STGOD 2K8 mk. II Planning Thread

[Dark Hellion]

This is where we discuss rules, rulings, and other aspects of the game play itself. Keep it cool please.

[Crossroads Inc.]

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>_>
Dark, why did you start up like 6 new threads?

[Dark Hellion]

Read the STGOD casting call.

I am taking over management of this affair. Until I can delegate that is.

[Dark Hellion]

Ok, so I am probably bringing up a sore subject, but do we want to try and put in trade? Money seems to be such a good reason for war, but its a rules void that will not be fun to fill. I think I have a solution, but I would rather have any vehement disagreements now so I can throw this idea out completely.

Ideally, I would like to get 10 players with semi-finalized OOBs, a bit of political history between them, and then jump into the main game as fast as possible.

[Darkevilme]

We have seven players last i counted, five of which of course are from the original start.

As for trade, well the thing is the chamaran's are only good for trading missile salvoes really. Makay's main wealth is minerals being siphoned to Pyre to build more death dealing things.

So while trade may be viable it shouldnt be crippling not to do it.

Also...well as Dahak as already said we're rules heavy here compared to stgods before us, do we really need trade rules as well on top of the pages of rules for other stuff? It seems to be scaring off the narrativists.

[Tanasinn]

The Humanist Union will trade with pretty much any nation quite freely, aggressive rhetoric nonwithstanding. Their attitudes towards nations where humans and xenos are integrated will be developed throughout the game.

[Ohma]

Barring some fairly major changes in their foreign/social policy, the Stellar Dominatrixiat isn't going to be much for trade either.

[Dark Hellion]

Ok, the trade thing has been met with mixed revues, but I think I will still lay out the basic groundwork for the idea, and see what people think about it.

Trade would be a way for two nations who could actually cooperate to gain access to additional points to build each turn. To do so, each side would have to build ships with the +T special ability. They would both need to contribute the ships to get the bonus points (if the numbers are unequal, the lowest is used) Trading ships would be considered to spend the entirety of the turn flying between the two powers systems. Travel time isn't important, one point of T is big enough that supplying the necessary amount isn't the issue as much as simply having the stuff to ship.

For example: Nation A and Nation B enter a trade pact on turn 2. At the end of turn two Nation A builds 5 0+10T ships, and Nation B builds 5 5+10T armed merchant ships. The two nations then spend turn 3 trading. If someone want to ambush the ships, they could simply wait in the path, and player agreement, rping or mod action would decide the situation under which the ambush occurs. Lets asume a small pirate ambush occured and took at 2 of Nation Bs ships. At the end of turn 3, both Nation A and Nation B get 30 bonus points to spend.

As you can see by the system, it encourages players to get along if possible, and to utilize their military forces to protect other nations, but also engourages players to deny thier enemies resources, and gives causus belli for wars much easier than random attacking or silly probe bullshit.

[Darkevilme]

With trade as an investment it seems fair.

I'm so getting some stealth attack ships with my first round of production

[Dark Hellion]

Its Space Imperialism. Exploit echother and pirate the shit outta everything.

[Ohma]

Sounds good to me, it'd also give my little stealth ships something to do other than eavesdrop on other factions.

[Dark Hellion]

So, it seems that people like this idea. However, the more inquisitive members might wonder why no one starts with trade ships. Well, following the destruction of Terra and the slow death of the Empire the entirety of the inter-system trade structure collapsed. While the intrasystem trade is still running, making us our points per turn, the general galactic market has just stabalized enough in the last couple of years to start trading. Additionally, given the chaos, roaming bands of barbarians and pirates, etc. you need to both rebuild the large merchant navy that the Empire provided, and the supporting convoys that allowed them to go unfettered between sources.

To get trade moving faster, I would like to make turn 1 a very quick turn, maybe 2 weeks real time. I would like to have every other turn be around 1 month of real time long, although this will be easy to extend if things go on too long, but are still moving at real pace.

Also, I would like to start setting up any known interfactionary politics in this thread, so PM people if you don't know if you would know them or not, and figure out how the two factions interact in the political sphere in the past, and if their is neutrality, open enmity or friendship between the two.

[Raxmei]

Harmony's location, and history are information easily available to anyone who cares to look. Notification of the regime change was sent to all known parties. The "who" and "what" are fairly common knowledge, as is most of the "why". The "how" on the other hand, the nation's methods, are more obscure, as this information is not publicised and most operations have been carried out within its own borders up to this point. Basically, pretty much everyone who doesn't live in a cave should at least know of me. I'd probably have regular contact with all my neighbors except the Dominatrixiat unless actively rebuffed, but no substantial involvement. From what I can tell of the various national personalities, Harmony's likely to be sympathetic with the Humanists and relatively standoffy to Malacaster and Dawn's Star.

[Ohma]

I don't think anyone would know about the Dominatrixiat, however there is a chance that they may have ties to my colony systems, and that they may find it unusual that nothing has been heard from them for a few years now.

[Darkevilme]

Okay i'll put it up here.

Makay: Makay was one of those systems that didnt do much more than tithe to Terra, they did have an imperial battlemoon on station as a periphery outpost and while that was there they were able to spare ships to trade with the Kushwani though Makay has always had little more than sub par industry and large scale resource acquisition to its name. The battlemoon from this unimportant spot was one of the first ships drawn into the enclave war, it was at this point that trade stopped and with the destruction of earth and its records Makay is little more than an area on the map marked as an imperial province with the original mining charter and colonization documents attached.

Chamarans: No diplomatic contact, no visual or face to face contact has been made by humans outside of subjugated Makay and their name is not even known. The Chamarans amount to an extremely well armed mystery. How much the Kushwani choose to share about the destruction of their tradeship and the capture of their mothership will determine whether the universe at large even knows of the existence of these alien invaders.

[Darkevilme]

Also i'm assuming that Makay had records which are now in Chamaran hands which at least gives the kitties the locations of most empires that were part of the empire. So they dont actually know the Trixiat exists, lucky trixiat.

[Tanasinn]

The Humanist Union is pretty loud, and anyone who's been looking will probably have at least a basic familiarity with its past within the Empire and its behavior leading up to the Empire's collapse.

[Darkevilme]

Is there any scope in this game for the construction of one off special project superships after the start?

[Dark Hellion]

I wouldn't see why you can't build something huge, as long as you invest the time and logistics to do so. It depends upon what it is, and how it is supposed to work, but ultimately if it is built using the points system and doesn't have any uberpowers go ahead. If its fair then its fair. Otherwise a remnant faction might reveal that they do have 1 Imperial grade Black Star Gravatic Warhead left.

[A-Wing_Slash]

I think the main idea of the point limits is not that the limit is the largest thing you can make, but that if you build past your limit its strength doesn't scale linearly (i.e. a huge 100 pointer would lose hard to two 50 pointers). As long as you dedicate some effort to it though, and don't be a nitpicker in combat, I see no reason you can't build something larger than a limit.

[Ohma]

EDIT: man, that's my second mistake like this tonight, fucking heat!

EDIT: err...make that the third, this is the right thread.

Okay, so the only stuff left that I want to ad to my OOB is fluff so I think the Dominatrixiat is semi-officially ready to play.

For factions that the 'trixiat knows about I'd say anyone who was a fairly major player in Imperial society before the fall (so the groups that Tegh would've known about, that any intact informational media from his ship might have mentioned, and anyone that the colonies in Alpha Cephi and Theta Mira would have known about).
With those criterea, I think the 'trixiat only really has info on Moloch, the HU, and the Kushawni.
I don't think they know anything about the Chamarans or Makay (lucky xenos ), and only have vague rumors about everyone else.

OKAY LAST EDIT: I think that the two contenders for factions who feel that something is amiss in my neck of space are Harmony and Malacaster since they're both close enough that they may have had some contact with my colony systems during "better" times.

[Darkevilme]

*contemplates* Giant warship or mass suicide mind control bomb....oooh decisions.

As an aside when were we planning to start this thing again?

[Dark Hellion]

The Socio-political interactions of Moloch

All factions have a basic idea about the Imperial Territory of Moloch. They know that it has a highly socialistic neo-feudal society, that it formerly supplied highly competent mercenary forces for the Empire. They know that Moloch is extremely wealthy, and formerly enjoyed a position of great power among the higher echelons of Imperial Territories. They know that it has a highly extravagant nobility who are slightly sheltered from the reality of a vast majority of the galaxy, and that Moloch still wields a lot of pull with most of the weaker southeastern remnant factions.

Specific interactions:

Chamarans: The Chamarans know only what they can gleam from the Makay Datasphere. The Molochi know nothing about the Chamaran, and know only that there was a battle in the galactic Northwest some time ago in which numerous ships where damaged/destroyed/MIA.

Nashtar: The Imperial Territory of Moloch has had little history of direct interaction with Nashtar and thus Nashtar knows only a bit more than the basic facts outlined above. Before the fall and the rebellion, Moloch viewed Nashtar as another one of the hundreds of Territorial powers with an FTL/STL population integration problem. When the rebellions broke out, Moloch viewed it as an internal Imperial matter. The continued rebellion has inspired mild dislike from the Molochi people in general. Among the Molochi there is still a strong view of anger at rebellion against the Empire, who they viewed as the greatest human construction to date, and had great pride in their position within it.

Stellar Dominatrixiat: The Stellar Dominatrixiat knows only the basic facts about Moloch that can be gleamed from an Imperial non-classified datasphere. The Moloch know nothing of the Dominatrixiat.

The Kushawni: The Molochi have limited contact with the Kushawni within the political sphere. The Kushawni know only a bit more than the basic facts about Moloch. Moloch is on amiable terms with the Kushawni, but have no distinct interest or disinterest in them.

The Humanist Union: The Molochi people have had some limited contact with the Humanist Union. As heavily militarized states, they share some similar operating procedures and mindsets, but the Molochi see the HUs heavily emphasis on pure merit, and their concerns with genetic engineering to be very naive, and generally view the HU as somewhat backwards, young at perhaps not deserving of the technology that allows their society to run. The Molochi dislike of anti-imperialism also gives the HU a negative light. However, despite these negative views, Moloch views the Humanist Union not as a foe or rival, but with a strongly neutral dislike.

The Dawn Star Empire: The Molochi know little outside official Dataspheres about the Dawn Star Empire. However, as a violently anti-imperial force, the Molochi would consider them extremely dangerous, and would be loath to make too friendly of gestures. The Dawn Star Empire would know basic facts about Moloch.

Harmony: The Molochi haven't had a great deal of interaction outside some minor trade with Harmony, and as such neither power knows more than the basic facts about each other. Moloch strongly dislikes anti-imperialism, and hates syndicalism and as thus are going to be mildly belligerent to Harmony for their participation in such activities.

The Duchy of Malacaster: The Duchy and the Molochi have maintained a strongly affable neutrality for a long time, as the two factions represented a great deal of Imperial Territorial power in the south, Moloch for the Southeast and Malacaster for the Southwest. The two planets similarities in Neo-feudalism, military character and strong imperial pride make for most politics to be conducted on highly friendly terms, and the two powers have great respect for each other.

[Crossroads Inc.]

Thanks for putting up that "Who knows Who" Hellion, that wil lclear up a lot of stuff that I'd been thinking about..

For those wondering what the Kushawnis are going to say about the Charmarans.. When the game starts, much of theKushawni are going to be split and still in an uproar over the "Scandle" that happend at Makay. The military have been at odds with the Civilian leaders about what to do with the whole mess so very littlehas "Offically" been said

however for anyone who has an active ear will be sure ti hear "Rumors" that the Kushawni got thier ass kicked by "someone" And that it happend North of them. Knowledge of the xenos themsleves is being kept secret but for those that know of the Makay Provincve, they should be able to figure out it wasn't the Makays who defeated the Kushawni.

By the way,m for those talking about a lack of Superweapons or giant shipyards... Have you all forgotton that the CityMind is a 100mile wide PlanetShip with, AFAIK the biggest shipyards in the game

EDIT: for more back story on the Kushawni in general.. they are fiercly proud...and have a "slight" inferiority complex... They have this Immense PlanetShip that gives them a Legacy, a sense that they have a great Future that demands to be fulfilled. The civilian governemt goes out of its way to build this up, hence building massive tradeships and showy defense ships. The military is far more concered simply with defending Kushawnis Borders

[Lancer]

A point of note, the Dawns Star Empire doesn't consider itself anti-Imperial as much as restorationist. It was an Imperial garrison led by a (now deified) Imperial Commander that found itself stuck in the middle of nowhere when shit hit the Imperial fan, and they decided to clean house. Of course, when Lady Dawn and her flagship just dissapeared, then Terra got wiped off the map, the plans for restoration became a bit more complicated. The end result is a somewhat confused Imperial-loyalist faction torn between rebuilding the old Empire and forging a new Empire.

Their massive divergence from mainstream Imperial remnants is due to their isolation. They're not barbarians, but they've had to make do with what they had available.