Armageddon???? (Part Fifty Up)

[Darth Wong]

Incredible. Hell on Earth. I swear, I would not mind it if a good chunk of the later chapters got sidetracked from the Hell and Demon storylines and concentrated more on this Sheffield thing. Or, at least, have this featured prominently for the next bunch of chapters.

Will the magma flow eventually stop? Or will the portal keep on spewing lava until the volcano in hell runs out of magma? Pyroclastic clouds! Lahar! Talk about Dante's Peak!

That depends on how deep into the lava pool the Naga were able to extend the portal.

It's obviously going to be extremely difficult to stop a lava flow. At best, they can try to direct it until the flow stops. But it has to go somewhere; whatever barriers you create to contain it will eventually become overwhelmed either by heat, pressure, or simple overflow as lava hardens into rock and more lava flows over top of the barrier. Until the flow stops, there is no feasible way to contain it. If the ground is fairly flat, the only real defense is to trade space for time, building defenses that will slow it down temporarily and falling back as you try to evacuate people from the region.

I don't know the geography of that area. Ideally there will be a slope along which they can direct the lava flow, and this slope will lead to a body of water.

[Shroom Man 777]

That'd be good in preventing the lava from killing people. Sucks for the river though, it'd end up transmogrifying into a body of flowing cement.

Still, this is great! I mean, this story is so epic! Not only do we see humanity taking on demons, we'll also see humanity battling volcanoes (from hell!). Aside from the imagery of military's ball-breaking might, we get to see engineers and disaster relief forces battling something that makes Mt. St. Helens and Mt. Pinatubo combined look like... geological zits.

Hm, don't the Icelanders have lots of experience with this kind of volcano-fighting stuff?

[CaptainChewbacca]

Incredible. Hell on Earth. I swear, I would not mind it if a good chunk of the later chapters got sidetracked from the Hell and Demon storylines and concentrated more on this Sheffield thing. Or, at least, have this featured prominently for the next bunch of chapters.

Will the magma flow eventually stop? Or will the portal keep on spewing lava until the volcano in hell runs out of magma? Pyroclastic clouds! Lahar! Talk about Dante's Peak!

We're really not in the right sort of eruption for pyroclastic clouds or lahars, but the lava will probably take 3-4 days before it stops moving, unless it hits some barriers.

Stuart, if you need help figuring out how the lava will behave/move/travel in Detroit, please let me know, I've got the maps.

Hm, don't the Icelanders have lots of experience with this kind of volcano-fighting stuff?

Only in the same way that a short-order cook has familiarity with preparing a nine-course state dinner. Really, the magnitude and severity of this eruption isn't something we've seen in the western world in the modern era.

[Starglider]

You can probably guess that Stuart did the last scene since he uses the term 'gasoline' rather than 'petrol'...

I don't know the geography of that area. Ideally there will be a slope along which they can direct the lava flow, and this slope will lead to a body of water.

Here's the map I used when writing those scenes;



There are some scenes relating to lava containment coming up.

[Darth Wong]

I found this site on the topology of the area:

http://www.map21ltd.com/COSTC11/Sheffie ... dscape.htm

Looks like the the east end of town is a bad place to be: it's only 10m above sea level, while the elevation rises to over 500m in the peak district on the west side. That's a pretty remarkable range of elevations for one relatively small city, but it also bodes well for rescue efforts: the hilly topology means that as the lava flow continues, it will naturally funnel into predictable paths around natural obstacles, and with a predictable general direction.

Of course, if you're sitting at 10m above sea level right now at the east end of town and there's a shitload of lava at 200m above sea level in the city centre, you might want to move ...

[CaptainChewbacca]

I was gonna say that's a helluva fast lava flow, but if those elevation numbers are right an hour is probably generous.

I'm a bit curious as to how you're getting boulders and bombs outside of the initial 'drop zone', though. Nothing should really be coming 'up' and arcing outside of the area, and if you're opening onto an existing magma chamber you wouldn't have the right conditions for the formation of projectiles.

[El Moose Monstero]

I found this site on the topology of the area:

http://www.map21ltd.com/COSTC11/Sheffie ... dscape.htm

Looks like the the east end of town is a bad place to be: it's only 10m above sea level, while the elevation rises to over 500m in the peak district on the west side. That's a pretty remarkable range of elevations for one relatively small city, but it also bodes well for rescue efforts: the hilly topology means that as the lava flow continues, it will naturally funnel into predictable paths around natural obstacles, and with a predictable general direction.

Of course, if you're sitting at 10m above sea level right now at the east end of town and there's a shitload of lava at 200m above sea level in the city centre, you might want to move ...

Actually, I think on the figure you're looking at (if it's Figure 2), Sheffield is the area encircled by the red road pretty much slap bang on the join between the two tributaries and the river. Sheffield MDC is Sheffield Metropolitan District Council's entire area of jurisdiction, not just covering the city itself.

[Darth Wong]

So the town is generally located on the eastern side of that map to begin with? What's the elevation of the city centre? It should still slope down to the Don, right?

[Starglider]

Nothing should really be coming 'up' and arcing outside of the area

Portals are double-sided; anything that goes in one side will come out the 'opposite' side of the other mouth. If you open a portal in the middle of a body of liquid, it will rush in from both sides and then spray out both sides. Since this portal is parallel with the ground, that means half the lava shoots down in a concentrated stream while the other half sprays up.

I'm certainly not a volcanologist so I can't say anything authorative about the mechanism for the long-range projectiles. However we know there are a lot of volatiles (either disolved or in pockets) in this particular lava, just from the amount of toxic smoke it was giving off when we saw it under relatively placid conditions in hell.

and if you're opening onto an existing magma chamber

The portal is sited within the throat, not the underlying magma chamber; there's no way a microwave signal is going to penetrate that much rock. As it is, the Sheffield portal is only 50 feet wide despite having several times the effective power of the chorus that opened the Hellmouth (which was 1200 feet across).

Note that this particular problem does not apply for aquatic portals. If you want a real disaster scenario, consider the seagoing demons opening a portal from as deep as they can dive to the sky over downtown Delhi.

[El Moose Monstero]

So the town is generally located on the eastern side of that map to begin with? What's the elevation of the city centre? It should still slope down to the Don, right?

Yeh, but not quite to the extremes that you might have got the impression of from the map. This rough and possibly difficult to read overlay that I just put together might help.

The map has the main roads marked enabling me to get a point of reference. The inverted colour region is what is denoted on UK road maps as being the city itself (or at the least, regions of dense buildings and suburbs). As near as I can tell, the lava and damage zones indicated by starglider's map are within the bright blue circle, and although you can't really tell too easily due to the need to show the city as well as the contours, it's mainly all within the 30m contour. The map is just a rough idea, but it might make comparison with topographic maps a bit easier using the road networks for reference.

[CaptainChewbacca]

Portals are double-sided; anything that goes in one side will come out the 'opposite' side of the other mouth. If you open a portal in the middle of a body of liquid, it will rush in from both sides and then spray out both sides. Since this portal is parallel with the ground, that means half the lava shoots down in a concentrated stream while the other half sprays up.

Okay, this makes sense. Its not a faucet of lava, its a big honking fountain going in both directions. Makes much more sense.

I'm certainly not a volcanologist so I can't say anything authorative about the mechanism for the long-range projectiles. However we know there are a lot of volatiles (either disolved or in pockets) in this particular lava, just from the amount of toxic smoke it was giving off when we saw it under relatively placid conditions in hell.

Projectiles generally come from more violent eruptions. Now, if they triggered an eruption INTO the portal, then you'll get the bombs. Toxic gas is definitely going to be a problem, especially in the lower areas.

Note: Your toxic gasses will flow downhill at about 90 mph, a LOT faster than your lava will be travelling. Most people will asphyxiate before they even know there's lava coming.

Note that this particular problem does not apply for aquatic portals. If you want a real disaster scenario, consider the seagoing demons opening a portal from as deep as they can dive to the sky over downtown Delhi.

Aside from the fact that this might cause a leviathan to re-enact a scene from Hitch-Hiker's Guide to the galaxy, I find it quite disturbing. If you could open a portal to some infernal ocean, I imagine draining it completely into earth's ocean would mess us up quite nicely. Heck, drop an ocean into the great lakes and watch America grind to a halt.

[Starglider]

Note: Your toxic gasses will flow downhill at about 90 mph, a LOT faster than your lava will be travelling. Most people will asphyxiate before they even know there's lava coming.

Noted. Two factors may mitigate this for Sheffield; the (light) wind is blowing uphill, and the ambient air temperature was only a few degrees, meaning that there will be near-immediate massive convection effects and inrushing air that will suck the smoke up into a mushroom cloud. I imagine the wind strength will increase steadily as the lava area grows and limit the rate at which the fires spread at the cost of making the central firestorm even more intense. Toxic gases are still a very serious problem though.

If you could open a portal to some infernal ocean, I imagine draining it completely into earth's ocean would mess us up quite nicely. Heck, drop an ocean into the great lakes and watch America grind to a halt.

I don't think there's enough water in all of Hell to make a significant difference to earth sea levels, but dumping even a small sea on an inhabited country is going to cause rather severe problems. Of course, there's a biblical precedent for this as well...

[CaptainChewbacca]

Noted. Two factors may mitigate this for Sheffield; the (light) wind is blowing uphill, and the ambient air temperature was only a few degrees, meaning that there will be near-immediate massive convection effects and inrushing air that will suck the smoke up into a mushroom cloud. I imagine the wind strength will increase steadily as the lava area grows and limit the rate at which the fires spread at the cost of making the central firestorm even more intense. Toxic gases are still a very serious problem though.

That 'mushrooming' effect won't help as much as you think. The dust/gas/debris flow is MUCH denser than air, and while you may have an initial vapor tower, that is going to crash VERY quickly and drive winds out and away from the event, not towards it.

Also note: If your eruption is as energetic as I think it is, you'll be having health hazards from ash and debris out to a considerable distance. Manchester, Nottingham, and perhaps even Birmingham are going to get coatings of ash and debris.

[El Moose Monstero]

Also note: If your eruption is as energetic as I think it is, you'll be having health hazards from ash and debris out to a considerable distance. Manchester, Nottingham, and perhaps even Birmingham are going to get coatings of ash and debris.

Prevailing winds in the UK will usually go to the east, particularly in Sheffield, I suppose, as the elevated peak districts are to the west, presumably any resuspended ash material, or even an initial plume will be driven eastward. I can't find an annual wind rose or anything like that, but there's not much to the east of Sheffield - lots of small towns which will be under threat, but no major population centres aside from maybe Lincoln and *snigger* Grimsby. Northern europe, particularly nordic countries might get some of it though; they used to get our acid rain, now they can have our ashfall and our plume.

If it's a major large fountaining eruption, then I don't see why ashfall might not reach as far as it did from Laki - ashfall from Iceland reached Northern Scotland as did the acid gases, giving it at least a 500 mile range.

EDIT: Actually, flicking through t'internet - Laki might be an excellent case study for possible effects of this eruption.

Laki lasted 8 months, ejecting 15 km3 of lava in total, with fire fountains reaching supposedly 1400m in height and a lava discharge rate of 8600 m3/second, lava travelling 35 km in 5 days, a volcanic aerosol haze covering all of Iceland with presumably large quantities of acid deposition (fluorosis killed many cattle herds), ashfall reaching well into mainland europe and the eruption caused a northern hemisphere cooling of 1 degree from aerosols.

basic info scoured from here

[pdf27]

Simmonite? Move this vehicle off the road, it’s a four-wheel drive so the Home Guard will be wanting it. Clegg, Dewhurst, move two-wheel drives off to that field over there.

Hmm.... I wonder who these might be...

[Darth Wong]

Just how far can the naga project their portal away from themselves? And how far away is Tartarus from the hellmouth? It was roughly 2 days of flight time to get to Tartarus from Dis. If we assume that these wyverns are really fast (like 100 km/h) and need no rest, that could be as much as five thousand kilometres away. I believe that's within the range of a B-52 or other strategic bomber, provided they can get them operational in this environment.

If the atmospheric pollutants are due to the super-caldera in the middle of the land mass, you would think that aircraft could avoid a lot of the problems by simply flying at very high altitude.

[Teebs]

I assume you're referring to Nick Clegg with the Clegg thing, but he'd almost certainly be occupying some ministerial position with the whole government of national unity thing going on. At least based on the precedent of the second world war when the liberals did get cabinet positions and were far weaker than they are now.

[JN1]

I assume you're referring to Nick Clegg with the Clegg thing, but he'd almost certainly be occupying some ministerial position with the whole government of national unity thing going on. At least based on the precedent of the second world war when the liberals did get cabinet positions and were far weaker than they are now.

Nope he's just called up the cast of Last of the Summer Wine (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Last_of_the_Summer_Wine), the longest running sitcom in the world.
Stu I take it that is Lance-Corporal Dewhurst, former sign-writer.
Simmonite will probably be rather untidy and a bit lazy. Batty is also a character from the series, and I wouldn't be surprised to discover somebody in the REME called Pegden.
No Blamire, Utterthwaite, or Truelove yet though.

I love seeing a Webley Mark V, now that was an impressive weapon. A .455 round would make a mess of anyone it hits, even a baldrick might notice it.

[Starglider]

If we assume that these wyverns are really fast (like 100 km/h) and need no rest.

100 km/h is not 'really fast' for a large flying creature. Wyverns range in size from roughly equivalent to a DC-3 to roughly equivalent to a C-130. The stall speed for a DC-3 on approach is 108 km/h. Of course wyverns being living creatures have highly variable wing geometry and vectored thrust, which they need to get airborne at all (along with a long runup), but you get the point.

[Stuart]

Just how far can the naga project their portal away from themselves? And how far away is Tartarus from the hellmouth? It was roughly 2 days of flight time to get to Tartarus from Dis. If we assume that these wyverns are really fast (like 100 km/h) and need no rest, that could be as much as five thousand kilometres away. I believe that's within the range of a B-52 or other strategic bomber, provided they can get them operational in this environment.

If the atmospheric pollutants are due to the super-caldera in the middle of the land mass, you would think that aircraft could avoid a lot of the problems by simply flying at very high altitude.

It's 10,326 miles from the hellmouth in the Martial Plain of Dysprosium to Tartarus. It's a doable raid using strategic bombers but it will require air-to-air refuelling the strike force twice (once going in and once coming out).

The naga can project the portal between themselves - that is, if they form a ring, the portal will be in the center of that ring; if there are two of them, the portal will be between them. How far from the Naga really depends on the arrays that are built to boost their power; also for a given level of power, the naga can create a much bigger gate at short range than they can at long. Hence the problems the poor Baroness Yulupki was having.

[Stuart]

Nope he's just called up the cast of Last of the Summer Wine (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Last_of_the_Summer_Wine), the longest running sitcom in the world. Stu I take it that is Lance-Corporal Dewhurst, former sign-writer.

He is indeed. Cleggie is quite the philosopher as well.

No Blamire, Utterthwaite, or Truelove yet though.

Give us a chance....... I've never seen Truelove of the Yard though; I'd left the UK by the time he arrived and the DVDs with him on haven't been released yet.

I love seeing a Webley Mark V, now that was an impressive weapon. A .455 round would make a mess of anyone it hits, even a baldrick might notice it.

A great revolver indeed. They're not uncommon over here although most have been rebored to take .45ACP.

[Crayz9000]

You know, on a slightly related note, I can see Iron Maiden (and probably some other metal bands) doing a Live in Hell concert for the troops. I mean, they've already done a Live after Death tour... and Maiden has definitely anti-Satanic imagery (see the cover of the Run to the Hills single, where Eddie's attacking Satan with a hatchet, and and the cover of The Number of the Beast where Eddie is holding Satan's decapitated head.)

[El Moose Monstero]

You know, on a slightly related note, I can see Iron Maiden (and probably some other metal bands) doing a Live in Hell concert for the troops. I mean, they've already done a Live after Death tour... and Maiden has definitely anti-Satanic imagery (see the cover of the Run to the Hills single, where Eddie's attacking Satan with a hatchet, and and the cover of The Number of the Beast where Eddie is holding Satan's decapitated head.)

And what about benefit gigs for the disaster struck regions of Detroit and Sheffield? LavaAid, anyone? "Send us yer fuckin' money now, some of these people are havin' to walk over fifty miles to get a pint, and just 10 pence will give them enough to raid the sweet machines and buy a pack of polos."

[Sidewinder]

Good to see some competence from the police force. (If Los Angeles had been attacked, the death count would probably be MUCH higher because the "civilians" there might turn against each other in a MONSTER riot. I consider that a possibility because I remember what happened after the first trial for the white police officers who beat Rodney King, a black man.)

[JN1]

He is indeed. Cleggie is quite the philosopher as well.

I think that he is probably the one member of the classic trio who is closest to being normal. Peter Sallis is also a great actor and is probably well known to our American readers as the voice of Wallace in the Wallace and Gromit films.

One thing I do wonder about Foggy is whether he really was a Chindit and that the Corporal sign writer thing was a cover? In LotSW he comes across as a bit cowardly when presented with potential danger, but in the prequel 'First of the Summer Wine' at one point he is prepared to take on the might of the German Army with nothing but an empty rifle and a bayonet.
My theory is that he suffered some great trauma in Burma and is still exhibiting the symptoms of PTSD.

Blamire was in the Royal Signals, so if you need a scalie in Sheffield then his name would be one to use. I don't know if Truelove was ever a squaddie, he probably spent the war as a policeman.
He's a good replacement for the late Brian Wilde, so keep an eye out for the DVDs. I must say I'm surprised that BBC America has not released them yet; you might try youtube though.

A great revolver indeed. They're not uncommon over here although most have been rebored to take .45ACP.

A bit of a handful, though, hence the move over to the .38 with the Enfield No.2 Mark 1 and Mark 1*, and the Webley Mark IV. The Enfield was a scaled-down version of the Webley Mark VI, and contrary to popular conception it was the Enfield that was army issue, though Webleys were bought during WW2 to make up the numbers.
Not sure I approve of reboring to .45ACP, but I guess .455 is not easy to obtain. Some M1911s were rebored to .455 for the RAF to take things the other way.