Traviss: Mandos just as important as Jedi, Sith

Post by **Vympel** » 2008-05-10 03:04am

I've always respected him - his views on canon and continuity and what's wrong with it are in my view, right on the money (i.e. he openly and unapologetically states that the continuity is filled with garbage of all types, and he'd like to see whole swathes of it excised, but failing that, he sees no reason to acknowledge the crap exists in works under his 'jurisdiction' so to speak). And he openly expressed his distaste for the "Clones in love" Travissty.

QuentinGeorge · Post by **QuentinGeorge** » 2008-05-10 03:04am

Considering the bullshit filling the pages of the 'Star Wars: Legacy' comics, it's hard to tell what's worse: dozens, hundreds, or even thousands of Sith Lords running around (when history has REPEATEDLY shown that they'll spend more time killing each other than Jedi), or the Mando-wanking. Probably Darth Krayt's "Rule of One" and whatever magic is preventing his apprentices from ganging up on him, killing him and dismembering the body (if you must attack a Sith Lord, you MUST make sure he/she is dead), and then fighting each other for the throne.

Most of Krayt's minions are a) fairly weak and b) born into the Sith (some are third-generation). He's looked on as some sort of godlike father figure, so, even though he is crippled, dying and the galaxy is slipping from his grasp, they still show blind loyalty to him, to the extent of running halfway across the galaxy to find a way to stop him from dying.

Additionally, Krayt's order has no connection to any of the previous ones. It merely uses existing trappings and names but has little of the theology.

Just because someone's going around calling themselves "Sith" doesn't mean they have the exact same personality to previous Sith Lords. Krayt's mob are more akin to Palpatine's vast array of loyal darksiders.

EDIT: Schatten's answer is substantially correct. Krayt has no pupils even close to his level, and that's on purpose. It's not a Banite "powerful master/powerful apprentice" setup. It's a "powerful master/crappy mooks".

Darth Raptor · Post by **Darth Raptor** » 2008-05-10 04:47am

THANK YOU. The Sith died with Darth Sidious. The NSO is just a bunch of Dark Jedi wannabes. It's as sad as Russia trying to pretend it's still the Soviet Union.

No, gleefully using the Dark Side doesn't make you a Sith, you idiots. Not even if you're the Emperor's Appendage.

Connor MacLeod · Post by **Connor MacLeod** » 2008-05-10 04:56am

Frankly I can't gather up any indignation for this shit now. I can only get amused as it gets more and more insane.

Havok · Post by **Havok** » 2008-05-10 05:20am

Connor MacLeod wrote:Frankly I can't gather up any indignation for this shit now. I can only get amused as it gets more and more insane.

I'm actually starting to root for more wackiness.

Post by **Ghost Rider** » 2008-05-10 09:16am

Connor MacLeod wrote:Frankly I can't gather up any indignation for this shit now. I can only get amused as it gets more and more insane.

Indeed. At this point, you have the point, laugh and then read more interesting material. Maybe they'll do some good with the upcoming Clone Wars movie/TV shows, but the EU is becoming far too weirdly convulated.

Darth Hoth · Post by **Darth Hoth** » 2008-05-10 09:53am

Ghost Rider wrote:
Connor MacLeod wrote:Frankly I can't gather up any indignation for this shit now. I can only get amused as it gets more and more insane.
Indeed. At this point, you have the point, laugh and then read more interesting material. Maybe they'll do some good with the upcoming Clone Wars movie/TV shows, but the EU is becoming far too weirdly convulated.

Considering George Lucas will be deeply involved, I shan't be holding my breath...

However, even he shall have to outshine his usual egotism and abysmal prequel-era performance by quite a margin in order to even begin to approach the level that Traviss's wanktarded bile is playing on.

Darth Fanboy · Post by **Darth Fanboy** » 2008-05-10 11:01am

I'm a bit more optimistic about these shows though, because Lucas has said that he wants to depict large battles. Which is definitely along the lines of what i'd like to see.

Post by **NecronLord** » 2008-05-10 11:11am

Who wants to bet that the Mandos won't be just as important as the Jedi or Sith in either new G-canon show?

Mange · Post by **Mange** » 2008-05-10 11:26am

NecronLord wrote:Who wants to bet that the Mandos won't be just as important as the Jedi or Sith in either new G-canon show?

It's actually T-canon.

(And T-canon takes precedence over C-canon according to Chee +http://forums.starwars.com/thread.jspa? ... tart=01779 ) Seriously, I'd be surprised to see any elements of the Mando'Fando'Dando's in The Clone Wars. It's going to be interesting to see how Traviss' novelization of the movie is going to be like (if that rumor is correct).

FA Xerrik · Post by **FA Xerrik** » 2008-05-10 12:07pm

Mange wrote:It's going to be interesting to see how Traviss' novelization of the movie is going to be like (if that rumor is correct).

WHAT

Havok · Post by **Havok** » 2008-05-10 12:09pm

Mange wrote:
NecronLord wrote:Who wants to bet that the Mandos won't be just as important as the Jedi or Sith in either new G-canon show?
It's actually T-canon. (And T-canon takes precedence over C-canon according to Chee +http://forums.starwars.com/thread.jspa? ... tart=01779 ) Seriously, I'd be surprised to see any elements of the Mando'Fando'Dando's in The Clone Wars. It's going to be interesting to see how Traviss' novelization of the movie is going to be like (if that rumor is correct).

Why is it T-Canon and not G? Just because it isn't a movie? Isn't Lucas as involved with this as he was with say, TESB or ROTJ?

And Traviss doing the novelization of the movies isn't that big of a deal. If she starts going off on her crazy ass tangents, it's going to be so glaringly obvious that everyone is going to jump on her shit, not just the 12 of us.

Mange · Post by **Mange** » 2008-05-10 12:32pm

FA Xerrik wrote:
Mange wrote:It's going to be interesting to see how Traviss' novelization of the movie is going to be like (if that rumor is correct).
WHAT

It was speculated over at TFN a while back that an untitled Star Wars novel by Traviss spotted over at Amazon.com set for release on July 29 is the Clone Wars novelization. There's also speculation that an untitled Star Wars novel by Karen Traviss' friend, Karen Miller, which is set for release in November is a tie-in to the novelization. Sue Rostoni has so far refused to comment on this and referred to an upcoming announcement.

havokeff wrote:
Mange wrote:
NecronLord wrote:Who wants to bet that the Mandos won't be just as important as the Jedi or Sith in either new G-canon show?
It's actually T-canon. (And T-canon takes precedence over C-canon according to Chee +http://forums.starwars.com/thread.jspa? ... tart=01779 ) Seriously, I'd be surprised to see any elements of the Mando'Fando'Dando's in The Clone Wars. It's going to be interesting to see how Traviss' novelization of the movie is going to be like (if that rumor is correct).
Why is it T-Canon and not G? Just because it isn't a movie? Isn't Lucas as involved with this as he was with say, TESB or ROTJ?

No, I don't think his involvement is nowhere near the same degree as TESB and ROTJ (I don't think he has written any scripts for the CW movie or series), but otherwise I think you might be correct.

PainRack · Post by **PainRack** » 2008-05-10 01:23pm

Can we push the blame onto KJA for this? He was one of the first major authors to start writing up Boba as some kind of honourable hunter, in it for the thrill of the chase as oppposed to some criminal in it for the kicks.

Joe Momma · Post by **Joe Momma** » 2008-05-10 03:37pm

Imperial Overlord wrote:Most "honorable warrior races" are dicks. The samurai and European knights rarely had few inhibitions about brutally treating anyone not of their class. The difference between how the Mandalorians describe themselves and how they behave always struck me as one of the more realistic things about them. "Nuke the insolent hippy-peasants. Enslave the survivors. They are not worthy of our consideration. We will take our war cruisers and find better foes."

That part always worked for me too, especially the way other characters such as Carth openly called Ordo on it. It's just ridiculous to me that the Mando fans have drunk the kool-aid in accepting the Mandowank, particularly when other characters in the same story are pointing out the clear contradictions between the Mandalorian propaganda and their actions. Hell, recognizing that same thing was part of Ordo's character growth in the first KOTOR game.

Intellectually, I get that it's the same sort of idiot tribalism that is being discussed in the "general STv.SW" thread in currently running in that forum here. But trying to follow the logic train is still a headache, and IMO overwrites what could have been interesting characters (amoral, highly skilled guns for hire which could be used to add some additional flavor to the setting) in exchange for clowns fanwanked by idiots who wack off to "Soldier of Fortune" magazine.

Jim Raynor · Post by **Jim Raynor** » 2008-05-10 03:41pm

Anytime some idiot Mando Fando talks about Boba Fett (and by extension, the Mandalorians) being "honorable," please bring up the fact that he willingly took jobs from a mobster and sex slaver in the movies.

Joe Momma · Post by **Joe Momma** » 2008-05-10 03:46pm

PainRack wrote:Can we push the blame onto KJA for this? He was one of the first major authors to start writing up Boba as some kind of honourable hunter, in it for the thrill of the chase as oppposed to some criminal in it for the kicks.

Yeah, never mind that Boba was so about the payoff that he actually got in Darth Vader's face about the possibility of losing money if Solo was killed by the carbonite freeze. Not to mention if Fett had such a hard-on for the thrill of chasing the most dangerous game, why didn't he try to capture Solo himself instead of just tracking him and calling the Imps in? Fucking KJA.

Sidewinder · Post by **Sidewinder** » 2008-05-10 03:51pm

FA Xerrik wrote:
Mange wrote:It's going to be interesting to see how Traviss' novelization of the movie is going to be like (if that rumor is correct).
WHAT

I second that. Traviss' novelization will probably add many scenes of Mandalorians performing Special Operations behind enemy lines (i.e., explain why the fuck they didn't even get a cameo in the movie) and saving Anakin's life (despite the fact he PWNed Dirge, who PWNed wannabe Mandalorians, i.e., Clonetroopers, with ridiculous ease). Oh, and Anakin's female apprentice (whatever her name is) fucking a Mandalorian/Clonetrooper.

Post by **Ghost Rider** » 2008-05-10 03:52pm

Jim Raynor wrote:Anytime some idiot Mando Fando talks about Boba Fett (and by extension, the Mandalorians) being "honorable," please bring up the fact that he willingly took jobs from a mobster and sex slaver in the movies.

Fuck even that. He took job from motherfucking Darth Vader and had to be told to not disintergrate by said monster. Darth Vader told him he wanted a body, no some pile of ash.

Sorry, that speaks more of so called honor then even Jabba.

Anguirus · Post by **Anguirus** » 2008-05-10 09:52pm

Reply with quote
Can we push the blame onto KJA for this? He was one of the first major authors to start writing up Boba as some kind of honourable hunter, in it for the thrill of the chase as oppposed to some criminal in it for the kicks.

Well...one could argue that it was on his watch (the anthologies he edited) but he didn't write the annoying Fettwank stories (though at least the crazy ascetic part has pretty much been retconned to hell). On the other hand, he was directly responsible for ruining/wanking IG-88.

Was what's his name (Daniel something) the guy who started the real Fett nonsense? Dark Empire had none of it, Fett was still pretty much a scumbag and was defeated with relative ease.

QuentinGeorge · Post by **QuentinGeorge** » 2008-05-10 10:02pm

Daniel Keys Moran is the name you are thinking off - but he wrote Fett as an intelligent, amoral sociopath, and there was nothing about being some sort of Klingon in it.

Anguirus · Post by **Anguirus** » 2008-05-10 11:16pm

^ True he's no Traviss, but his Fett did have an annoying, preachy streak. Mind you, I don't think even Moran thought Fett was right, but it was stil jarring to hear Fett lecture Leia on morality.

K.W. Jeter is probably the intermediate step between Moran and Traviss. Jeter gave Fett a conscience (a good step and not overplayed IMO...yet) and made him Sir Pwns-A-Lot (but not against fucking Jedi and Sith).

Post by **RogueIce** » 2008-05-10 11:30pm

Anguirus wrote:K.W. Jeter is probably the intermediate step between Moran and Traviss. Jeter gave Fett a conscience (a good step and not overplayed IMO...yet) and made him Sir Pwns-A-Lot (but not against fucking Jedi and Sith).

He basically gave him "honor" in that if he took a job, he got it done. Period. Just about everything else was secondary. He would (and did) fuck over anyone who got in his way (even his own 'partners').

He did offer that partnership to Dengar and was looking after Neelah for whatever reason, but I think that was just payback for saving his life. Dengar was really the only partner he didn't betray in that book, though he did just about get him killed at the end because he was on his mission.

Connor MacLeod · Post by **Connor MacLeod** » 2008-05-11 12:08am

Thed whole "mando wanking" thing and the conflict between other authors (like Dark horse) probably just goes to show how political LFL has become. The Mando stuff seems to be just yet another "niche" market, really.

Oh, and Hoth... while Lucas is hardly a mastermind, but stop acting like a pompous twit. Traviss and her Mandalorian wanking is NOWHERE near as bad as psycho Darth Emo Skyawlker. I can at least rewatch the prequels and mostly enjoy them. All I can get from TRaviss' novels nowadays is some occasionally interesting technical tidbit. Nevermind her anti-Jedi sentiments, the massive intellectual and logical gaffes she makes (IE "A planet doesn't have enough materials to build manyy battle droids" from True Colors, for example) and her blatant disregard for the work of her fellow authors and works.

Besides which, its Lucas' fucking universe, which means he pretty much DOES have ultimate say. TRaviss is just someone allowed to play in the sandbox, so to speak. The two are quite different.

Connor MacLeod · Post by **Connor MacLeod** » 2008-05-11 12:18am

Anguirus wrote: K.W. Jeter is probably the intermediate step between Moran and Traviss. Jeter gave Fett a conscience (a good step and not overplayed IMO...yet) and made him Sir Pwns-A-Lot (but not against fucking Jedi and Sith).

I rather liked Jeter's Boba Fett. Yes, he "always won", but that was kind of part of the charm of the whole novel. And his "always winning" wasn't really affecting things on any large scale, it just affected him personally. After all, Boba Fett WAS supposed to be the BEST bounty hunter, so you naturally expect him to always win, that was part of the Pre-Traviss appeal.