IG-88 vs Master Chief

[Ghost Rider]

Game have canon but really only in cutscenes(which is even how TIE/X-Wing material comes about as well as the mini novels in the hint guide) and no direct player influence, mostly because like the Samus debate pointed...a lowly squrimy can kill her, but Lava is somehow circumvented completely by her Varia armor.

Same could be said of a great deal in Prime...plus they provide virtual nil in anything quantifiable...I mean I punch at a rock all I want and zilch.

[Kuja]

Game have canon but really only in cutscenes(which is even how TIE/X-Wing material comes about as well as the mini novels in the hint guide) and no direct player influence, mostly because like the Samus debate pointed...a lowly squrimy can kill her, but Lava is somehow circumvented completely by her Varia armor.

Same could be said of a great deal in Prime...plus they provide virtual nil in anything quantifiable...I mean I punch at a rock all I want and zilch.

To clear it up:

Game MATERIAL (story, names, etc) is canon.

Game MECHANICS (the actual gameplay) is NOT canon.

[Admiral Valdemar]

Game have canon but really only in cutscenes(which is even how TIE/X-Wing material comes about as well as the mini novels in the hint guide) and no direct player influence, mostly because like the Samus debate pointed...a lowly squrimy can kill her, but Lava is somehow circumvented completely by her Varia armor.

Same could be said of a great deal in Prime...plus they provide virtual nil in anything quantifiable...I mean I punch at a rock all I want and zilch.

That point did occur to me, but what would your stance be if the novels for either side were non-existent? Would we just have to rationalise things as best we could? I'm still trying to find some more hard info on MC's side to get a real debate going.

[Ghost Rider]

When it comes down to taht it becomes impossible because seriously we have nothing to base it on since game mechanics are all we would have.

Essentially it would being trying to finagle how the hell Samus/Mega Man/Alucard can unleash apparently a huge swath of death(near KT worth of whatever convient energy) and all the surrounding materials do is sit there as if a slight breeze passed them by.

[Kuja]

That point did occur to me, but what would your stance be if the novels for either side were non-existent? Would we just have to rationalise things as best we could? I'm still trying to find some more hard info on MC's side to get a real debate going.

It would be impossible unless there was a 1st person shooter starring IG-88.

[Admiral Valdemar]

That point did occur to me, but what would your stance be if the novels for either side were non-existent? Would we just have to rationalise things as best we could? I'm still trying to find some more hard info on MC's side to get a real debate going.

It would be impossible unless there was a 1st person shooter starring IG-88.

Wasn't he in Masters of Teras Kasi (sp?)?

[Kuja]

It would be impossible unless there was a 1st person shooter starring IG-88.

Wasn't he in Masters of Teras Kasi (sp?)?

Was he? *shrug*

And anyway, that's a fighting game.

[Ghost Rider]

Wasn't he in Masters of Teras Kasi (sp?)?

LOL...actually nope...but Boba Fett was(and Darth Vader...who for some reason could unleash Force Lighting if I remember correctly...I know he had Force Choke)

[Sir Sirius]

Against aliens - Blaster rifle and sniper rifle.

Against Flood - Blaster rifle and combat shotgun.

The shotgun and the sniper rifle are slug throwers, meaning that they produce recoil. MC doesn't get knocked on his back everytime he fires either of them, so the KE of their rounds/buckshots isn't that great.
Which is a more powerfull weapon in the game, the sniper rifle or the blaster rifle?

Wasn't he in Masters of Teras Kasi (sp?)?

Masters of Teräs Käsi.
BTW "Teräs Käsi" is Finnish for "Steel Hand".

[Ghost Rider]

Huh...cool, so there was a meaning behind that name.

Learn something new everyday

[BlkbrryTheGreat]

This is the information we have on Master Chief from the "Fall of Reach" Novel.


Chapter 8.

This was the last traing excercise the Spartans went through before going into combat.

The training excercise was capture the flag. Master Chief and several of his fellow Spartans, who were unarmed and covered in black body suits, faced off against 9 marines in Mark I power armor who were guarding the red flag.

The Mark I armor was described as follows.

"The Trainers in those exoskeletons can run at thiry-two KPH, lift two tons, and have a thirty-millimeter minigun mounted on self-targeting armatures- stun rounds, of course. They're also equipped with the latest motion sensors and IR scopes. And needless to say, their armor is impervious to standard light weapons. It would take two or three platoons of conventional Marines to take that bunker."

The results were as follows:

"The trainers turned and fired at the shadow, but it moved with almost supernatural quickness. Even the self-targeting systems couldn't track it.
From above, a man free-rappeled down from the girders and gantries overhead. The newcomer landed behind one of the perimeter guards, quiet as a cat. He punched the guard's armor twice, denting the heavy plates, then dropped low and swept the target's legs from under him. The guard sprawled on the ground.....
Two more Apartans, dangling from the other end of that rope, dropped unnoticed into the center of the bunker. Dr. Halsey immediately recognized one of t hem, although he was dressed entirely in black, save his open eye slits- Number 117. John. (Master Chief)
John landed, braced, a nd kicked one guard. The man landed in a heap... eight meters away......
On top of the bunker, John was a blut of slashing motions. A second guard's exosuit erupted in a fountain of hydraulic fluid and then collapsed under the armor's weight.
The last guard on the bunker turned to fire at John. Halsey gripped the edge of her chair. "He's at point blank range! Even stun rounds can kill at that distance!"
As the guard's gun fired, John sidestepped. The stun rounds slashed throught the air, a clean miss. John grabbed the weapon's armature -- twisted- and with a screech of stressed metal, wrenched it free of the exoskeleton. "

In terms of facts listed in the book, unaided, the Spartans:

1. Can run at 55 KPH (but will only get quicker as they adjust to the 'alterations' made to their body)

2. Can lift 3 times their body weight.

3. Can see virtually in the dark.

4. Have a reaction time of twenty milliseconds....... significantly faster in combat situations.

5. Have metal and ceramic layers bonded to their bones.

6. Have increased memory, intellegence, and creativity.

The following useful information was given, in chapter 13, for the protype MJOLNIR armor used by the Spartans.

1. Coating which disperses incoming energy attacks.

2. Armor doubles users strength

3. Reaction Speed increased by a factor of 5.

The actual MJOLNIR armor used by Master Chief was different from and signifigantly superior to the protype.

"This is the real MJOLNIR," Dr. Halsey wispered to h im. "what you have been using was only a fraction of what the armor should be. "This--" She turned to the Master Chief. "- is everything I had always dreamed it could be. Please put the suit on."

In terms of listed improvements the new armor had a shield and an upgrade to allow the AI, Cortana, to interface with MC and the suit simutaneously...... futher improving his reaction time.

[Kuja]

In terms of facts listed in the book, unaided, the Spartans:

1. Can run at 55 KPH (but will only get quicker as they adjust to the 'alterations' made to their body)

I'll say again: running in a line is not the same as hth combat.

2. Can lift 3 times their body weight.

If they are the size of the average human, that means they can lift ~600 pounds. I'm not impressed.

3. Can see virtually in the dark.

IG can see in the visible spectrum, infrared, nightvision, and other wavelengths simultaneously.

4. Have a reaction time of twenty milliseconds....... significantly faster in combat situations.

Not bad. But can they kill ten humans in the span of several seconds, with NO weapons, immediately after being 'woken up'?

5. Have metal and ceramic layers bonded to their bones.

Not gonna help much if a vibroblade gets stuck between their ribs.

6. Have increased memory, intellegence, and creativity.

Not that this has anything to do with the fight, but come on. IG is a walking database. He designed the IG-2001, he came up with the idea of downloading himself into the DS main comp. He remembers everything he's ever seen and heard.

The following useful information was given, in chapter 13, for the protype MJOLNIR armor used by the Spartans.

1. Coating which disperses incoming energy attacks.

Disperses? Care to clarify that?

2. Armor doubles users strength

So now they can life ~1200 pounds. I'm still not impressed.

3. Reaction Speed increased by a factor of 5.

Now we're approaching Jedi-style reflexes.

The actual MJOLNIR armor used by Master Chief was different from and signifigantly superior to the protype.

In terms of listed improvements the new armor had a shield and an upgrade to allow the AI, Cortana, to interface with MC and the suit simutaneously...... futher improving his reaction time.

So basically, the MC is a Jedi with a suit of high-tech armor. Wheeeee.

[DocMoriartty]

Bullshit. What's canon: X-wing the game, or X-wing the book series?

X-Wings existed long before the game came along. The same cannot be said of the Master Chief.

Wrongo.

Xwing book 1, Rogue Squadron:

Acknowledgements from the author:

...Lawrence Holland and Edwards Killham for the X-wing and TIE Fighter
computer games...

Mike Stackpole references the games in his thanks. OBVIOUSLY, they came first. They are NOT canon.

Are you just fucking stupid? X-Wings have been around since Star War you jackass.

Tell me what novel came out before the movie came out in 1976 you fucking dipshit?

[Kuja]

Are you just fucking stupid? X-Wings have been around since Star War you jackass.

Tell me what novel came out before the movie came out in 1976 you fucking dipshit?

That's not the comparison I'm making, you fucking lamebrain!

Halo the game came out before Halo the book.

X-wing the game came out before X-wing the book series.

You made the claim that the game is canon because it comes first. I'm telling you that your claim is BULLSHIT, and I'm using this comparison to make it. Games cannot possibly be canon because everything is skewed to the player's advantage. X-wing THE GAME is not referenced in the SW history. X-wing THE NOVELS are. Get it, you fucking dipshit?

[Admiral Valdemar]

Woah, calm the fuck down!

Geez, can't anybody debate FICTIONAL universes without having a brainhaemorrhage over it and swearing to kill someone?!

Gentlemen, please show you are so on BOTH sides by showing a bit of tact. If you can't argue this without insulting then you're no better than Fundie Creationists plugging their fingers in their ears and I KNOW you are better than that.

So please, a little more civil?

[The Dark]

*Ahem* Just to answer Doc's question, the novel Star Wars: From The Adventures of Luke Skywalker was written in 1976, one year before the release of a New Hope in 1977. Eight other novels were written before Return of the Jedi was released, making one novel pre-movies and nine total during the run of the movies.

[DocMoriartty]

Are you just fucking stupid? X-Wings have been around since Star War you jackass.

Tell me what novel came out before the movie came out in 1976 you fucking dipshit?

That's not the comparison I'm making, you fucking lamebrain!

Halo the game came out before Halo the book.

X-wing the game came out before X-wing the book series.

You made the claim that the game is canon because it comes first. I'm telling you that your claim is BULLSHIT, and I'm using this comparison to make it. Games cannot possibly be canon because everything is skewed to the player's advantage. X-wing THE GAME is not referenced in the SW history. X-wing THE NOVELS are. Get it, you fucking dipshit?

Hey dickbrain. I was the one who said that X-Wings were around before the books. This whole arguement came around from MY STATEMENT.

SO I don't give a flying fuck what you were saying because I started this point. I cannot help it if simple English is too fucking complicated for you.

I made my statements before you came along. I made my comparisons based on the game Halo which came out before the book. If you do not want to debate based on that then go take your little dick and go elsewhere. If you want to debate MY statements then you debate them on MY rules. Only a complete fucking moron like you would think anyone would be interested in getting their statement challenged by you while having the rules changed by you to suit your fucking needs.

If you can argue per the statement I made (you replied to me you play by my rules) then go for it.

Otherwise

Get bent dipshit.

[Stormbringer]

If this so called uber-droid can get taken down by Bobe Fett I see no reason that the Master Cheif couldn't take him down. For all IG's uber gear he still got killed, alot.

[Sir Sirius]

DocMoriartty lost the arqument and is now resorting to personal insults...how very Darkstar of him.

BTW 'Doc' you've yet to prove that MC has a single weapon apart from his nuke cabable of harming IG-88.

[Kuja]

Hey dickbrain. I was the one who said that X-Wings were around before the books. This whole arguement came around from MY STATEMENT.

SO I don't give a flying fuck what you were saying because I started this point. I cannot help it if simple English is too fucking complicated for you.

Do you enjoy talking to the voice in your head, shitforbrains? This argument isn't about the fucking X-wings, it's about LEVELS OF CANONICITY! Is your brain really so tiny as you can't grasp this concept?

I made my statements before you came along. I made my comparisons based on the game Halo which came out before the book. If you do not want to debate based on that then go take your little dick and go elsewhere. If you want to debate MY statements then you debate them on MY rules. Only a complete fucking moron like you would think anyone would be interested in getting their statement challenged by you while having the rules changed by you to suit your fucking needs.

This is interesting. You set the rules for every debate? Fuck you, and the horse you rode in on, pukebrain. There are RULES governing canonicity that say novel>game, and you are sidestepping them for your own advantage. In short, fuck off.

If you can argue per the statement I made (you replied to me you play by my rules) then go for it.

Otherwise

Get bent dipshit.

Bend yourself, shithead. On second thougt, maybe UNbending yourself would be a better idea.

[Stormbringer]

Knock it of with the flames immediately!

[Kuja]

If this so called uber-droid can get taken down by Bobe Fett I see no reason that the Master Cheif couldn't take him down. For all IG's uber gear he still got killed, alot.

Boba Fett won because

1. he had SW level tech.

2. he had probably dealt with assassin droid before, and knew how to deal with them.

2a. took advantage of creativity over set programming.

Boba Fett also took advantage of certain circustances, circumstances the MC won't get. Fett knew about IG-88 before their confrontation, so he anticipated him. MC is simply being thrown into the fight, with NO learnig, and NO background. IOW, every advantage Fett had has been taken away, and not even Fett bested IG-88 in a straight up fight.

[Stormbringer]

If this so called uber-droid can get taken down by Bobe Fett I see no reason that the Master Cheif couldn't take him down. For all IG's uber gear he still got killed, alot.

Boba Fett won because

1. he had SW level tech.

While that's impressive it wasn't a straight up blasting match so sheer firepower levels aren't as important.

2. he had probably dealt with assassin droid before, and knew how to deal with them.

A point in his favor but it doesn't seem to have made much of a difference is his strategy.

2a. took advantage of creativity over set programming.

And the Master Cheif couldn't do that?

Boba Fett also took advantage of certain circustances, circumstances the MC won't get. Fett knew about IG-88 before their confrontation, so he anticipated him. MC is simply being thrown into the fight, with NO learnig, and NO background. IOW, every advantage Fett had has been taken away, and not even Fett bested IG-88 in a straight up fight.

You're assuming the Master Cheif would be completely ignorant and walk straight into a OK Corral Style shoot out. That doesn't necessarily follow. The Master Cheif is plenty capable of pulling off a few tricks to kill IG's. Fett didn't exactly use brilliant and innovvative techinques just was smart enough to avoid a direct confrontation.

[Kuja]

Boba Fett won because

1. he had SW level tech.

While that's impressive it wasn't a straight up blasting match so sheer firepower levels aren't as important.

This is true, however, my point is that in Match 1, Boba Fett had an Ion cannon. There seems to be no equivalent in Halo, or the good Doc would have loudly pointed it out. thus, a MAJOR advantage is removed.

2. he had probably dealt with assassin droid before, and knew how to deal with them.

A point in his favor but it doesn't seem to have made much of a difference is his strategy.

No? He hit IG with four mounted Ion cannons, then shot him again with a handheld one to make sure he was down. Note that he used Ion cannons instead of laser cannons. In the story, it was noted time and again that IG's armor is blaster-proof. Considering that the two had met before, it isn't too hard to conclude that Fett based his stategy around what he knew of the droid.

2a. took advantage of creativity over set programming.

And the Master Cheif couldn't do that?

Will IG give him the time to? They are being dropped into the situation, and for some reason want to kill each other. There's no reason for IG to wait around and let the MC think up a stategy. And considering that the two know NOTHING about each other, stategy probably isn't the smart way to go, for either of them.

Boba Fett also took advantage of certain circustances, circumstances the MC won't get. Fett knew about IG-88 before their confrontation, so he anticipated him. MC is simply being thrown into the fight, with NO learnig, and NO background. IOW, every advantage Fett had has been taken away, and not even Fett bested IG-88 in a straight up fight.

You're assuming the Master Cheif would be completely ignorantand walk straight into a OK Corral Style shoot out. That doesn't necessarily follow. The Master Cheif is plenty capable of pulling off a few tricks to kill IG's. Fett didn't exactly use brilliant and innovvative techinques just was smart enough to avoid a direct confrontation.

Nothing in the original post suggests otherwise.

[Stormbringer]

Boba Fett won because

1. he had SW level tech.

While that's impressive it wasn't a straight up blasting match so sheer firepower levels aren't as important.

This is true, however, my point is that in Match 1, Boba Fett had an Ion cannon. There seems to be no equivalent in Halo, or the good Doc would have loudly pointed it out. thus, a MAJOR advantage is removed.

That's true. But that nuke will take him down easly enough. And if he's smart he can sucker the droid same as Fett.

2. he had probably dealt with assassin droid before, and knew how to deal with them.

A point in his favor but it doesn't seem to have made much of a difference is his strategy.

No? He hit IG with four mounted Ion cannons, then shot him again with a handheld one to make sure he was down. Note that he used Ion cannons instead of laser cannons. In the story, it was noted time and again that IG's armor is blaster-proof. Considering that the two had met before, it isn't too hard to conclude that Fett based his stategy around what he knew of the droid.

Or simply the fact that he's a droid. It's a smart move but not some stroke of genius.

And IG isn't immune to any blaster, that's a rideuclous idea. Some of the bigger blasters would probably take him down.

2a. took advantage of creativity over set programming.

And the Master Cheif couldn't do that?

Will IG give him the time to? They are being dropped into the situation, and for some reason want to kill each other. There's no reason for IG to wait around and let the MC think up a stategy. And considering that the two know NOTHING about each other, stategy probably isn't the smart way to go, for either of them.

Except for the fight before the Emperor you seem to assume IG and MC will start at arms length from each other. Dumb idea.

In those cases the Master Cheif would have ample time and ability to evade IG long enough to think and plan an ambush.

Boba Fett also took advantage of certain circustances, circumstances the MC won't get. Fett knew about IG-88 before their confrontation, so he anticipated him. MC is simply being thrown into the fight, with NO learnig, and NO background. IOW, every advantage Fett had has been taken away, and not even Fett bested IG-88 in a straight up fight.

You're assuming the Master Cheif would be completely ignorantand walk straight into a OK Corral Style shoot out. That doesn't necessarily follow. The Master Cheif is plenty capable of pulling off a few tricks to kill IG's. Fett didn't exactly use brilliant and innovvative techinques just was smart enough to avoid a direct confrontation.

Nothing in the original post suggests otherwise.

It's generally assumed that both sides have intel on the other unless otherwise stated. Not necessarily all the intel but a rough idea of it.

And nothing says that the Master Cheif would be so dumb as to simply wade into a fire fight anyways. He's smart enough to take the time to scope out IG when he can.