warhammer 40k question

[dragon]

I picked up Scourge the Heretic and had a couple of questions. Why is it that in some case they have decent electronics such as the data slates but alot of the equipment uses vacuum tubs?
Also are the machine spirits that they refereed to real?
Lastly whats the next book as the ending left me hanging for more.

[18-Till-I-Die]

Their technology is a mishmash of stuff they remember, and stuff that's left over from a more advanced previous civilization. In effect they're a lot like the Covenant but without any alien Forerunners, just human ones. Moreso they care more about having technology they can rely on to work under any circumstances then the most fancy, shiny shit. A far more practical view than today, in some ways.

The Machine Spirits are a funny enigma. Some are real, tangible spirits like ancient cultures' wood sprites and such (usually Chaos though), some are actually advanced AI technology, and some is...more complicated. There most certainly are a goodly number of very real Machine Spirits, and some are just fancy machines.

[dragon]

Interesting. What is the second book in the dark heresy series and is it out yet and any good?

[Pulp Hero]

RE: Machine spirits.

In things like computers there may be advanced AIs or remnents of AIs, but in everyday machinery, its just some mumbo-jumbo 40k humans believe. (Played for laughs in the Caiaphias Cain books, where a Colonel is apparently very devote because he can kick things to make the m work.)

[Brother-Captain Gaius]

"Machine spirit" is a catch-call term for whatever makes any mechanical or electronic device work. It is not "real" in the sense of it being an actual ghost inside of a machine, but it is "real" in the same way as the magic that makes an iron horse move along railroad tracks. It is the product of a by-rote approach to understanding technology:

To coax the machine-spirit of your computer (cogitator) into life, you must first perform the rituals of activation. Intoning the proper hymns of devotion to the Omnissiah, depress the activation rune upon the cogitator's blessed frame. You must now wait a moment for the machine spirit to rouse itself; do not hurry it lest you incite its anger. When it has awakened, input the correct rune sequence into its interface (your password) and the machine spirit will reveal its mysteries to you.

Sometimes, as others mentioned, an AI will give the illusion of there being an actual spirit within, but most of the time it's just the way the Imperium understands their technology, from unjamming a rifle to operating a Titan.

[Cykeisme]

Likewise, when a device malfunctions, it is because its machine spirit has been angered.
It must be appeased by performing the correct maintenance rituals (i.e. applying lubricants to an engine's moving parts, or clearing a jam from a weapon).

On the other hand, the most common example of "real" machine spirits would be the Land Raider armored vehicle's AI, that can take over piloting the vehicle in a limited capacity should the crew be stunned.

[Feil]

The Machine Spirits are a funny enigma. Some are real, tangible spirits like ancient cultures' wood sprites and such (usually Chaos though), some are actually advanced AI technology, and some is...more complicated. There most certainly are a goodly number of very real Machine Spirits, and some are just fancy machines.

QFT. Remember, folks, demons can live in any old inanimate object, Space Orks run wild against Commie Mecha Aliens, and the galaxy's most dangerous warriors charge into battle wielding chainsaws, but it's unrealistic for a gun or a computer to have a spirit .



As to vacuum tubes - 40k does have technological progression and science - they're just a little different from what we're used to, and the level of technology that's been lost is so high that it's hard to see that progression, since a better Double A Battery doesn't look that cool when your ancient and holy battery-o-matic can give you hundreds of volts and thousands of watts with an operating life of eight hundred years. It's quite possible that over centuries of slow, start-and-stop innovation, vacuum tubes were rediscovered and put into use as low-cost alternatives to failing solid-state-diode-o-matics.

[Cykeisme]

As I understand, although Mars holds the repository of all knowledge granted to Mankind by the Omnissiah, the many Forge Worlds out there have varying states of advancement in different fields of technology.
Furthermore, individual Forge Worlds often hoard their knowledge rather than sharing with others that aren't close to them.

Thus, there may well be certain Forge Worlds who have lost either the knowledge or the facilities to produce certain types of components.

I imagine that while the manufactorums on one Forge World might still be producing integrated circuits (or even nano-scale microchips), others may need to produce breadboards with vacuum tubes as components of some machinery.

Basically the Adeptus Mechanicus (or the Imperium for that matter) is neither a unified nor uniform body.

[Peptuck]

Basically the Adeptus Mechanicus (or the Imperium for that matter) is neither a unified nor uniform body.

This is 40k. There is no such thing as a really unified body, period. The Tau are the closest you can get, and even they have Commander Farsight.

[NecronLord]

Vacuum tubes are nigh-immune to EMP, it's worth noting. Transistors, not so much.

[dragon]

Ok reading Hammer of Daemons when Justicar Alaric is taken prison by the Blood God forces. And they culture seem a bit like hell more thn anything but was wondering what are the other Chaos gods and what are their societies like? Also in the book they mentioned the palace of the blood god in the warp, does such a place really exist or is it just an idea?
And where do the Daemons come from, besides from the warp are there planets to live on their or something?

[Shroom Man 777]

In the Eye of Terror, a place where the warp and the real space merge into one, there are entire hellish planets dominated by daemons. It's hell realized.

[dragon]

Isn't there a god for pleasure or something? If so I think that would be a better one to follow.

[Shroom Man 777]

Well... in this light hearted novel about an easy going commissar named Cain, Slaaneshi (hedonism god) cultists have this grotesque orgy wherein their orgasm is so intense that their bodies start melting together and fusing into one to form a horrifically beautiful daemoness. Then all those she touches have the mother of all orgasms and wither and die as their souls are consumed.

Doesn't stop our commissar Ciaphas Cain-kun from emerging victorious and ready to cuddle-snuggle with Inquisitor Amberley-chan, though!

^__^

[Ritterin Sophia]

Ok reading Hammer of Daemons when Justicar Alaric is taken prison by the Blood God forces. And they culture seem a bit like hell more thn anything but was wondering what are the other Chaos gods and what are their societies like? Also in the book they mentioned the palace of the blood god in the warp, does such a place really exist or is it just an idea?
And where do the Daemons come from, besides from the warp are there planets to live on their or something?

Yes, the Blood God is Khorne, there's also Slaanesh the Chaos God of Hedonism, Tzeentch the Chaos God of Change, and Nurgle the Chaos God of Mortality. There's also a number of minor Chaos Gods: Malal is the Chaos God of Rebellion, Necoho the Chaos God of Apostasy, and Zavassin who seems to be the Chaos God of Failure.

Daemon Worlds are typically worlds that have fallen into the Eye of Terror and given over to whichever Daemon Prince has conquered them. Slaaneshi Daemon Worlds would tend to be places of hedonism, sex, drugs, and torture run rampant. Tzeentchian ones would be places of study devoted to sorcery, where everyone plots against the other. Nurglite worlds tend to be rather happy places where the followers join hands and dance, since Nurgle's followers view the plagues afflicting them as gifts, and Papa Nurgle is happy to deliver.

As far as I'm aware, Daemons with an affiliation are created by their masters. Daemons of Chaos Undivided would presumably spawn directly from the warp by the devotion of those aligned to Chaos Undivided.

[Ritterin Sophia]

Ghetto Edit: I forgot about Chaos Undivided. Daemon Worlds of Chaos Undivided are structured by the way their rulers conduct themselves. An Iron Warriors Daemon World would be an immense structured fortress. Whilst a Word Bearer's Daemon World would be one gigantic temple devoted to Chaos, where the rulers' demands of veneration for Chaos from their cultists would turn the Ecclesiarchy green with envy, quickly followed by a quick shift to red because of the heresy.

[[R_H]]

Yes, the Blood God is Khorne, there's also Slaanesh the Chaos God of Hedonism, Tzeentch the Chaos God of Change, and Nurgle the Chaos God of Mortality. There's also a number of minor Chaos Gods: Malal is the Chaos God of Rebellion, Necoho the Chaos God of Apostasy, and Zavassin who seems to be the Chaos God of Failure.

Do the minor Chaos gods each serve a major god? Like Malal serving Tzeentch etc?

[Ritterin Sophia]

Yes, the Blood God is Khorne, there's also Slaanesh the Chaos God of Hedonism, Tzeentch the Chaos God of Change, and Nurgle the Chaos God of Mortality. There's also a number of minor Chaos Gods: Malal is the Chaos God of Rebellion, Necoho the Chaos God of Apostasy, and Zavassin who seems to be the Chaos God of Failure.

Do the minor Chaos gods each serve a major god? Like Malal serving Tzeentch etc?

No, in fact they're rather counter to the other Gods. Malal represents Chaos turning in upon itself, as such he's opposed to all the others. Malal himself is parasitic, as the others grow in power, so does he. His followers themselves hate Chaos, so much in fact that they're more than happy to use the powers of Chaos to destroy the Chaos Gods.

Necoho is the Chaos God of Apostosy, he's a warp manifest paradox, as he opposes all religion, as you can see his following is the smallest since it is detrimental to his power. As atheism and agnosticism rises, so does Necoho's power.

Zuvassin is known as the ondoer, constantly foiling the plots of all the other Chaos Gods, especially if the plot is seen to be unstoppable. He's been known to usurp cults that think they're venerating another Chaos God/

[andrewgpaul]

General, where are these lesser gods mentioned? Malal I'm aware of - and also why he's not mentioned any more - but the others are new to me.

[Shroom Man 777]

How much exposure do these smaller guys get, anyway?

[andrewgpaul]

None at all, unless General S comes back with a Black Library reference.

Malal doesn't get mentioned, because Malal is still the intellectual property of the guy who thought him up for the 1st edition Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay in the eighties, and subsequently left. Thus, GW can't use him.

[Ritterin Sophia]

General, where are these lesser gods mentioned? Malal I'm aware of - and also why he's not mentioned any more - but the others are new to me.

'Something Rotten in Kislev' and the 'Enemy Within', though it would appear they're primarily for Warhammer Fantasy I would assume that since the other five are in WH40k the other two would be as well.

[andrewgpaul]

They the old WFRP supplements? I never read those. Played the last book of the Enemy Within campaign, though.

I wonder if the sample God in the"Design your own Chaos God" section of Realms of Chaos: The Lost and the Damned is canon?

It's also worth pointing out that, IIRC, all the other gods - the Eldar pantheon, Gork and Mork, are formed in the same way - concentrated emotions, for want of a better description. The Emperor himself was created from the merged souls of Earth's shamans and mystics, around7,000BC. Even the Tyranid Hive Mind has it's own presence in the warp, as an all-enveloping shadow.

[[R_H]]

No, in fact they're rather counter to the other Gods. Malal represents Chaos turning in upon itself, as such he's opposed to all the others. Malal himself is parasitic, as the others grow in power, so does he. His followers themselves hate Chaos, so much in fact that they're more than happy to use the powers of Chaos to destroy the Chaos Gods.

Necoho is the Chaos God of Apostosy, he's a warp manifest paradox, as he opposes all religion, as you can see his following is the smallest since it is detrimental to his power. As atheism and agnosticism rises, so does Necoho's power.

Zuvassin is known as the ondoer, constantly foiling the plots of all the other Chaos Gods, especially if the plot is seen to be unstoppable. He's been known to usurp cults that think they're venerating another Chaos God/

Was Necoho more powerful during the Great Crusade than the other Chaos gods (Khorne, Tzeentch, Nurgle)? Would Malal have worshippers among Chaos cultists in the Imperium? Or would they be mistaken for cultists of the other Chaos gods?

[Darth Ruinus]

Necoho is the Chaos God of Apostosy, he's a warp manifest paradox, as he opposes all religion, as you can see his following is the smallest since it is detrimental to his power. As atheism and agnosticism rises, so does Necoho's power.

An atheist god?