Latest dumbshit creationist (May 9, 2008)

[Finagle]

I have heard it claimed - with a straight face and absolute sincerity - that Shaitan put those fossils there, in order to deceive and confuse us and distract us from the literal truth of the Bible.

Ooooookaaaay.... That's, um, sure. Kinda hard to argue with that. How can you prove something to somebody whose mind is simply closed to any sort of proof, and who will invent conspiracies rather than just accept the simplest solution.

[Kanastrous]

I have heard it claimed - with a straight face and absolute sincerity - that Shaitan put those fossils there, in order to deceive and confuse us and distract us from the literal truth of the Bible.

Ooooookaaaay.... That's, um, sure. Kinda hard to argue with that. How can you prove something to somebody whose mind is simply closed to any sort of proof, and who will invent conspiracies rather than just accept the simplest solution.

I suspect that from their perspective, "Shaitan did it" *is* a simpler solution, than what can be derived from the physical evidence.

[General Zod]

I suspect that from their perspective, "Shaitan did it" *is* a simpler solution, than what can be derived from the physical evidence.

The problem is most creationist fuckwits use "simplest" in the sense of "it means I don't have to think about it" as opposed to the way most intelligent people use it, meaning "explanation with the fewest variables".

[Kanastrous]

I suspect that from their perspective, "Shaitan did it" *is* a simpler solution, than what can be derived from the physical evidence.

The problem is most creationist fuckwits use "simplest" in the sense of "it means I don't have to think about it" as opposed to the way most intelligent people use it, meaning "explanation with the fewest variables".

"God did everything" seems to include only one variable.

[CaptJodan]

Yeah, I've heard that line several times myself. Equally valid for use against:

1. The age of the Earth. Satan's work inflates scientists' numbers
2. The fact that there are no fossils of 10 foot people that lived 800 years. He's such a body snatcher.
3. Lack of global flood evidence.

And much much more.

[Ted C]

I have heard it claimed - with a straight face and absolute sincerity - that Shaitan put those fossils there, in order to deceive and confuse us and distract us from the literal truth of the Bible.

And what does it say about God that he just let Satan do that?

[The Spartan]

I have heard it claimed - with a straight face and absolute sincerity - that Shaitan put those fossils there, in order to deceive and confuse us and distract us from the literal truth of the Bible.

And what does it say about God that he just let Satan do that?

Ask Job.

[Kanastrous]

I have heard it claimed - with a straight face and absolute sincerity - that Shaitan put those fossils there, in order to deceive and confuse us and distract us from the literal truth of the Bible.

And what does it say about God that he just let Satan do that?

*shrug* look at what God let Shaitan do to poor ol' Job.

They apparently have some kind of understanding.

[General Zod]

"God did everything" seems to include only one variable.

That's the whole "not thinking about it" part again. Substitute "God" with "invisible pink unicorn" and suddenly it's not so simple.

[Aquatain]

I suspect that from their perspective, "Shaitan did it" *is* a simpler solution, than what can be derived from the physical evidence.

The problem is most creationist fuckwits use "simplest" in the sense of "it means I don't have to think about it" as opposed to the way most intelligent people use it, meaning "explanation with the fewest variables".

"God did everything" seems to include only one variable.

Heh reminds me a talk i had with a religious friend, hes not obsessive about it and we have had many fun argument about faith.

Him : God Is Omnipotent!
Me : Why would he create all this then(meaning the world/universe)?
Him:What?
Me: If God is truly omnipotent there would be no need to create anything - he would know how everything would happen, draw anything to it's final conclusion without having to create it.
Him: This is why he introduced free will, so he would not know how we would end up.
Me: So he is not Omnipotent?
Him: yes yes he is..he just ..hmm fuck that cheers!

[Darth Servo]

How do such people explain the fossils that were found before Darwin came up with his theory?

They simply deny their existence. I've seen so many creationist morons desperately trying to re-write history. They do it with the "evolution = immorality" bullshit all the time where they blame Darwin and evolution for racism, the holocaust, slavery, communism and every other social ill that has plagued mankind. In spite of the historical fact that those problems all predate the publication of Origin of Species

Yes, I know the holocaust came after Darwin published but the underlying factors behind it, including attempted genocide were here long before.

[Catman]

Sometimes I'm amazed by Darth Wong's generosity in trying to improve people's grasp of the basics.

I'm not kidding.

Well, he IS patient...

...And rather descriptive, so there IS s chance.

[Darth Servo]

Great satire of creationist bullshit:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=user&v=sCy48nOwi6g

[Aquatain]

How do such people explain the fossils that were found before Darwin came up with his theory?

They simply deny their existence. I've seen so many creationist morons desperately trying to re-write history. They do it with the "evolution = immorality" bullshit all the time where they blame Darwin and evolution for racism, the holocaust, slavery, communism and every other social ill that has plagued mankind. In spite of the historical fact that those problems all predate the publication of Origin of Species

Yes, I know the holocaust came after Darwin published but the underlying factors behind it, including attempted genocide were here long before.

Speaking of the holocaust many creationists and many of today's Church leaders and faithful Christians have camouflaged the Christianity of Adolf Hitler and have attempted to mark him an atheist, a pagan cult worshipper, or a false Christian. However, from the earliest formation of the Nazi party and throughout the period of conquest and growth, Hitler expressed his Christian support to the German citizenry and soldiers.

But of cause Darwin is the great evil..

[Kanastrous]

However, from the earliest formation of the Nazi party and throughout the period of conquest and growth, Hitler expressed his Christian support to the German citizenry and soldiers.

I think that was PR.

The Nazis - particularly Himmler - were big on developing new rituals and ceremonies (ie SS wedding ceremonies) intended to supplant Christian practices.

At least in the translations I've read, Hitler refers to "Divine Providence," rather than "God," most of the time. I think there was an actual distinction being made, there, between "God" as most of his contemporaries would have interpreted the word, and the "Divine Providence" that was some sort of conscious weed-out-the-weak-and-promote-the-strong entity preoccupied with the spread of Germans across the face of the Earth.

[Kanastrous]

ghetto edit - not to discount the fertile groundwork laid for Nazism by Christian and German Christian thinkers, particularly Martin Luther, whom the Nazis were fond of accurately quoting.

[Aquatain]

However, from the earliest formation of the Nazi party and throughout the period of conquest and growth, Hitler expressed his Christian support to the German citizenry and soldiers.

I think that was PR.

The Nazis - particularly Himmler - were big on developing new rituals and ceremonies (ie SS wedding ceremonies) intended to supplant Christian practices.

At least in the translations I've read, Hitler refers to "Divine Providence," rather than "God," most of the time. I think there was an actual distinction being made, there, between "God" as most of his contemporaries would have interpreted the word, and the "Divine Providence" that was some sort of conscious weed-out-the-weak-and-promote-the-strong entity preoccupied with the spread of Germans across the face of the Earth.

My feelings as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a fighter. It points me to the man who once in loneliness, surrounded only by a few followers, recognized these Jews for what they were and summoned men to fight against them and who, God's truth! was greatest not as a sufferer but as a fighter. In boundless love as a Christian and as a man I read through the passage which tells us how the Lord at last rose in His might and seized the scourge to drive out of the Temple the brood of vipers and adders. How terrific was His fight for the world against the Jewish poison. To-day, after two thousand years, with deepest emotion I recognize more profoundly than ever before in the fact that it was for this that He had to shed His blood upon the Cross. As a Christian I have no duty to allow myself to be cheated, but I have the duty to be a fighter for truth and justice.... And if there is anything which could demonstrate that we are acting rightly it is the distress that daily grows. For as a Christian I have also a duty to my own people.... When I go out in the morning and see these men standing in their queues and look into their pinched faces, then I believe I would be no Christian, but a very devil if I felt no pity for them, if I did not, as did our Lord two thousand years ago, turn against those by whom to-day this poor people is plundered and exploited.
-Adolf Hitler, in his speech in Munich on 12 April 1922

[Kanastrous]

That impresses me as PR, for public consumption. Especially considering the forum in which it was originally delivered.

The man was a professional liar; I'm reluctant to assume that much of anything he had to say publicly, is a very reliable indicator of his private opinion, as much as manipulation of his audience - which was admittedly, in the main, delighted to be objects of manipulation.

[Darth Wong]

That impresses me as PR, for public consumption. Especially considering the forum in which it was originally delivered.

The man was a professional liar; I'm reluctant to assume that much of anything he had to say publicly, is a very reliable indicator of his private opinion, as much as manipulation of his audience - which was admittedly, in the main, delighted to be objects of manipulation.

Didn't you ever read Mein Kampf, for fuck's sake? The Nazis were absolutely Christian. The fact that their particular variant of Christianity differed from someone else's variant doesn't mean a goddamned thing.

[Superman]

Hitler very much believed that he had be chosen by God. I have pages full of quotes from Mein Kampf and from his own public speeches where he professes his faith loudly. I could post them if anyone wants it.

It's hard to call someone an atheist when they say things like, "Man cannot exist without belief in God."

[Aquatain]

Although Hitler did not practice religion in a churchly sense, he certainly believed in the Bible's God. Raised as Catholic he went to a monastery school and, interestingly, walked everyday past a stone arch which was carved the monastery's coat of arms which included a swastika. As a young boy, Hitler's most ardent goal was to become a priest. Much of his philosophy came from the Bible, and more influentially, from the Christian Social movement. (The German Christian Social movement, remarkably, resembles the Christian Right movement in America today.) Many have questioned Hitler's stand on Christianity. Although he fought against certain Catholic priests who opposed him for political reasons, his belief in God and country never left him. Many Christians throughout history have opposed Christian priests for various reasons; this does not necessarily make one against one's own Christian beliefs. Nor did the Vatican's Pope & bishops ever disown him; in fact they blessed him!

Hitler's anti-Semitism grew out of his Christian education. Christian Austria and Germany in his time took for granted the belief that Jews held an inferior status to Aryan Christians. Jewish hatred did not spring from Hitler, it came from the preaching of Catholic priests and Protestant ministers throughout Germany for hundreds of years. The Protestant leader, Martin Luther, himself, held a livid hatred for Jews and their Jewish religion. In his book, "On the Jews and their Lies," Luther set the standard for Jewish hatred in Protestant Germany up until World War II. Hitler expressed a great admiration for Martin Luther.

Hitler did not have to parade his belief in God, as so many American Christians do now. Nor did he have to justify his Godly belief against an Atheist movement. He took his beliefs for granted just as most Germans did at that time. His thrust aimed at politics, not religion. But through his political and religious reasoning he established in 1933, a German Reich Christian Church, uniting the Protestant churches to instill faith in a national German Christianity.

Future generations should remember that Adolph Hitler could not have come into power without the support of the Protestant and Catholic churches and the German Christian populace.

The following quotes provides some of Hitler's expressions of his belief in religion, faith, fanaticism, Providence, and even a few of his paraphrasing of the Bible. It by no means represents the totality of Hitler's concerns. To realize the full context of these quotes, I implore the reader to study Mein Kampf.

http://www.nobeliefs.com/hitler.htm

[Superman]

Hit "send" too soon, but I think it's obvious as to what I meant in that first part.

[Kanastrous]

Didn't you ever read Mein Kampf, for fuck's sake?

Yes. Slogged through it several times.

The Nazis were absolutely Christian. The fact that their particular variant of Christianity differed from someone else's variant doesn't mean a goddamned thing.

I think they used the Christian conditioning of the German public to their own ends, which had very little to do with advancing the cause of Christianity, and everything to do with the expansion of Nazism. Hitler and Himmler were well-known for interest in the occult, and the 'revival' of old Teutonic practices and belief, although Hitler also scoffed at Himmler's mysticism (that crack about Himmler wanting to bring in a bunch of his own superstition, to replace Catholic superstition; "Some day I might be an SS saint!").

It reflects poorly upon Christianity, to the degree that Christian conditioning turned out to be oh-so-useful to a movement like Nazism.

If that's the threshold for describing a movement as "Christian," okay.

[Superman]

Hitler and Himmler were well-known for interest in the occult

Prove it.

[Kanastrous]

Hitler very much believed that he had be chosen by God. I have pages full of quotes from Mein Kampf and from his own public speeches where he professes his faith loudly. I could post them if anyone wants it.

It's hard to call someone an atheist when they say things like, "Man cannot exist without belief in God."

I'm not disputing his belief in some kind of god. I'm just not convinced that he was interested in serving the Christian god.

After having seen the deluge of quotes, I'm not disputing that he mentioned the bible, mentioned the Christian god, made use of Christianity where it was useful, and was certainly influenced into his anti-semitism by Christian traditions in Germany.

Oh, fuck it.

Fine, he was Christian and Nazism was a Christian movement.

Never mind.