Perception of Gay Marriage

[Kitsune]

It has come up over and over again - this seeming fear of gay marriage. What do people seem to be afraid of with allowing gay marriage? Never seem to be able to get legitimate answers out of the people who argue against it who are not bible thumpers
To fight this perception, I have to understand it.......

[rhoenix]

This is something I'd be curious to find out more accurately myself. Whenever gay marriage comes up in a conversation with an acquaintance or friend, my usual facetious retort is "What, are you afraid the gay people are going to out-breed the straight people if they're allowed to get married?"

If I were going to hazard a guess, I think it goes back to the Middle Ages in Europe - where this "sanctity of marriage" supposedly came from, when the churches owned and filed all the marriage records.

[CaptJodan]

I always thought the majority of people who were against gay marriage WERE Bible thumpers in some fashion or form. This isn't true?

They may be fairly moderate religious people, but think that society actively "approving" of gay sex by allowing gay marriage makes even the moderates go "hey now, that there's a sin, and our society shouldn't promote a sin". They may even tell you that two gays shacking up doesn't bother them. It's just that they don't like the idea of being painted by the same brush by God (IE, allowing gay marriage in your democratic society means you are a sinner too).

I've never really heard a non-religious person describe why gay marriage shouldn't be legal, but then it's hard enough just finding a non-religious person in this area. What kind of reasons do these non-bible thumpers give you?

[Kitsune]

One of the people who I have been discussing with claims to be an Agnostic....

[Broomstick]

It has come up over and over again - this seeming fear of gay marriage. What do people seem to be afraid of with allowing gay marriage? Never seem to be able to get legitimate answers out of the people who argue against it who are not bible thumpers
To fight this perception, I have to understand it.......

I think there are people will to put up with homosexuality as sort of harmless aberration, but to allow gay marriage would legitimize and normalize homosexual relationships (and homosexual sex). Some people fear the definition of "normal" changing.

[Kitsune]

I think there are people will to put up with homosexuality as sort of harmless aberration, but to allow gay marriage would legitimize and normalize homosexual relationships (and homosexual sex). Some people fear the definition of "normal" changing.

Is there any way which they can be convinced that the changing of what is normal happens all the time and that it is not the end of the world....

Sometimes open warfare is such debates just makes it worse

[CaptJodan]

I think there are people will to put up with homosexuality as sort of harmless aberration, but to allow gay marriage would legitimize and normalize homosexual relationships (and homosexual sex). Some people fear the definition of "normal" changing.

Actually, that's kind of an interesting take, and I can see how it would be applied. With legal gay marriage, it would likely promote more openness for gay couples in public places, forcing those who don't have a problem with it so long as they don't see it to disapprove.

A heterosexual couple kissing in a park=not a big deal. A homosexual couple kissing in a park=gross. The "It's fine as long as I don't see it" phenomenon.

[Kitsune]

A heterosexual couple kissing in a park=not a big deal. A homosexual couple kissing in a park=gross. The "It's fine as long as I don't see it" phenomenon.

The way I see it is that maybe 2% of couples will ever be gay couple......your seeming them in a park will be very rare......

[Broomstick]

I think there are people will to put up with homosexuality as sort of harmless aberration, but to allow gay marriage would legitimize and normalize homosexual relationships (and homosexual sex). Some people fear the definition of "normal" changing.

Is there any way which they can be convinced that the changing of what is normal happens all the time and that it is not the end of the world....

Well, in my case an additional quarter-century of life did the trick nicely... but I assume you want something with quicker effect. Also, mere time alone does not work in all cases. Some people as they age refuse to learn to adapt. Not that I blame them - the world is a VERY different place than it was when I was 20 (the age of many on this forum), I expect in another 25 years or so it will be equally different. Changing to accommodate a shifting norm can be exhausting, frightening, and a state of chronic culture shock as well as at times being exhilarating, exciting (in a positive sense), and amazing.

[CaptJodan]

The way I see it is that maybe 2% of couples will ever be gay couple......your seeming them in a park will be very rare......

I imagine that depends on where you live. In Asstown, Alabama gay marriage wouldn't exactly send a deluge of gays to a park to express their emotions in public because a gay marriage act wouldn't exactly stop the hate mob. And in places like Key West, there probably wouldn't be much of an increase. It's more the middle ground areas which would likely see some kind of increase.

Put it this way. America, in general, has a hard time dealing with sex and children. Parents don't want to talk about normal sexual intercourse to their kids, and they want to talk about abnormal sexual behaviors even less. I imagine some people put up barriers, in part, because they may have to actually explain it to their children. Which, of course, is not an excuse.

I'd say the other thread that deals with this instinctual hostile reaction towards gay sex is also an indicator. On some, base, animalistic level, it's just not right to them.

[Kitsune]

Well, in my case an additional quarter-century of life did the trick nicely... but I assume you want something with quicker effect. Also, mere time alone does not work in all cases. Some people as they age refuse to learn to adapt. Not that I blame them - the world is a VERY different place than it was when I was 20 (the age of many on this forum), I expect in another 25 years or so it will be equally different. Changing to accommodate a shifting norm can be exhausting, frightening, and a state of chronic culture shock as well as at times being exhilarating, exciting (in a positive sense), and amazing.

Funny how many people turn into their own fathers and mothers...even the radicals of the Sixties

If you are around forty-five, I am not too far behind you at almost forty....
You are right that change has been massive. It has only been around a decade or so that gay marriage / civil unions / domestic partners has gotten a measure of acceptance in the USA.

One question is how is the younger generation dealing with teh concept of gay marriage....are they more accepting of most people of our generation or later.

[Kitsune]

Put it this way. America, in general, has a hard time dealing with sex and children. Parents don't want to talk about normal sexual intercourse to their kids, and they want to talk about abnormal sexual behaviors even less. I imagine some people put up barriers, in part, because they may have to actually explain it to their children. Which, of course, is not an excuse.

It is very true that sexuality is a strong part of being human but many people don't really want to talk about it and abnormal sexual behaviors are even less talked about.

[Darth Wong]

Yeah, when I was growing up, it was much, much worse for gays than it is now. I saw the change coming in the 1990s, analyzed it, did a bit of soul-searching, and decided that the gays had gotten a raw deal. But I'm sure a lot of my contemporaries went the opposite route, fearing what they call the "normalization of the gay lifestyle" and subsequent downfall of society.

[FSTargetDrone]

I'm 33 and I can't say I ever "hated" gays. Sure, there was the childish, "That's gay" or similar bullshit and relatively low-level homophobia between friends when we were in grade school, but in my case, that was about it. I never encountered any really nasty homophobia growing up, but I do have an uncle who's pretty homophobic.

One of my cousins is gay (and I suspect our uncle above doesn't know), one of my sister's friends is gay one of my old classmates is gay (didn't find out about him until last year or so), another old classmate from grade school is in a lesbian relationship. Another friend is bisexual. That's 5 G/L/B people that I personally know. I'm also pretty sure a few people I went to high school with are gay, but I haven't seen any of those people for years.

Sadly, the friend of my sister is estranged from his parents because he is gay.

[Alyrium Denryle]

Yeah, when I was growing up, it was much, much worse for gays than it is now. I saw the change coming in the 1990s, analyzed it, did a bit of soul-searching, and decided that the gays had gotten a raw deal. But I'm sure a lot of my contemporaries went the opposite route, fearing what they call the "normalization of the gay lifestyle" and subsequent downfall of society.

I love how I am somehow some sort of threat. I am, save when dressed in a rainbow cape and holding a sign that says "Come Unto Me and Know Me (Free Gay Kisses)" when mocking street preachers, one of the most unassuming, friendly and non-threatening people you can ever encounter. Yet, somehow, my being in a legally recognized happy and committed relationship will somehow harm society.

The number of non-sequiteurs involved in that line of thought is too funny for me to contemplate

[Ritterin Sophia]

One of the people who I have been discussing with claims to be an Agnostic....

There's your problem. Anyone who self-lables themselves as simply an agnostic is an ignorant fence sitter who engages in a massive Golden Mean Fallacy, so they can seem 'moderate'. It tell's you fuck all about what they believe except that they know of no evidence for or against God's existance, which is a 'no shit' thing, you can be an agnostic theist (like the moderate theists of SDN) or an agnostic atheist (most atheists fall under this area, we don't believe in a god because their's no evidence to validate this belief). You're better off ignoring the little wanker.