NO SPOILARZ - THE GTA IV THREAD

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Starglider
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Post by Starglider »

Stark wrote:I'm actually glad they dropped so much functionality from SA.
Do you mean 'I'm glad they didn't try to do more stuff because it inevitably would've been done less well' or do you actually hate GTA players and hope that we have as little fun as possible? No wait don't answer that :)
Admiral Valdemar wrote:When you go to the lengths they went to to make a full Internet and TV station network to go with the radio stations, I think that kind of thing was just to be expected. They have the raw processor power and engine to do it, so why not?
This may not be entirely obvious to people who haven't worked in games, but game mechanics and game content (particularly stuff as superfluous and arty as the Internet sites) are fairly disjoint. The later can be parallelised quite effectively (particularly the Internet stuff) - the amount of it you can make depends pretty much solely on how much money you have to throw at it. Game mechanics aren't like that; trying to program lots of features in parallel is hard, and even with very good architects and project management there's a sharp limit to how many people you can have working on it (things like arcade mini-games excepted). Thus for a given release date, there's a fairly strict limit on how much stuff you can get into the game.

That said, I'd rather have a tank than pool and bowling.
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Post by Vympel »

Reading the reviews, it annoys me that they've given the game perfect scores - the comment in the IGN review that the shooting mechanics are "rock solid" and "tuned to perfection" (the AU review, anyway) are so completely wrong as to be laughable.

Sure, the shooting mechanics are good for fart-assing around with a gamepad, and gunfights are a lot more fun. But it's still flawed. The retarded idea of hitting someone with your gun at close range (resulting in the spastic, confused twitching referred to above and prompt death whilst the camera etc shits itself) while allowing them to shoot you at will is infuriating in close-in missions.

At least IGN AU didn't give the game a perfect 10 (they gave it 9.8).
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Post by Admiral Valdemar »

Oh yeah, the extra stuff isn't part of the actual game, but it's nice that the polish is there. It makes the world more real than simply making it GTA III but with a shinier engine. If you go out there and make the little touches like the radio stations originally stand out, then you can be expected to go out of your way to add other cool stuff that is totally outside the original game content, which was also improved anyway. Watching the TV channels for the comedy gold on them is worth the price alone. Would be awesome if this could all be updated via the net.
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Post by Stark »

Starglider wrote:Do you mean 'I'm glad they didn't try to do more stuff because it inevitably would've been done less well' or do you actually hate GTA players and hope that we have as little fun as possible? No wait don't answer that :)
No, I mean much of the stuff added between VC and SA was either outright crap or poorly done. I'm not sad to see the back of 'getting fat' or 'useless airplanes' and whatnot. I'm particularly fine to see the stuff they dropped due to the story; no more stupid tanks, no more stupid jet planes, no more taking over the world and getting paid from the Video Game Society for running people over. Actual useful stuff like dragons teeth are a bad loss, but they'll be back. SA was an adventure in adding shit to see what worked, and I'm glad Rockstar knows most of it DIDN'T work.

Go to the gym twice to max out your strength and never, ever go again! Hooray! :)

It makes me sad that sycophantic, useless reviewers gave GTA4 100% ratings, when GTA3 was given low 90s ratings all round and rightly critcised for bugs, graphic glitches, technical problems, spotty controls, etc. GTA4 obviously has none of those... OH WAIT.
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Post by Vympel »

Kotaku reviews the GTA IV reviews

Hilarious :)

This is not to say I don't think GTA IV is fucking awesome and will be one of the best games of the year. But it's not a 10/10 game. Whether that means perfect or not.
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Post by Starglider »

Stark wrote:or 'useless airplanes' and whatnot.
AIRPLANES WERE AWESOME. GTA SHOULD SUBSUME ACE COMBAT. DIE STARK DIE.

Actually I loved the aircraft missions and checkpoint challenges. Plus Brown Thunder was much more awesome in SA than VC.
no more stupid tanks, no more stupid jet planes
You can't seriously claim that tooling around in the Rhino and the Hydra wasn't a lot of fun.
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Post by Stark »

Rockstar made a different game. You need to accept that. You're not a superhero criminal conquering a city anymore, the army isn't fighting you. You're just a guy.

If dropping useless crap from SA gives us a great story like in GTA4, it's a fair trade. People who whinge about no bicycles or no haircuts and shit are just retards.

Frankly, go play Ace Combat. It sucks, it's boring, and it's not GTA4. They removed more of the video gamey-ness. Deal with it.

As one of only six people in the whole country who got a tank in GTA3 properly instead of cheating, I am not sad to see tanks go.
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Post by Admiral Valdemar »

I agree with Stark. Tanks and planes were fun in the more cartoony GTA: SA, which GTA IV isn't. It went more the Mafia, The Getaway or The Godfather game without the crappiness of the two. More realism, without sucking the life out.

Personally, the badass motherfuckers that make-up SWAT now make me feel more challenged than having a single glorified APC charging around trying to squash me.
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Post by CaptHawkeye »

Stark wrote:
It makes me sad that sycophantic, useless reviewers gave GTA4 100% ratings, when GTA3 was given low 90s ratings all round and rightly critcised for bugs, graphic glitches, technical problems, spotty controls, etc. GTA4 obviously has none of those... OH WAIT.
I guess this is what happens when hype goes on steroids? :) ICE COLD BABY.

Anybody else remember how much love San Andreas got prior to release? Even though everything Stark and others have said so far about it, (that it SUCKED) is true? This is what happens when legions of fanboys latch onto your series man.
Vympel wrote:Hilarious Smile

This is not to say I don't think GTA IV is fucking awesome and will be one of the best games of the year. But it's not a 10/10 game. Whether that means perfect or not.
The media was treating it like God's own personal video game years before it was released. The gaming community nerdgasms over GTA so much because it's a publically acclaimed game series that lots of people not them love too. I know GIRLS, not one or two or three but MANY not even CASUAL players who love GTA. So what does that mean to gamers of course? "ARE WE POPULAR YET?" :)
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Post by weemadando »

I'm SICK of dying due to shitty gunplay mechanics.

Did the Dwayne stripclub mission and get absolutely MINCED because apparently everyone in a stripclub packs an MP5... And auto-aiming locks on to the strippers, not to, you know, the guy with the MP5 RIGHT WHERE MY CURSOR IS FUCKING HOVERING!

FUCK.

That said, I'm getting better with it, you just have to remember- NEVER FIGHT THE COPS. You'll lose. If you have the armour, just leg it, you have a WAY better chance.
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Post by Stark »

See, Ando, that's 'smart targeting'. It locks onto 'smarty' chosen things. Not people with guns, though. Nah. :)

If you kill the booth guy with a knife, people don't notice. Then just run back out the front door and round the side to the rear where the guys run out, and you can usually shoot them before they get to their cars or before they get very far. Going through the club is insane, I only tried it once. :)
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Post by weemadando »

After learning that the club is filled with armed people, ony my next try I legged it through the club got in the car chase and lost them (somehow). Then I repeated it again, went sprinting through, killed the guy in the booth, went out the back door, around to the carpark and put a grenade under the car that the other managers were trying to escape in.

Win! Then a bouncer killed me. Boo.
Last edited by weemadando on 2008-05-04 10:27pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by The Vortex Empire »

Stark wrote:See, Ando, that's 'smart targeting'. It locks onto 'smarty' chosen things. Not people with guns, though. Nah. :)

If you kill the booth guy with a knife, people don't notice. Then just run back out the front door and round the side to the rear where the guys run out, and you can usually shoot them before they get to their cars or before they get very far. Going through the club is insane, I only tried it once. :)
I just shot the guy in the booth, killed a few guards, ran out the front door, stole a pickup, and I caught them in a few seconds. It wasn't a particularly hard mission. The second Elizabeta mission is pissing me off, though because both times I tried it, the smart targeting locked onto the guy 20 feet away with a pistol, rather than right next to me with a shotgun. Rockstar needs to put in an update for checkpoints.
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Post by weemadando »

The Vortex Empire wrote:\Rockstar needs to put in an update for checkpoints.
THANK YOU!
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Post by GuppyShark »

Picked it up yesterday, played it for a few hours.

Maybe it's because I've always played these games on PC, but I hate the controls. Both shooting and driving. Gimme my mouselook :(

The ingame Internet or TV seem like a time waster. You can't watch the TV while driving around, unlike the radio which can be enjoyed while playing.

I've so far been underwhelmed by the AI and physics engines. Maybe it's because Niko looks so uncoordinated when he tries to fist fight.

I love the incar GPS, that's very neat. I like not having to pause and view the map as often, though most of the time you could just drive in the general direction of your destination and get there in a reasonable timeframe (hurrah for grid layout).

Are you able to just flag down a cab on the street and get a ride? Before Roman gave me the option to call them, I went to a bar and got plastered - I thought I'd better call a cab but couldn't find a phone number for one, and when I tried to hail one on the road I ended up jacking the guy. :P
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Post by weemadando »

You hold Y to hop in the back of any cab.
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Post by chitoryu12 »

Vympel wrote:Reading the reviews, it annoys me that they've given the game perfect scores - the comment in the IGN review that the shooting mechanics are "rock solid" and "tuned to perfection" (the AU review, anyway) are so completely wrong as to be laughable.

Sure, the shooting mechanics are good for fart-assing around with a gamepad, and gunfights are a lot more fun. But it's still flawed. The retarded idea of hitting someone with your gun at close range (resulting in the spastic, confused twitching referred to above and prompt death whilst the camera etc shits itself) while allowing them to shoot you at will is infuriating in close-in missions.

At least IGN AU didn't give the game a perfect 10 (they gave it 9.8).
You think that's bad? Try looking around from cover in more than a forty degree arc around you. It must take three fucking seconds of pressing the control stick to it's limit just to get Niko to look to the side and target a baddie who's ever so slightly to the left of where you're untouchable behind the wall.
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Post by Starglider »

Stark wrote:Rockstar made a different game. You need to accept that. You're not a superhero criminal conquering a city anymore, the army isn't fighting you. You're just a guy.
For the most part I do. I already mentioned that I'm fine with no aircraft; I was actually pleasantly surprised that choppers are still flyable. However I do hope that all that stuff and more is back in the next game. The only ommision I'm genuinely disappointed about is the tank, because I was expecting it and it's been present (and fun) in every single GTA game to date. But it still isn't a big deal as long as it comes back in a future game.
As one of only six people in the whole country who got a tank in GTA3 properly instead of cheating, I am not sad to see tanks go.
What you say? It wasn't that hard. No better way to finish up a car-park rocket launcher cop-killing rampage than a cruise around town in a jacked tank.
I agree with Stark. Tanks and planes were fun in the more cartoony GTA: SA, which GTA IV isn't. It went more the Mafia, The Getaway or The Godfather game without the crappiness of the two.
I thought The Getaway was passable. The thing is, just about all of those GTA-style games or outright GTA clones attempt to be more 'gritty and realistic'. I can't think of any similar games more on the 'cartoon violence' side from GTA. As such it'd be sad if GTA moves permenantly towards 'realistic' and there are no such fun-focused over-the-top sandbox games around.

I do admit that the jetpack was stupid though.
weemadando wrote:Did the Dwayne stripclub mission and get absolutely MINCED because apparently everyone in a stripclub packs an MP5... And auto-aiming locks on to the strippers, not to, you know, the guy with the MP5 RIGHT WHERE MY CURSOR IS FUCKING HOVERING!
I found manual aiming is better for targets in the open at medium range. Lock on is best for quickly zeroing on distant targets, without a second or two of nudging the stick gently trying to line up.
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Post by SylasGaunt »

I tend to use auto-target in much the same way, though I use it at all ranges when there's nothing but hostiles about. In crowds like the club I manual target.

What I did in that case was knife the guy in the office, locate the other two, then stand at the entrance to that hallway, whip out my AR, plug the guy talking to the stripper then turned to face the hall, blew away the bodyguard of the third manager and shot him in the back as he ran out of the room where he was getting his lapdance.
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Post by Vympel »

Did the hospital mission. It's ridiculous that you're forced to just bolt past those pseudo-SWAT as opposed to fighting and killing them inside because of those damn broken CQ shooting mechanics, but oh well - the mission after that with the bodies in the trunk was a laugh-riot. Anyone else have the trunk open on them?

In other Long List of Things in GTA IV That Are Fun, go to your apartment after you kill a shitload of cops (3-star, 4-star etc). Enjoy the siege as they try to storm the place. You'll get killed obviously, but you'll take a lot with you.
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Post by Ritterin Sophia »

Starglider wrote:I can't think of any similar games more on the 'cartoon violence' side from GTA.
Did nobody else play Saint's Row?
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Post by Stile »

Try starting a fight with a bystander by pushing them with a cop nearby. The remarks the cop makes as he arrests him is hilarious.
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Post by SylasGaunt »

Vympel wrote:Did the hospital mission. It's ridiculous that you're forced to just bolt past those pseudo-SWAT as opposed to fighting and killing them inside because of those damn broken CQ shooting mechanics, but oh well - the mission after that with the bodies in the trunk was a laugh-riot. Anyone else have the trunk open on them?
Funnily enough I did kill them inside. My major problem with that mission was finding the damn door to get out of the building. Once I found that it was a quick dash to the right, slip through a gap in the fence and leap down into a waiting speed boat before Miami vicing my way out of there.
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Post by chitoryu12 »

Drunks are so easy to injure. Packie and I were stumbling to our helicopter parked outside Steinway Beer Garden. I found that a taxi had tried to drive around it and had gotten lodged under the cockpit (It was an Annihilator, the big Blackhawk-style chopper). When Packie was trying to walk around it to get to the passenger seat, the taxi lurched forward and the nose of the chopper hit him in the face and knocked him out.

I had this massive Heat-style battle for the last minute of Team Deathmatch. They turned off the pedestrians and set traffic to parked cars only, and it was our team of five running down the street at two teams of two with MP-10s. We weren't even taking cover, just slowly making our way up firing the whole time. The four other guys just hid behind buildings and waited for the end. Finally two of them did an eerily coordinated run and drove down the street side-by-side in Comets.
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Post by Admiral Valdemar »

Vympel wrote:Did the hospital mission. It's ridiculous that you're forced to just bolt past those pseudo-SWAT as opposed to fighting and killing them inside because of those damn broken CQ shooting mechanics, but oh well - the mission after that with the bodies in the trunk was a laugh-riot. Anyone else have the trunk open on them?

In other Long List of Things in GTA IV That Are Fun, go to your apartment after you kill a shitload of cops (3-star, 4-star etc). Enjoy the siege as they try to storm the place. You'll get killed obviously, but you'll take a lot with you.
I always do it in a Burger Shot. One time, I forgot there were TWO doors to enter it, and while I raped the guys trying to storm the front, a single fat copy (had to be a fat one), manages to sneak behind me and blow my brains out.

Was not happy.

Also, on auto-aim, is it really that hard to use it and, gasp, shift to another target instantly? It's meant to target people in-front of you, not necessarily threats, which'd be too easy. I have no problem in switching from free-aim over to auto and quickly popping a couple shot burst into several targets in succession. Maybe it's just easier on the PS3.

What pisses me off is doors closing thanks to gunshots hitting them, thus blocking my view and fucking up any storming of a room.
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