use for b5 ships

[starfury]

on ST VS SW board there was debate on possible imperial use of trek ships, can b5 ships be any use either to the imps.

I feel the large EF warlock-class destoryers will be the only YR ship of any use to the imperials if they are short on hulls, it's fairly lage and already have alot of empty space, if can be modifed with imperial tech into a fairly decent ship.

the rest of the YR ships should be scrapped, the omegas don't even have artifical g, the the minbari/narn/centuari ships are just too small to be modifed, they minbari cruiser has the added handicap of using a fairly different technolgy so can't be used in any way but for target practice or cannon fodder.

[Dark Primus]

Well the Earth Alliance has proven to be capable to build ships equal in size to Star Destroyers but i feel their ships would be consider to be inferior by far. They would mostly scrap them and use the materials for something else.

[Wicked Pilot]

The Imps may find some use for the hyperspace engines, other than that, the EA ships are of pretty little worth.

[Mr. B]

Use the hulls and put better hyperdrives on them along with TL and shields. They would prove useful as a local defence force.

[Renewed_Valour1]

The Imps may find some use for the hyperspace engines, other than that, the EA ships are of pretty little worth.

They could always adapt a variant of jump gate tactics.

[Master of Ossus]

Some B5 ships might be worth upgrading. They are better put-together than ST ships, and many may find some use after extensive overhauls. Technomage technology might be interesting.

[Omega-13]

B5 ships hulls are like tin foil when compared to that of a stardestroyer, the b5 ships, if any that would be modified to be used in the Imperial navy would be good for carrying supplies, in non combat situations

[HRogge]

They could always adapt a variant of jump gate tactics.

With SW power generation levels the Empire could use the hypergate technologie to build huge "jumpgate-warhead" missiles...

[paladin]

on ST VS SW board there was debate on possible imperial use of trek ships, can b5 ships be any use either to the imps.

I feel the large EF warlock-class destoryers will be the only YR ship of any use to the imperials if they are short on hulls, it's fairly lage and already have alot of empty space, if can be modifed with imperial tech into a fairly decent ship.

the rest of the YR ships should be scrapped, the omegas don't even have artifical g, the the minbari/narn/centuari ships are just too small to be modifed, they minbari cruiser has the added handicap of using a fairly different technolgy so can't be used in any way but for target practice or cannon fodder.

If Omegas don't have artifical gravity, then why does the crew appearing to be operating normally. The rotating section of the Omega class generates a form of artifical gravity.

The Narn/Centuari/Minbari all produce large ships. Until the Whitestars, any ship in B5 needed to be aleast 500 meters long to house a jump engine.

How is Minbari tech fairly different? I believe the grav drive the Warlocks use is based on Minbari design.

[Master of Ossus]

B5 ships hulls are like tin foil when compared to that of a stardestroyer, the b5 ships, if any that would be modified to be used in the Imperial navy would be good for carrying supplies, in non combat situations

I was referring to SF's inexplicable need for force-fields just to hold the ship together! You are quite correct, they are nowhere near as strong as ISD hulls, but they would not fall apart if someone sneezed.

The rest of their technology, though, is even worse than most of that in ST. Only a few bits of technology would be interesting for the Empire. You are correct, it would take a massive overhaul to make most B5 ships capable of operating effectively in the SW universe, but it seems more feasible than upgrading ST ships. The B5 ships don't fall apart on their own, and they also seem to have better electronics packages that tend not to explode.

[Enlightenment]

The B5 ships don't fall apart on their own, and they also seem to have better electronics packages that tend not to explode.

I think you might be overstating the survivability of B5 ships by a little. B5 ships don't really suffer from the Trek exploding bridge console problem; it does, however, have an equivalent brainbug in the form of large beams falling out of the ceiling and crushing people flat.

[Pablo Sanchez]

If Omegas don't have artifical gravity, then why does the crew appearing to be operating normally. The rotating section of the Omega class generates a form of artifical gravity.

Centrifugal force is no substitute for "true" artificial gravity and acceleration compensators. The EA Omega cannot undergo acceleration of more than a small fraction gee--if they did, the crew would be thrown into the rear wall.

The Narn/Centuari/Minbari all produce large ships. Until the Whitestars, any ship in B5 needed to be aleast 500 meters long to house a jump engine.

I'm not sure about 500 meters, but still... so what?

How is Minbari tech fairly different? I believe the grav drive the Warlocks use is based on Minbari design.

As far as I know, that's true. But since EA ships were able to fight with the Minbari (fight, not win) it stands to reason that Minbari gravity drives can't be too much faster than the human propulsion. Otherwise the humans could never have even attempted a defense, the Minbari would have just run circles around them.

SW ships have stronger hulls, superior power generation, and vastly superior acceleration. I can see the First Ones producing ships of some utility to the Empire, but Minbari and younger models would be scrapped unless there was a critical shortage of hulls.

[consequences]

The First Ones really weren't that far ahead of the younger races in ship technology though, at least not the shadows and Vorlons.

[paladin]

If Omegas don't have artifical gravity, then why does the crew appearing to be operating normally. The rotating section of the Omega class generates a form of artifical gravity.

Centrifugal force is no substitute for "true" artificial gravity and acceleration compensators. The EA Omega cannot undergo acceleration of more than a small fraction gee--if they did, the crew would be thrown into the rear wall.

Pablo, Starfury was implying that Omegas didn't have any way of generating gravity-like effect. Also, earth did give "true" artifical gravity until it got grav drive tech. Until then, centrifugal force was the best solution.

The Narn/Centuari/Minbari all produce large ships. Until the Whitestars, any ship in B5 needed to be aleast 500 meters long to house a jump engine.

I'm not sure about 500 meters, but still... so what?

It's to show that B5 races can produce big hulls. Starfury was making it seem like the only large ship in B5 was the Warlock class and all other ships were super small. Matter of fact, some of the larger B5 ship are almost as long as an ISD. That doesn't mean they have the same internal volume as an ISD nor are they as strongly constructed.

How is Minbari tech fairly different? I believe the grav drive the Warlocks use is based on Minbari design.

As far as I know, that's true. But since EA ships were able to fight with the Minbari (fight, not win) it stands to reason that Minbari gravity drives can't be too much faster than the human propulsion. Otherwise the humans could never have even attempted a defense, the Minbari would have just run circles around them.

SW ships have stronger hulls, superior power generation, and vastly superior acceleration. I can see the First Ones producing ships of some utility to the Empire, but Minbari and younger models would be scrapped unless there was a critical shortage of hulls.

I never stated B5 ships having anything superior to SW ships. Only a complete fool would try to say B5 ships were superior. Even compared to ST ships, B5 ships are still inferior.

[Cpt_Frank]

Even compared to ST ships, B5 ships are still inferior.

Now they don't go up every time someone looks at the warp core the wrong way. Perhaps they can use the B5 ships as short-range patrol craft with some refitting.

[Master of Ossus]

The primary advantages (as far as this goes) of B5 ships over ST ships is that:

They have more volume devoted to weapons and power, by percentage. This would allow them to be modified and upgraded far more easily than ST ships.

Their engines appear to be at least reasonably compatible with SW engines. Thus, the entire ship would not have to be redesigned, its engines would merely need to be replaced.

Their ships have more interior space devoted to servicing fighters. This is a large advantage over ST ships, because it allows an even partially-modified B5 ship to be able to significantly bolster a task force, even if all it can do is ferry fighters into combat and back out again. This means that it would be a reasonable picket ship for an ISD or similar, and that it could easily be modified to engage pirates, scout territory, or as a patrol ship/customs ship.

Their ships are REASONABLY well built. Not nearly so well as Imperial ships, mind you, but better off than ST ships.

Now, it is possible that it would still be prohibitively expensive to upgrade B5 ships (more expensive than just to build a new one), but I believe that it appears to be a reasonably cost-effective, if stop-gap, measure.

[starfury]

It's to show that B5 races can produce big hulls. Starfury was making it seem like the only large ship in B5 was the Warlock class and all other ships were super small. Matter of fact, some of the larger B5 ship are almost as long as an ISD. That doesn't mean they have the same internal volume as an ISD nor are they as strongly constructed.

true, but minbari sharlin seem if you go by offical size to be only 600 meters, narn/centuari ships are fairly comparable in size as well 600 meters. Only EF builds rather big ships for the YR. the Omega/warlock are as long as the ISD though.

I thought the minbari ships are relatively diffcult to modify as they use crystalline tech, as opposed to the simple mechancial designs on the EF/narn/centauri ships.

[Master of Ossus]

Actually, the Sharlin is about 1600 meters long--about as long as an ISD. It does not have as much internal volume, but it is just as long.

Again, the primary advantages of B5 ships over ST ships is that their technology appears to be more compatible with Imperial technology.

[starfury]

Actually, the Sharlin is about 1600 meters long--about as long as an ISD. It does not have as much internal volume, but it is just as long.

well, I always thought of it as half the length of the EF destoryers, mainly from "Endgame" and Brian young's page, and the offical size if goto Babtech once the minbari page goes up is said to be 600 meters.

basicly "endgame" just stuck to my head the thought of the sharlin to be half the length of the omega, but as tall as the earth ship is long.

well on this, I guess it's best to agree to disagree.

[Master of Ossus]

I was getting my length from scaling I have done from the B5 station and its official length of 5 miles. Incidentally, if the ship is only 600 meters long, how does it fit all of the Nials inside and still be as roomy as we see in ITB?

[starfury]

For example, when Ivonova threatens a freighter captain with a 200 megawatt pulse cannon (the type of weapon that the station was upgraded to mount), it becomes an "inconsistency," or an antipersonnel cannon that she would use to mow down the crew. Why can't it be taken at face value? They will see a large Minbari warcruiser and a smaller warcruiser in the same episode; and the smaller one becomes an inconsistency. How can this be justified? What if the big one is an inconsistency? After all, the official length is 600 meters. Not 1600, but 600. So why is the smaller one an "inconsistency?"

I got this quote from babtech from the link at SWTC, the information there is very conservative for b5, but does seem consistent with what we saw in the show.

[Master of Ossus]

It's not an inconsistency. Neither is. They are either variations, or different classes of ships, or one of them is being seen from a distance and another is being seen up-close. A 600 meter Sharlin does not have the interior volume to store as many Nials as we see on screen. It is inconsistent with reality. The ship must be larger, it is merely a question of how much larger.

[Cpt_Frank]

But the Victory class destroyers would have to be decomissioned, since
the Empire already has a Victory class destroyer.

[Enlightenment]

Incidentally, if the ship is only 600 meters long, how does it fit all of the Nials inside and still be as roomy as we see in ITB?

They use the Minbari version of Tardis, same as in the White Stars' docking bay of sufficient size.

Seriously, 1,600m seems an unreasonably large figure for the length of a Sharlin. 1,600m tall would be much more in line with the VFX

[Ender]

Even compared to ST ships, B5 ships are still inferior.

You're kidding, right? The low end calc for Mimbari Neutron cannons is 250 MT/sec, with 500 MT being more likly. And it mounts 18 of them, plus 18 Fusion Beam Cannons, 24 Light Neutron Cannons, 24 Light Fusion Beam Cannons, 1 Antimatter Cannons, 2 Light Antimatter Cannons, and 4 Missile Tubes. Omegas are designed to be able to hold their own against them (Though really they can't unless its 2:1) and Warlocks are better then them. Centuari cruisers are about the same strength as EA ships, with the Narn shortly behind them (Which changed with the ISA). Weapons range has been pegged for around 10,000 km based on LotR, even though parts of the shows indicate a higher range, and their missiles are rated at 500 MT based on the ones the Narn provided at the end of the Shadow War. Plus their defensive systems would do great against Trek weapons, as Interceptors would stop phasers cold and their hulls deflect 80% of all the weapons damage.

When it comes to debates between ST and B5, it comes down to 2 things: Damage absorption (In typical trekkie fashion, they cling to the fact a 2 MT bomb took out the Black Star, ignoring how much damage the ships were able to take in the many battles in the series) and FTL travel (always comes down to "Trek would blow up the jump gates!" )