Morality of eating your enemy?

[Gil Hamilton]

1. The increased likelihood of disease. Pathogens have a much easier time infecting organisms that belong to the same species, due to the fact that there are much less barriers to overcome. Transmission between different species means having the proper adpatations, and that is less likely to happen. Then there's stuff like mad cow disease.

Because it's incredibly sanitary to eat aliens who carry who know's what disease and parasites which you corpsified on a battlefield? Or are you rounding them up from their homes?

2. Eating other humans, among civilized nations, is a long standing taboo. Imagine the public whiplash that would occur if soldiers cooked guerrillas for breakfast.

Yet, you think that it is fine to eating people from civilized nations which don't happen to be human is A-OK. Remember, they are intelligent here. Have you considered WHY there would be a huge public backlash if our soldiers were frying up guerrillas?

3. Eating your own kind is not a good strategy for the surivival of your species, ESPECIALLY when there is plenty of other food available. Cannibalism tends to be a last resort; i. e. when there is no other food available and you will soon starve to death.
I wonder what it does for the survival of the human race when you convince aliens that human beings are psychotic cannibal space monsters?

After all, killing one of your own for food removes a (potentially) productive member of society, plus there is the emotional duress involved. You don't want to eat your best friend.

I wonder what effect it has on the survival of the human race is you convince aliens that we are a race of psychotic space cannibals who have no decency or respect for the dead to the point that we are cooking and eating them?

4. Cultures that engage in cannibalism typically do it as part of a ritual (for example, demonstrating superiority over the other tribe). They are still around, so they don't do this often enough that population or disease becomes an issue.

Most tribes that engage in cannibalism don't exist anymore. They were either rendered extinct or had their culture conquered and weren't allowed to be cannibals anymore. They aren't something we want to emulate.

As for ET eating us, yeah. We don't like to be eaten. But come on, if we are at war with aliens, and we eat them, then obviously we aren't engaging in cannibalism. Besides, suppose that the aliens we're eating turn out not to be that intelligent after all. Or suppose that in the enemy's culture, eating your foe is a sign of superiority and dominance - thus, eating them might lead to the enemy respecting or even liking us (these are aliens, after all. They may not think like we do!).

That's an awful lot of assumptions you are making to justify yourself. Leaving aside whether or not it is cannibalism to eat intelligent beings who aren't human:

1) I very much doubt aliens will be engaging in interstellar war with the human race will turn out to be "non-intelligent".

2) Or suppose they are horribly offended by the brutal desecration of their dead and decide that the only response is our extinction? What is your point?

[Ender]

A peace treaty is still a factor unless both sides are completely committed to extermination. It may be easier to convince the enemy you're not worth the trouble of trying to wipe out than to completely destroy them.

So, I should try to convince them I will sue for peace even though I'm doing my best to wipe them out to the last cell? I'm pretty sure that they aren't going to care if I am eating them or not when we slaughter everything that moves.

[Gullible Jones]

Say what you will about moral absolutes, but eating the corpse of a civilized being without its prior permission does not strike me as a particularly ethical or respectful thing to do.

(Not that it couldn't happen. I've often gotten the feeling that evil aliens' appetites for exotic flesh are a reflection of our own omnivorous propensities to eat just about anything. Ostrich anyone? Or how about some whale? Or a slice of baboon?)

[Sidewinder]

Depends on the enemy and the situation. A non-sentient enemy like the warrior bugs in 'Starship Troopers' probably won't raise any moral dilemmas if they appear in a barbecue pit, but a sentient one like the Klingons WILL, unless the eaters are morally bankrupt. (I have portrayed cannibalism in some of my stories, but the soldiers who eat enemy soldiers are seen as monsters by their "allies.")

But in a survival situation, e.g., when the soldiers are out of rations and they know they won't be resupplied in time to avoid starvation, the moral dilemma goes out the window. Bear in mind, however, that there are health risks to doing so, e.g., the risk of getting Creutzfeldt-Jacob or other diseases, or the possibility that the alien flesh will be toxic to the eaters' species.

[Sidewinder]

But I suppose when ETs do it to humans, suddenly it becomes wrong.

To humans, it IS wrong, because the act of eating humans makes the eaters a direct threat to survival. No moral judgments, just simple Darwinian theories in action.

[Mayabird]

I had often wondered if the definition of cannibalism would be extended to the consumption of any dead sentient being, whether it be other humans, aliens, intelligent whales, whathaveyou. Unless I was starving, I personally would find it uncomfortable to eat chimpanzee meat, even beyond the part where they're endangered, because it's just too close to cannibalism for me.

[Junghalli]

So, I should try to convince them I will sue for peace even though I'm doing my best to wipe them out to the last cell?

I was more thinking of if you were defending yourself, and the war aim is your civilization's survival. It's entirely possible that'll be more easily achieved by convincing the other side they can't destroy you or that the cost will be too high than wiping them out to the last population center.

[Eulogy]

1. The increased likelihood of disease. Pathogens have a much easier time infecting organisms that belong to the same species, due to the fact that there are much less barriers to overcome. Transmission between different species means having the proper adpatations, and that is less likely to happen. Then there's stuff like mad cow disease.

Because it's incredibly sanitary to eat aliens who carry who know's what disease and parasites which you corpsified on a battlefield? Or are you rounding them up from their homes?

Wow, my first red herring!

First, lets say it is another sentient being, is it ok to eat there fallen? (I am not talking about executing them for food, I am talking about fallen soldiers.)

We are not talking about rounding up civilians and frying them in a gigantic Auschwitz-style oven. We are talking about eating the already dead soldiers. Besides, the OP implies that the aliens are safe to eat, at least in the short term. Also, there's the possiblity that the aliens are disease-free, or that our weapons purify or preserve them.

2. Eating other humans, among civilized nations, is a long standing taboo. Imagine the public whiplash that would occur if soldiers cooked guerrillas for breakfast.

Yet, you think that it is fine to eating people from civilized nations which don't happen to be human is A-OK. Remember, they are intelligent here. Have you considered WHY there would be a huge public backlash if our soldiers were frying up guerrillas?

Because then the soldiers would be eating other human beings, And Bah God Jeremiah That Just Ain't Right. They would indeed be seen as monsters by the other humans.

Aliens, however, are up in the air. For all you know, the public could hate them damn dirty xenos and think that the aliens getting eaten is a just punishment, befitting of the lowly animals that they are.

3. Eating your own kind is not a good strategy for the surivival of your species, ESPECIALLY when there is plenty of other food available. Cannibalism tends to be a last resort; i. e. when there is no other food available and you will soon starve to death.

After all, killing one of your own for food removes a (potentially) productive member of society, plus there is the emotional duress involved. You don't want to eat your best friend.

I wonder what effect it has on the survival of the human race is you convince aliens that we are a race of psychotic space cannibals who have no decency or respect for the dead to the point that we are cooking and eating them?

The thing about open general OPs is that since there aren't any specifics, we when answering have to give the best general answers we can. So far, the consensus seems to be "It depends on the situation" followed by "Yes".

"It depends on the situation" is quite frankly one of the most fitting answers given. So when you say that the aliens of which we have no specific information on will react a certain way, you are not considering the other possibilites.

4. Cultures that engage in cannibalism typically do it as part of a ritual (for example, demonstrating superiority over the other tribe). They are still around, so they don't do this often enough that population or disease becomes an issue.

Most tribes that engage in cannibalism don't exist anymore. They were either rendered extinct or had their culture conquered and weren't allowed to be cannibals anymore. They aren't something we want to emulate.

Do you even know what cannibalism is?

Main Entry: can·ni·bal·ism
Pronunciation: \ˈka-nə-bə-ˌli-zəm\
Function: noun
Date: 1796

1 : the usually ritualistic eating of human flesh by a human being
2 : the eating of the flesh of an animal by another animal of the same kind
3 : an act of cannibalizing something
— can·ni·bal·is·tic \ˌka-nə-bə-ˈlis-tik\ adjective

Gee, looks like there's nothing in there about humans eating aliens!

As for ET eating us, yeah. We don't like to be eaten. But come on, if we are at war with aliens, and we eat them, then obviously we aren't engaging in cannibalism. Besides, suppose that the aliens we're eating turn out not to be that intelligent after all. Or suppose that in the enemy's culture, eating your foe is a sign of superiority and dominance - thus, eating them might lead to the enemy respecting or even liking us (these are aliens, after all. They may not think like we do!).

That's an awful lot of assumptions you are making to justify yourself. Leaving aside whether or not it is cannibalism to eat intelligent beings who aren't human:

1) I very much doubt aliens will be engaging in interstellar war with the human race will turn out to be "non-intelligent".

2) Or suppose they are horribly offended by the brutal desecration of their dead and decide that the only response is our extinction? What is your point?

I wouldn't be so sure. What if our enemy is intelligent, but physically very frail and has to rely on genetically engineered monsters or specially bred and trained war animals to do their fighting for them? We'd be killing those in battle for the most part.

Or suppose they have a strange religion where only those who get eaten by something can enter The True Paradise, thus in their eyes when we eat them we're doing their soldiers a favour.

Or suppose we are actullay fighting a hive mind who thinks nothing of losing a few thousand bodies.

Or suppose the leader of the alien civilization is an obsessive bean counter, and started the war with humanity to see how efficent we are at battle and managing resources.

We don't know more about the enemy the OP has humans fighting and eating. We can only answer the best we can.

[DPDarkPrimus]

I'm sure that when you're petitioning to join the Intergalactic Society of Military Superpowers, the fact that your population ate the corpses of another sentient species, not out of necessity, but because they tasted good, is going to score major points with the committee.

[Zixinus]

It's still safer to assume they won't like us eating their dead undes almost until we know more of them. No matter how you look at it, aside the health risks posed, your chances are that they will still be somehow disgusted are higher then they falling in love with us.

The idea that we are commiting cannibalism does make sense in a certain way. While the dictionary specifies human, it doesn't mean that we aren't commiting a similiar crime, either in our own or their eyes. They know we are sentient, they know that we obviously figured that they are sentient and that we have our own ideas and philosophies of the world.

But when they see their comrade's corpse rosted over the fire, I doubt they are going to think "well, we aren't the same species so I guess its accepted" but more like "holy fucking shit! They're eating Qntakria!". And when that soldier will tell that story of what he saw us doing, word will spread and that will not count in our favour the least, if by nothing else but by giving them a moral superiority.

What if our enemy is intelligent, but physically very frail and has to rely on genetically engineered monsters or specially bred and trained war animals to do their fighting for them? We'd be killing those in battle for the most part.

Then we would know whether they are genetically engineered and it will still effect their outlook on us. We can also assume that they don't know that we know that they are sending the equilent of war robots at us and think we are doing something we would normally do.

Or suppose they have a strange religion where only those who get eaten by something can enter The True Paradise, thus in their eyes when we eat them we're doing their soldiers a favour.

How do we know that they all follow the same religion?

Or suppose we are actullay fighting a hive mind who thinks nothing of losing a few thousand bodies.

A few thousand does sound like a pretty high number, even for a possible hive mind.

A hive mind would still view us as an additional treat if it knows

Or suppose the leader of the alien civilization is an obsessive bean counter, and started the war with humanity to see how efficent we are at battle and managing resources.

That's a stupid, downright idiotic way to determine that.

We are not talking about rounding up civilians and frying them in a gigantic Auschwitz-style oven. We are talking about eating the already dead soldiers. Besides, the OP implies that the aliens are safe to eat, at least in the short term. Also, there's the possiblity that the aliens are disease-free, or that our weapons purify or preserve them.

Okay, leave the "alien" bit out of that an you will see why that reasoning is wrong.

[Gil Hamilton]

Wow, my first red herring!

It isn't a red herring, eating anything that is dead unless it is very carefully prepared is dangerous and that doesn't even touch bodies produced on the battlefield. Even from slaughterhouses, meat has to be handled properly. Unless, of course, you happen to like trichnosis from pork, for example.

We are not talking about rounding up civilians and frying them in a gigantic Auschwitz-style oven. We are talking about eating the already dead soldiers. Besides, the OP implies that the aliens are safe to eat, at least in the short term. Also, there's the possiblity that the aliens are disease-free, or that our weapons purify or preserve them.

You listed disease and sanitation as one of the reasons people don't eat other people, but it completely the same argument why you should eat any corpse, alien or not.

And what the hell is this about our weapons purifying and preserving them? Bullets and bombs don't do that, you know! Unless, of course, you are suggesting we carry into battle some sort of Ron Popeil Fragmaster 9000, which slices, sterilizes, and lightly sautees alien soldiers while you wait!

Because then the soldiers would be eating other human beings, And Bah God Jeremiah That Just Ain't Right. They would indeed be seen as monsters by the other humans.

Aliens, however, are up in the air. For all you know, the public could hate them damn dirty xenos and think that the aliens getting eaten is a just punishment, befitting of the lowly animals that they are.

Oooooh, more of you making up specific scenarios to justify a general rule! You know that's argumentative BS, right?

"But... but... but... people might not CARE if you are eating aliens!"

The aliens in question are still intelligent people, just not human.

The thing about open general OPs is that since there aren't any specifics, we when answering have to give the best general answers we can. So far, the consensus seems to be "It depends on the situation" followed by "Yes".

"It depends on the situation" is quite frankly one of the most fitting answers given. So when you say that the aliens of which we have no specific information on will react a certain way, you are not considering the other possibilites.

And yet you keep up making very specific scenarios to justify yourself, including magic human ray guns that not only kill aliens, but clean and prepare them for eating.

Do you even know what cannibalism is?

Main Entry: can·ni·bal·ism
Pronunciation: \ˈka-nə-bə-ˌli-zəm\
Function: noun
Date: 1796

1 : the usually ritualistic eating of human flesh by a human being
2 : the eating of the flesh of an animal by another animal of the same kind
3 : an act of cannibalizing something
— can·ni·bal·is·tic \ˌka-nə-bə-ˈlis-tik\ adjective

Gee, looks like there's nothing in there about humans eating aliens!

There aren't any known ETIs right now as of when the dictionary was made, are there? I would consider eating any intelligent civilized being to be cannibalism, because the same morals and ethics apply to them.

I wouldn't be so sure. What if our enemy is intelligent, but physically very frail and has to rely on genetically engineered monsters or specially bred and trained war animals to do their fighting for them? We'd be killing those in battle for the most part.

Or suppose they have a strange religion where only those who get eaten by something can enter The True Paradise, thus in their eyes when we eat them we're doing their soldiers a favour.

Or suppose we are actullay fighting a hive mind who thinks nothing of losing a few thousand bodies.

Or suppose the leader of the alien civilization is an obsessive bean counter, and started the war with humanity to see how efficent we are at battle and managing resources.

We don't know more about the enemy the OP has humans fighting and eating. We can only answer the best we can.

Are you just making up more and more shit, or what?

"But... but... what if they are a race of hyperintelligent hotdog eaters and want to match stomaches with us on the battlefield!"

[loomer]

Or suppose the leader of the alien civilization is an obsessive bean counter, and started the war with humanity to see how efficent we are at battle and managing resources.

That's a stupid, downright idiotic way to determine that.

To the human eye. An alien species may not believe the same, think the same, or even consider its soldiers as sentient. It is quite likely they will have entirely different thought patterns and concepts in many areas.

[PeZook]

To the human eye. An alien species may not believe the same, think the same, or even consider its soldiers as sentient. It is quite likely they will have entirely different thought patterns and concepts in many areas.

Jesus...they may this, they may that, they may even love to be kicked in their alien balls!

Is it really so hard to understand the phrase "If we don't know shit about them, It's safer, from a practical standpoint, not to eat them untill we know for sure they are tribalistic cannibal-worshippers?"

Morality is just an add-on to that. From a utilitarian standpoint, it would be moral for us to eat them it if produced a result which minimizes suffering (eg. fostering peace). However, when we don't know anything about them, it's safer to refrain from doing something like that untill we know.

Because the same "maybe" argument would also apply (and be exactly as stupid...) to using mundicidal bioweapons which induce an excruciating death. After all, they may like pain

[loomer]

Actually, I was just pointing out a flaw in Zixinus's reasoning.

[Zixinus]

To the human eye. An alien species may not believe the same, think the same, or even consider its soldiers as sentient. It is quite likely they will have entirely different thought patterns and concepts in many areas.

And that justifies something as insane as starting a war how? War is inheritably a very expensive thing to do, even if you don't care about the soldiers. Their weapons have to be made, they have to be fed, they have to be trained, they need equipmet and vehicles such as spaceships.

Furthermore, by waging war you are likely to make that race xenophobic and when you do that, there goes the neightberhood. You have made one race very xenophobic, whom are more likely to react to any approach with nuclear warheads then with baskets o' fruit and hugs. Guess which one is more favourable.

And what happens when the alien race is far better then expected? What if they don't just start killing soldiers but civilian worlds?

Waging war to determine how good your soldiers are is idiotic from an utility standpoint, not from the human standpoint.

This is the same line of reasoning that some Ufon(a)uts use to justify someone coming several lightyears and then prod some cattle and occasionaly do some anal probing on the hapless locals.

[Sarevok]

It is hard to say whether aliens would mind if humans ate them in battle. After all alien psychology could be as different as termites and humans. Morality is something humans invented for themselves. Aliens may not have any concept of it or have a different system.

[PeZook]

It is hard to say whether aliens would mind if humans ate them in battle. After all alien psychology could be as different as termites and humans. Morality is something humans invented for themselves. Aliens may not have any concept of it or have a different system.

In an infinite universe, you can probably find some who would, and some who wouldn't. But if you know nothing at all, it's best to refrain from eating them untill you know more.

See my analogy about world-destroying bioweapons. Would it be moral to use them against aliens? Why not? Somewhere there might be a race of sentient beings who enjoy puking out their own intestines.

[Sidewinder]

You have made one race very xenophobic, whom are more likely to react to any approach with nuclear warheads then with baskets o' fruit and hugs.

I think you meant "more likely to react to any approach with nuclear warheads than with baskets o' fruit and hugs." (Unless you think the aliens are going to get their asses kicked and decide to make amends with human warriors.)

[The Yosemite Bear]

purrs, stays away from human veggies...

[Gil Hamilton]

I think you meant "more likely to react to any approach with nuclear warheads than with baskets o' fruit and hugs." (Unless you think the aliens are going to get their asses kicked and decide to make amends with human warriors.)

Well, if you read Ender's Game, his made sense too.

However, I think you are just nitpicking a typo.

[The Yosemite Bear]

I was thinking more to the point the Kzin who are deathly allergic to certain veggies, simular to STTNG anime reffrenced warrior thugs the "Naasicaans" who keep giving Picard a hard time.

[Mayabird]

I'm sure that when you're petitioning to join the Intergalactic Society of Military Superpowers, the fact that your population ate the corpses of another sentient species, not out of necessity, but because they tasted good, is going to score major points with the committee.

Adding to what DP said, while we're doing all those silly psychoanalyzing of what aliens might or might not mind, no one has considered that they might be psychoanalyzing us. If they did, it would go something like this:

"They consider the eating of their own dead as a vile crime, completely unethical wrongdoing, permissible only in extreme circumstances where survival is in question. They are not to eat their own dead as they do dumb animals. Then, they eat our dead, not because they are starving, but because they think we're tasty meat. What does that say about what they think of us?

"Yes, that was rhetorical. I vote we drop a singularity on them."

[The Yosemite Bear]

but it was the sentient crustations from Bayou 7!!!!