?"
Stark: "I think we're still in Jersey..."
Me: "Jersey? Fuck, let's get out of this shithole."
Stark: "Get in the car."


It's good to know that prejudices still exist in game.

And freeplay was fun, I would like one or two more people in order to try and do a full on "Heat" dealio trying to rabbit from a 4 star rating with some back-up who don't suck.

[Vympel]

It's hilarious you have ammo management problems so early in the game; the SMG is basically a sniper rifle, and I only found the AR useful for penetration (it quickly loses accuracy and has a low rate of fire = poo). Of course, everyone gets 1500 pistol rounds early and never runs out because ever bastard has one.

I didn't say ammo management problems - just AR ammo management problems. I like it, it's cool. So nyeh.

[Starglider]

I'm about two-thirds of the way through this game ATM. It's pretty fun, but not the most awesome game ever.

As I expected, it's GTA3 with much higher production values. I like the main character and 'all criminals are pathetic scum' nature of the plot. I was disappointed to see some of the classic stuff missing (e.g. firetruck and ambulance missions, used to be a nice little diversion), but there's some VC-era extra gameplay (e.g. assassination missions) to compensate. One thing that seems conspicously absent (so far) is the rail-shooter missions, with VC and particularly SA had quite a few of. I'm not a huge fan of rail shooters, but I kinda miss them.

The controls are 'soft' but I can live with it on foot (took a while to master the cover system, but it seems natural now). I hate the motorbike handling. I hated it in previous games, but it's even worse now. The helicopter physics are fun, but the controls are really awkward on the 360 controller. Maybe it's just me, but I don't normally have fingers on the triggers and the shoulder buttons at the same time, and you have to take that position to fly the helicopters effectively. It's also annoying how few safe houses you have for most of the game. VC and particularly SA spoilt me with being able to save virtually anywhere (although the instant-journey taxis are welcome and help to negate this).

My biggest single problem with the game is actually visual; the halos and indicators are way too subtle. It's very difficult to see pickups and pigeons in the environment, and somewhat harder to work out who's a target/enemy and who isn't. In previous GTA games I made heavy use of weapon and armor pickups, but I still haven't found any useful ones in GTA4. I expect R* were going for realism here, but playability is more important and I'd appreciate a 'indicators subtle/obvious' toggle in the options.

A few of the missions seem monstrously frustrating until you work out the strategy for them, but that's fine, GTA gameplay has always been like that. The production team has done a good job of making the city a really depressing place to be. Good for atmosphere, but let's face it, VC was more fun to play than GTA3 partly because the glitzy 80s locations were so cool. The sense of progress of acquiring all those properties is also missing from GTA4, it's really just money and eliminating enemies.

I'd say that GTA:San Adreas is still a better game, for the sheer variety of locations and fun stuff you can do. I'd put GTA4 on a par with Vice City. It's the first game on a new engine and content base of course, hopefully the next one will build on that to be really impressive. The entire UK done as a GTA:SA type multi-city environment would be pretty cool.

[Stark]

People actually liked SA? Worst story, worst protaganist, huge stretches of nowhere to hide the streaming, a third city almost entirely devoid of purpose.. it only worked as well as it did due to the ease of mocking the early 90s rap scene, and GTA4 isn't so much a pisstake anymore. Sadly, GTA4:VC would be awesome, but it'd suck unless it was the 80s and I'm not sure Rockstar want to repeat themselves that closely.

I don't know anyone who has a problem with the halos, except money doesn't always seem to have one (although a pile of cash always seems to have one with a halo, the others just look like rectangles on the ground). I can spot pigeons at full speed in a helicopter, even with the horrible frame rate issues in first-person, so it's hardly difficult.

Enemies being less obvious is fine with me, but the 'smart' targeting is anything but and makes it unneccesarily hard to lock on to bad guys in a crowd. Giant floating chevrons make it obvious to tell who's evil, but the 'smart' targeting just fucks it up.

The game's got problems out the ass, but 'not being like SA' isn't one of them. Ditching fire and rescue missions just seems like a logical progresion of the loss of 'video gamey-ness' that's evident through all the games since 3; after all, vigilante missions are still there but you don't get paid for them, taxi missions exist due to the story, etc.