SD.net's World OOC/Discussion thread MK II

[The Yosemite Bear]

especially if I use my blimp building faculties to start sending a perfect storm of mylar encased aircraft aluminum kite bombs. A little physics means I can program them to drop graphite over his country, doing nothing more then temporarily blinding his radar, grounding his airforce, and stalling his ground vehicles, as well as clogging his waterways with silt/mud. In the long run it will make his country fertile, but in the short run, it will set things up for OMESK, MESS, and/or FUN to cripple him.

of course that expenditure of building materials would set me back finaincially quite a bit.

by quite a bit, I mean, my ability to repair or build new zepplins and aircraft would be greatly hindered.

[Shroom Man 777]

I would rather not black the sky, ala Matrix, to defeat the Super Saddam Special.

I do not want to do anything remotely near the Super Saddam Special.

[The Yosemite Bear]

nah, it would only create a solar shade for about a few days.

the ash though would make take off a bitch grounding his airforce, allowing people who fly above the ash cloud to strike with impunity. Oh and it would litterially snow in Saddamistan for a while....

[K. A. Pital]

We can just use old style nukes and nuke him...

Yeah, and I like the graphite idea, though we'd probably face a lot of bad RP over that.

Still, the ban should be enforced and if the only means to enforce it are to make a lesson by forcibly destroying a powerful nation, that could be it.

[DarthShady]

I would rather not black the sky, ala Matrix, to defeat the Super Saddam Special.

I do not want to do anything remotely near the Super Saddam Special.

I agree with Shroom. The FUN must thread carefully.

[Mr Bean]

War Waring:Use of Biological weapons by Saddamstain will be met by a strong response by the world

Result of Chemical weapons will result in much shaking of heads and tisking I suspect.

[Grand Moff Yenchin]

Lol..I go to Austin 1 day for a Fundie trip and the Sultan gets bombed

[MKSheppard]

Keep in mind that all Saddam has to do to defeat your planned "blacken the sky with BLIMP ash" is to shoot down the Blimps at 300 miles away with SAMs.

Either that, or turn off his radars before the ash reaches them, and then hose them off and turn them back on...

[Mr Bean]

Quick mention it should be March 20th(Roughly) 2010.

So T+ 2 years 3 months and 20 days since the STGOD began officially on New Years in 2008.

[Shroom Man 777]

Mmmm.... I wonder if pressuring the UAC for missiles like that is gonna be a bad thing for us. Probably Saddamistan won't attack anyone else but the Goddamn Libertopians...

I mean, it will cost money (for the missiles)!

[Master_Baerne]

Gentlemen, will there be multinational action against Saddamistan? If so, Baerne Island will be proud to contribute to world peace.

[Mr Bean]

Gentlemen, will there be multinational action against Saddamistan? If so, Baerne Island will be proud to contribute to world peace.

Have at it Hoss, go ahead were right behind you attacking a country with ICBM's.

Also Shepnukstain sorry, but we need to retain our Blackbeard missiles as we have both our Southern Fleet's deployed in a missile shield defense ATM. That kind of close in steaming means they are not in concentrated fleet elements at the moment but designed to stop airborne threats. By positioning Blackbeard shore launchers near where our ships our it gives them a great deal of protection despite being strung out in a an ABM line.

We can transfer some of our reloads and wait for the delayed delivery on the next ones as our home built S-400's will help close that gap until the remaining launchers can be delivered.

[DarthShady]

Gentlemen, will there be multinational action against Saddamistan? If so, Baerne Island will be proud to contribute to world peace.

Have at it Hoss, go ahead were right behind you attacking a country with ICBM's.

Bean is right, hide and hope you don't become a target.

[K. A. Pital]

Keep in mind that all Saddam has to do to defeat your planned "blacken the sky with BLIMP ash" is to shoot down the Blimps at 300 miles away with SAMs.

That's why I proposed conventional style nuking; blowing large swaths of graphite into the atmosphere to destroy his aerial capabilities and claim dominance to the airspace is workable too.

As for missiles, I could give a few out of my startegic reserve, but not all. I need to reserve at least half capacity. I might have to ship them to warzones, which might erupt with all this tension.

Baerne Island will be proud to contribute to world peace.

If there's a nation Saddamistan can utterly devastate with the highest success ratio, well, it's you... But I understand you're most of all concerned about Saddamistan's very existence due to the same fact.

[General Deathdealer]

1. Until your Gauss can reach 1,200 km, it can't reach the lowest of my satellites. I've not seen you claiming that kind of range, and if you are, it changes the metrics.

I said that the one we built was for testing. We do not know what range it will reach yet.

2. There exists one serious problem with your calculations, simply put Gauss Gun's are not efficient, in fact the best efficiency I've been able to find is 4% for a Gauss/Coil gun. What efficiency do you factor into get only 170 mw to accelerate a 4.5 Kilogram(10 pound) rod at 20 kilometers a second?

Please show you work

I am using an efficiency factor of 2%. I don't have my calculations on me right now as they are at work. I can post them on Monday when I get to work.

3. Finally there exists a problem common to Rail-guns and Coil guns that I mentioned but was glossed over, that of the issue with a cascade failure with the electromagnets. It's even worse in a Coil gun than a rail gun. A rail gun will react after the rail has left the barrel, the coil gun might send the projectile backwards and if the cascade is big enough, burn out enough magnets to make the barrel-unusable.

Worse, and here's the real kicker the more power you pump in, the greater the chance of a cascade failure. The tolerance's required to build your monster gun are beyond modern material science as even one slip up will result by your own estimates in arching with megawatts worth of electrical energy.

That is why the one we build is a testbed. As for the kick back, the info I got from the site I use for the info, says that they have solved that problem pretty effectively. The link is below.

link

[Mr Bean]

I said that the one we built was for testing. We do not know what range it will reach yet.

You can spin that as typical political bullshit, on the one hand, we've built a testbed, on the other hand we claim we are ready to shoot down ICBM's today, fine that's understandable. You don't get people excited to invest by being 100% honest.

I am using an efficiency factor of 2%. I don't have my calculations on me right now as they are at work. I can post them on Monday when I get to work.

Please do because the 170mw figure seems off considering how horribly inefficient a coil gun is.

That is why the one we build is a testbed. As for the kick back, the info I got from the site I use for the info, says that they have solved that problem pretty effectively. The link is below.

link

The kick back(Where the projectile accelerates the wrong way) is is one possible side affect of a Cascade failure. The main problem with a Cascade failure is the fact that your likely to burn out the gun because electronic parts are designed to have voltage flow through them a certain way, when something archs there's a good chance that voltage might flow through something the wrong way and result in burned out parts.

Also no electronic part is pefect, enough Amps through anything will burn it out. Which is why the greater the power in a Gauss rifle, the greater the possibility of failure and the increased chance of a catastrophic failure.


With the type of power being discussed here(And possibly more if your calculations for the power required are off) your talking about a weapon-system were any failure it's a one which not only jams the gun, but melts it and most of what it's sitting on too.And and one which is going to potentially blow out transforms for miles around considering how much power is required per shot, that power won't all ground itself or turn into heat.

Granted the last senario is a total circuit failure, and of all the possible technical problems is the one easiest to solve. But the essential problems remain, one I'm pretty sure your power ratio is off from an efficiency standpoint. Two, I'm not sure material's science is yet up to the task of running that much power through that small an area without future-tech.

And third, I'm suspicious of the fact that no one's built anything close to the scale your purposing here in RL which again imply future-tech which means your rushing it.


If there were a 50th scale model somewhere you could do it in two years, if plans for such a giant gun existed then maybe. But a year? At this scale? Please

[K. A. Pital]

Yeah. If I'd claim a workable 73 meter supersonic scramjet that would be way off. But a 1/20-1/70 scale? Fine enough.

If you don't know what to do, look at the current state of research in the field, and the kind of prototypes built. If they are small, it means serious engineering constraints disallow larger sizes, and the solution is down a few years, not now.

Also, smaller nations do lack the multibillion investment into materials etc to construct such monstrosity scientific projects.

EDIT: also, aren'y some of you guys overreacting? Saddamistan is waay far off in the south, and Langley for example is protected by the OMSK nations of UKB and RT, situated in the sea between Canissia, me, Shep and Bear.

That would look like, um, Taiwan getting agitated and military alert because of a military operation between Pakistan and Afghanistan.

[Lonestar]

EDIT: also, aren'y some of you guys overreacting? Saddamistan is waay far off in the south, and Langley for example is protected by the OMSK nations of UKB and RT, situated in the sea between Canissia, me, Shep and Bear.

Due to the proximity of MESS nations to Saddamistan, the LSR believes the deployment of a CSG is completely appropriate.

[K. A. Pital]

Well yeah. Considering Saddam can just go apeshit on either MESS or OMSK, it would be understandable for all allied nations in those groups to be alert.

[Beowulf]

Although the mass driver will require a peak output of 180GW or so of power, it's over the span of .01 seconds. At 170 MW, you can be ready to fire in about 10 minutes per shot.

[Mr Bean]

Although the mass driver will require a peak output of 180GW or so of power, it's over the span of .01 seconds. At 170 MW, you can be ready to fire in about 10 minutes per shot.

And how many car batteries of storage is that to hold to hold a 180 GW charge?

I kid about car batteries but seriously, you gotta store that energy some-where and again, Dutchy, 7 billion dollar GDP. That puts you in the ballpark of of Malta at best, The Bahamas at worst. I'm wondering where the multiple millions of dollars of R&D money is coming from? Do you have fellow MESS backers?

[Mr Bean]

Lets Review everything up until now

General Deathdealer's country(A Duchty)
Claims to have built a fixed emplacement Gauss Cannon/Coilgun capable of flinging a ten pound tungsten rod at 20km's a second. This cannon requires 170 MW to fire(We think) said projectile at said speed.

There exists no such weapon in our world, nor any on anyone's drawling boards. However a Dutchy claims to have designed, and built a test-model in under two years capable of the aforementioned speed. The cost for this weapon is not listed. However parrels can be drawn with the Navy's railgun efforts, and said R&D has taken four years and 237 million dollars and preliminary test model has JUST been built and tested. A deployable model is over ten years away.


Meanwhile, I stress again a Dutchy claims to have built and researched it's cannon for at or under 100 million in just two years.

Why is this fishy?

[RogueIce]

Do you have fellow MESS backers?

Yeah he does. The same way Lonestar and Beowulf have drawn on support from the MESS for some of their projects, and all of the OMSK was supporting Shep in his nuclear weapons program.

Anyway, that's a side issue to my most pressing concern at the moment: Saddamistan.

While it is true that the OMSK or the MESS could in the end, take him down (and indeed the whole of the world could) the simply fact is he'll cause a lot of damage first. Zoria is an OMSK member, after all. He is easily within striking range of Saddam. Just because the RT, UKB, Shepnukistan, et all have some distance (and buffer countries from the MESS and FUN) between them and Saddamistan, that doesn't make things any better for those caught in the middle.

Do you want to trade Zoria for Terra Libertia? And if you make it nuclear that makes things worse.

Further, I remind you that as far as we know, Saddamistan has no known biological weapons. And given how high his usual level of paranoia and security is, and that any such weapons would be, if anything, under tighter security, "stepped up intelligence operations" wouldn't seem to bear any fruit. I'm not even sure if satellite tasking would help, ignoring the fact he'd start shooting them down.

So no, we can't use his bioweapon as cassus belli because we don't know for sure they exist. And we probably will continue to not know, unless there is a confirmed usage by him ((OOC: Sea Skimmer posts he shot them off)). So let us not get too far ahead of ourselves here.

What we know for sure:

• Saddaistan has launched massive and devestating air strikes against the Sultan in nothern Terra Libertia.
• He has claimed that armed speedboats attacked his patrol forces, and that there was a "Jihadist Armada" poised to attack him. Neither of those claims have so far been confirmed.

That's it. Further, we don't even know what kind of military capability he has. So any war planning against his forces is largely theoretical at this point.

[Sea Skimmer]

War Waring:Use of Biological weapons by Saddamstain will be met by a strong response by the world

Result of Chemical weapons will result in much shaking of heads and tisking I suspect.

JT tularemia is an almost totally non lethal incapacitating agent (normal tularemia has like 1% lethality) developed by the US Army, and if it’s dispersed in a properly concealed manner you’ll have zero way of proving who’s responsible. Cluster bombs would be obvious, but Saddamistan has every type and variant of chemical and bio weapon delivery system you can think of.

Why the outbreaks could just be because Saddamistan bombed the local sewage treatment works…

It would be very foolish to go to war over such a thing, only to have your cities doused in anthrax and your armies laid waste by dusty VX.

[PeZook]

Uhh, Shep - none of us have actually claimed we want the Blackbeards right the fuck now OMG.

It won't help, since deployment will take a few months anyway. We were just wondering how far along the program was, and I made sone inquiries to Stas about pricing.

Our main problem is that Saddamistan has proven he will bomb the shit out of anyone he deems bombable (A Libertopian invasion armada? Please...), and we are in range, so we're scared.