Doctor Who SE30E06: The Doctor's Daughter [Spoilers]

[Minischoles]

Brand loyalty.

Ugh... Imagine this: The Doctor saves Jenny. Brings her on the TARDIS, they go off adventuring together. Unlike all his other past companions his relationship with Jenny is different. He not only loves her but starts teaching her. He finds his emotional release, a way to repair the horrific damage done to his psyche, by teaching her about Gallifrey, the TARDIS, Time and Space, the Sonic Screwdriver, etc. In short, teaching her to be a new Time Lady. Gallifrey and the Time Lords are gone due to his actions, but he can bring them back again. And then Rose comes back and the Doctor is given a choice, he can either save the woman he loves or the daughter and future of his race.

That'd be an interesting story. A compelling story. See the Doctor reborn, finally regenerating mentally as well as physically only to see him put through the wringer once more. Instead we get this bullcrap and the set up for a fourth spinoff series. (It is four, right? Not five I hope...)

This. Oh that would have made for an awesome series, but it'd be beyond most of the writing staff. They manage to produce some truly awesome episodes (Blink, Family of Blood/Human Nature etc) but for the most part its all like this.

Telegraphed ending, anyone who didn't see it coming from about the midway point is half blind, her death and ressurection was blindingly obvious. And the icing on the cake was the absolutely horrendous acting by Martha. Just terrible.

There were a few good points, one of them being Donna is becoming a better companion each week, i started this series a little sceptical because of the Christmas episode she was in, but each week she gets stronger and stronger (still not up to Rose, but far better than Martha)

[Stark]

To simplify: While individual (usually Renegade) Time Lords have been callous and cruel to lesser races (the Rani being the archetypical example), there's nothing to suggest it's a dominant trait of the culture, and certainly not that anyone raised (?) as a Time Lord by the Doctor would somehow pick it up. Most of them have the attitude of a lot of Westerners regarding wars in Africa, for instance "it's tragic, but we can't be expected to sort out all the world's problems" - and in the Time Lord's case, they actually tried it at first, but it turned into a disaster.

Given their tech base at the time, it's easy to see the Minyan Experiment as more a university project than a culture-wide attempt to uplift. They tried it on a small scale, results were bad, and they never tried it again because aside from curiosity there's zero pressure for them to do anything. From the descriptions it could literally have been one Time Lord doing it as a pet project (although it's more likely to be more, since I believe the Minyans were barely industrial).

I'd imagine any Time Lord raised by the Doctor would be pretty broken, though; neither as pro-active and aggressive as Jumpsuit Time Lords and without the bulwark of near-invincibility of the Silly Hat Time Lords... and a dose of massive arrogance and war guilt. Flash learning would probably yield better results than dropping babies at the VA. 'Mum, look, I got an A+ in 'Wistful Staring' but I need to do more research in 'Emotional Outbursts'!'

[NecronLord]

Given their tech base at the time, it's easy to see the Minyan Experiment as more a university project than a culture-wide attempt to uplift. They tried it on a small scale, results were bad, and they never tried it again because aside from curiosity there's zero pressure for them to do anything. From the descriptions it could literally have been one Time Lord doing it as a pet project (although it's more likely to be more, since I believe the Minyans were barely industrial).

Hey, would you trust the silly hat morons who got manipulated by the Sontarans in running an uplift programme? It'd all end in tears.

[Stark]

Maybe it was even a reactionary liberal uni professor, striking back at post-Rassilionian arrogance and isolation by improving the universe and doing what's 'right'. No Jumpsuit Time Lord 'slap a time loop on and call it a day' attitude for the students of tomorrow!

Oh wait, now I'm writing an EU novel. Argh!

[The Guid]

And let's not forget that what is worst about the Time Lords is the same as humanity its just that Time Lords have a far greater playground.

Imagine the most morally callous person you know, and give them the ability to take over a planet on a whim. Evil on the scale of the Master or the Rani, easily.

[Hillary]

As I watched this episode, I imagined Stark throwing heavier and heavier objects at the TV.

I enjoyed it myself. I have no defence to put up against any of the comments made. The defects are unarguably there, as you all say. I did, however, thoroughly enjoy it.

It amused me that the general in an intractable war that had raged for generations appeared to have a Northern Irish accent (accident or design?).

I thought Jenny was a great character and I'd like to see more of her (no pun intended, chaps). Nice to see Monkey Man from Skins getting more work too.

How fucking awful is Freema as an actress, though? Her cringe-worthy effort at crying was am-dram level.

[Lord Woodlouse]

As I watched this episode, I imagined Stark throwing heavier and heavier objects at the TV.

I enjoyed it myself. I have no defence to put up against any of the comments made. The defects are unarguably there, as you all say. I did, however, thoroughly enjoy it.

It amused me that the general in an intractable war that had raged for generations appeared to have a Northern Irish accent (accident or design?).

I thought Jenny was a great character and I'd like to see more of her (no pun intended, chaps). Nice to see Monkey Man from Skins getting more work too.

How fucking awful is Freema as an actress, though? Her cringe-worthy effort at crying was am-dram level.

That was a West Country accent, though it seemed to have caused some debate (Zaia thought it was American).

[Dartzap]

That was a West Country accent, though it seemed to have caused some debate (Zaia thought it was American).

....It was from down here? Coulda fooled me, sounded more Irish than anything.

He didn't even mention Ambrosia.....

[Lord Woodlouse]

That was a West Country accent, though it seemed to have caused some debate (Zaia thought it was American).

....It was from down here? Coulda fooled me, sounded more Irish than anything.

He didn't even mention Ambrosia.....

Bloke was born and bred in Bristol.

[Gandalf]

I was so very bored during much of this ep. It was as though something good was coming, but it never delivered.

If the war was so violent as to spawn so many generations within a week, where were the bodies?

When the Doctor was revealed to be very good material for cloning, why didn't they try to get more out of him right then?

[Alan Bolte]

Team deathmatch plotline + fanservice = suck. Yeah, the dialog was poor, the effects were poor (though the aliens were kinda cool), there were plot holes, but I could have forgiven those if the episode really went anywhere or did anything. The only way it could have been worse is if it really was a team deathmatch and they were fighting for some third group's amusement.

If we're going to do space stuff, at least steal some better plots, and preferably something new. Maybe hire a popular sci-fi author, that's worked before. Well, I take that back, they'd probably just end up with another hack. And the history stuff: let's get some variety. Everyone's familiar with Pompeii, adding aliens to it doesn't make it interesting. Why don't we hire someone with a history degree? Cover things we didn't learn in school? I suppose you have to throw in the aliens or something to have a reason for the doctor to be there, but aliens-in-a-different-setting isn't a plot.

Also, the companions need to shut up about how awesome the Doctor is and how they travel to such cool places. We know. We assume you explain this to new people between scene changes. Unless the new person has something interesting to say about it, just cut it out! You're wasting screen time.

[Alan Bolte]

Just had another thought: maybe the Doctor knew damn well she'd be fine, but knew his human companions wouldn't stomach leaving her behind alive. That she got shot was an opportunity to get rid of her. Frankly, it fits. The Doctor can be callous and manipulative like that.

[Johonebesus]

<de-lurk>

I thought it was obvious that she was saved by the teraforming gas. The stuff she breathes out is glowy-smoky in exactly the same was as the stuff in the previous scene.

The regeneration effects from him turning into the current doctor were completely different.

I don't know why everyone seems to reject this. The gas coming out of her mouth did look like the terraforming gas. Maybe the producers used the same basic effect for the "energy" from the TARDIS, but my first thought was the terraforming device. It didn't look like the effect they used the last two times we saw a regeneration. It would explain why he seemed so sure she wouldn't recover. It wasn't because she was Gallifreyan, but because of the terraforming gas.

I had hoped that the scene would answer the question as to whether regeneration is a natural ability or not, but I don't suppose it did. Perhaps that's why he wasn't certain she would regenerate; it isn't native to the Galifreyin species and she hadn't gone through whatever process would give her the ability. Whatever was done to him might have gotten passed along with his DNA, but might not have.

I still wish they would bring back Susan, if only for one episode. The Doctor did promise he would come back to check on her after all. I really want to know what happened to her if the Daleks were wiped from existence, which presumably means the Dalek occupation of Earth never happened. Plus it would be neat to see Time Lord family dynamics when a parent is physiologically younger than the offspring. At the very least they could give a bit of dialogue where he mentions a grand daughter who moved back to Gallifrey during the war.

In the American broadcast, immediately after the Doctor says, "too much like me" while holding her corpse, it went to commercial. When it came back the Doctor was standing and went to confront the general. Did they edit out a bit of dialogue that made the Doctor's statement less cryptic? What did he mean, "too much like him"?

[TimothyC]

In the American broadcast, immediately after the Doctor says, "too much like me" while holding her corpse, it went to commercial. When it came back the Doctor was standing and went to confront the general. Did they edit out a bit of dialogue that made the Doctor's statement less cryptic? What did he mean, "too much like him"?

The previous line was something like how while Jenny was like the doctor, she wasn't like him enough to regenerate. The Doctor responded that she was to much like him in that she died to save another's life (as far as she knew).

As for the episode in general - I actually liked it. Probably a 3.5/5.

[Johonebesus]

In the American broadcast, immediately after the Doctor says, "too much like me" while holding her corpse, it went to commercial. When it came back the Doctor was standing and went to confront the general. Did they edit out a bit of dialogue that made the Doctor's statement less cryptic? What did he mean, "too much like him"?

The previous line was something like how while Jenny was like the doctor, she wasn't like him enough to regenerate. The Doctor responded that she was to much like him in that she died to save another's life (as far as she knew).

As for the episode in general - I actually liked it. Probably a 3.5/5.

Yes I know, I was asking if there was more dialogue after that explaining what he meant. Otherwise that the similarity was the self sacrifice is an assumption and doesn't make much sense, since it didn't address the question of why she failed to regenerate. Maybe that was the intent, but if so it wasn't very good writing.

[Srynerson]

I had hoped that the scene would answer the question as to whether regeneration is a natural ability or not, but I don't suppose it did. Perhaps that's why he wasn't certain she would regenerate; it isn't native to the Galifreyin species and she hadn't gone through whatever process would give her the ability. Whatever was done to him might have gotten passed along with his DNA, but might not have.

Regeneration presumably isn't a "natural" ability in the sense of all Gallifreyans being automatically capable of doing it. In the original series there were several occasions that the Doctor was recalled to Gallifrey during which we saw non-Time Lord Gallifreyans killed and there was no indication that those individuals regenerated. It was also established in "The Five Doctors" story arc that the Time Lords had the ability to (somehow) grant additional regenerations.