I Got Operation Flashpoint GotY

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Post by Commander 598 »

Furthermore, if you stop pressing it your aircraft doesn't stop in place and starts hovering so you can conveniently annihilate the enemy in one pass.
Are you saying that it stops or that it doesn't stop when you stop pressing the forward key? The former isn't supposed to happen and the latter is entirely normal however stopping requires the application of acrobatic skill or some "reverse thrust".
A handy thing i discovered 3 days ago after flying planes with the mouse for ...7 years Shocked now is that if you hold down the alt key you can move the mouse in free look mode, which means targeting stuff in the A-10 doesnt become a death spin each time. Embarrassed
The * button on the numpad toggles it.

(Reinstalling BTW)
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Post by Steel »

Commander 598 wrote: The * button on the numpad toggles it.

(Reinstalling BTW)
Yeah i knew about that, as just after i got the game a couple of times i had hit it and didnt know what i'd pressed, so was stuck with a man who could only run in one direction and couldnt aim his weapon. Didnt think to use it while flying as i'd assumed the plane would crash horribly and most of the time i'm using a laptop without the numpad *. It was a nice surprise when i found holding the alt key worked.

I downloaded some stupid stuff in the last couple of days, a zombie mod, and a pretty large WH40K mod. Lots of fun drop podding in and mowing down troops with the terminator's assault cannon.
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Post by Commander 598 »

I don't know about any newer releases, but I do know that the first 40k mod release, while it had some nice models especially for the Tau, it had some pathetic confg work. You could kill a space marine with an M16 easy.
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Post by Adrian Laguna »

weemadando wrote:I used W and S for forward/reverse pitch, A and D for "slipping"/"strafing" left and right, Z and C for rudder motion and F and V for increase/decrease power (read: alititude).
It could be problematic to try it that way. I'm not comfortable using some of those keys, especially Z. Way I have it, I got rid of the turn keys as useless, and remapped crouch to C and prone to X, I use my thumb for them. I'll give it a shot, though, maybe it works.
Steel wrote:The site has definitely been working for the last couple of days, i've downloaded stuff myself, last update is dated 11. 5. 2008, 22:15:37 too. Keep trying it, theres thousands of things on there.
I've tried it multiple times in both Firefox and IE. It won't load, as if I weren't connected to the internet or the page didn't exist. Note that Gamepark.cz does work, which made me think they'd taken down the Flashpoint section.
Commander 598 wrote:Are you saying that it stops or that it doesn't stop when you stop pressing the forward key? The former isn't supposed to happen and the latter is entirely normal however stopping requires the application of acrobatic skill or some "reverse thrust".
If I were playing, say, Mercenaries: Playground of Destruction, if you stop pressing the stick forward, the chopper goes into hover mode. In OFP you have to pitch the nose up and stop it yourself, else it keeps going.
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Post by Oskuro »

I picked up the demo for ArmA and was underwhelmed..... But all this raving about OPF is making me wonder.

Right now, I have the Ghost Recon series waiting for me to play them. How do they compare to OPF?

Does the GotY edition include the expansions, by the way? I generally like to buy the all-in-one packs if they ever make them.


As for choppers.... I love flying the Desert Combat choppers, wich have the right blend of realism and playability to them (mainly due to engine constraints, though).... The ArmA choppers I didn't feel too comfortable about.... Even considering I'm a fan of helicopter sims (going as far back as the Gunship 2000 game).
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Post by MKSheppard »

Teh biggest problem with Flashpoint is it's mission format; there are 11,000 cool as shit mods out there for it; but there's no way to randomly generate a mission for OFP to use all the new toys.
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Post by Stark »

LordOskuro wrote:I picked up the demo for ArmA and was underwhelmed..... But all this raving about OPF is making me wonder.

Right now, I have the Ghost Recon series waiting for me to play them. How do they compare to OPF?

Does the GotY edition include the expansions, by the way? I generally like to buy the all-in-one packs if they ever make them.


As for choppers.... I love flying the Desert Combat choppers, wich have the right blend of realism and playability to them (mainly due to engine constraints, though).... The ArmA choppers I didn't feel too comfortable about.... Even considering I'm a fan of helicopter sims (going as far back as the Gunship 2000 game).
OFP was a clumsy, ugly attempt to make an open-area shooter. It has a terrible ingame interface, the least intuitive communication system ever, but still managed to be more interesting than most other shooters. Most people don't 'like' OFP; OFP itself is pretty poo for a variety of reasons. But the idea of a 'fixed' or 'complete' OFP is what drew people to ArmA. It's the cure for bullshit corridor stroller crap. When it worked, it's mission scripting was fantastic, and when it didn't you found yourself in a huge open island with nothing to do (and a truck load of corpses).

As Shep says, the 'no random mission' thing was terrible. Get some new stuff? Have fun spending half an hour editing missions to see it! The SP was an amusing mix of completely retarded difficulty and absurd setups (like 'snipe a village with your MP5 then place bombs to destroy a convoy that's still coming despite the gun battle that just took place').

People who think 'flying choppers in sims' is somehow related to Gunship 2000 are amusing. Gunship 2000, one of those helicopter games where it was trivial to fly 100% of the time at 7 feet and kill enemy tanks with a single 25mm shell! Ahh, the 90s. Flying helicopters is THAT EASY!

OFP's physics were pretty terrible - did their flight models distinguish between 'choppers' and 'the Hind'? I remember flying all of them pretty much the same way.
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Post by Losonti Tokash »

Yeah, the flight physics are awful in every single way. I remember looking forward to getting to play the pilot character for most of the game and thinking that since running the tank was so awesome then flying A-10s and Blackhawks would just kick all kinds of ass.

Then I tilted the joystick a bit to the right and sent the A-10 into an inverted spin. Whoops.
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Post by weemadando »

The absolute funniest thing you can do in that game is to create a mission with the A-10 w/ LGBs being AI controlled and then give it some targets. Spawn yourself A LONG WAY AWAY (but still in visual range). Note how it will either place the bomb precisely on the target tanks commander's hatch, or (more often) somehow miss by about 5km.

It's fucking painful just how bad the aircraft AI is with unguided weapons. Another example is to watch a gunship doing rocket strafing runs that ALWAYS pull off about 10m before the target after pulverising the previous 200m.
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Post by PeZook »

Stark wrote: OFP was a clumsy, ugly attempt to make an open-area shooter. It has a terrible ingame interface, the least intuitive communication system ever, but still managed to be more interesting than most other shooters. Most people don't 'like' OFP; OFP itself is pretty poo for a variety of reasons. But the idea of a 'fixed' or 'complete' OFP is what drew people to ArmA. It's the cure for bullshit corridor stroller crap. When it worked, it's mission scripting was fantastic, and when it didn't you found yourself in a huge open island with nothing to do (and a truck load of corpses).
You forgot the part about the campaign being completely retarded:

Colonel Idiot: Allright, men! Someone has invaded the neighboring island! We don't know who they are, what kind of weapons they have, how many of them are there. But we will take a company of light airmobile troops and one tank, and go there to liberate the island, knowing nothing! Hurrah!

Oh, and by the way - there is a carrier on the way, and it has enough firewpower on board to flatten the entire island and murder all armored vehicles present there and make any counter-invasion a complete cakewalk. But no, we won't wait for it, because we're complete idiots.

It got better with Resistance, though.
Stark wrote:As Shep says, the 'no random mission' thing was terrible. Get some new stuff? Have fun spending half an hour editing missions to see it! The SP was an amusing mix of completely retarded difficulty and absurd setups (like 'snipe a village with your MP5 then place bombs to destroy a convoy that's still coming despite the gun battle that just took place').
The game was very script-heavy, I'll give you that, but I think part of the charm was that the scripting language was extremely easy.

Moddability has kept far worse games alive for a long time. Plus, part of the charm was that you really could approach the mission however you wanted, from any direction, navigate by stars, et al.

One of the coolest missions was the "escape from captivity" one. Except for how retarded the Spetznaz guards were, of course :D
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Post by Vympel »

But the idea of a 'fixed' or 'complete' OFP is what drew people to ArmA
Indeed. Too bad they fixed sweet fuck all. The graphics weren't even that much better, for fuck's sake.

I'm gonna go right ahead and say that it's a waste of time fart-assing about with being a platoon leader or whatever. Personally, I find leading a bunch of AI an exercise in tedium and frustration, and cannot imagine what game will have the AI or interface to make it anything else.

Neither Bohemia Interactive or Codemasters will ever make this aspect fun, ever.
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Post by CaptHawkeye »

PeZook wrote:
It got better with Resistance, though.
Did it? :) I seem to recall a mission in Resistance that called for the character to steal a bunch of tanks from an armored depot that was stupid enough to put all of its personel on the other side of a hill and have 3 dudes watch the tanks. How about you and your merry Resistance fighters defeating a whole Armored Assault with their smattering of tanks? :)
One of the coolest missions was the "escape from captivity" one. Except for how retarded the Spetznaz guards were, of course :D
Ironically, I think the best mission i've ever played came from Flashpoint's oft-forgotten Red Hammer expansion pack. The beach invasion mission followed by the raid on the town just behind the beachhead was awesome.
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Post by PeZook »


Did it? Smile I seem to recall a mission in Resistance that called for the character to steal a bunch of tanks from an armored depot that was stupid enough to put all of its personel on the other side of a hill and have 3 dudes watch the tanks. How about you and your merry Resistance fighters defeating a whole Armored Assault with their smattering of tanks? Smile
I said it got better, not that it got all that good. At least there were no WTF moments like...the entire beginning of OFP I mentioned above.

And I liked Victor's character, unlike all those poorly voice-acted, poorly written douchebags from the original OFP. Well, okay - Gastovsky was passable, but all the others...bleh.

Victor, on the other hand? Way better, man. Way better.

"I said it would end like this. I said innocent people would die! This has got to stop!"

"Victor, we can't just give up now!"

"Who said anything about giving up? Get your weapons. We'll throw those murdering bastards off our island!"
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JULY 20TH 1969 - The day the entire world was looking up

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MILDLY DERANGED PHYSICIST does not mind BREAKING the SOUND BARRIER, because it is INSURED. - Simon_Jester considering the problems of hypersonic flight for Team L.A.M.E.
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Post by weemadando »

There were a few great moments for me in teh original OFP that scared the living shit out of me. One of them was the first patrol in the forest when you run into the Spetznaz. Just hearing your teammates shouting (like Stephen Hawking) for help one at a time before they died was pretty chilling the first time.

I had another where I was running to rejoin my squad who had retreated to the APC - as I'm legging it across open terrain with the .50 cal providing me some cover fire I see an RPG reach out and just blow the APC to shit, leaving me all on my lonesome trying to take out a platoon strength enemy force (here's a clue - I didn't make it).

And the mission where you have to escape Everon, or Malden, whichever... And you have to reach the evac point before the last of the choppers leaves, the whole while you have the enemy searching for you, choppers occasionally joining the search and then when you reach the end and find that the LZ has already been over-run? That sucks.

In some co-op MP games we've also had a lot of fun. The convoy ambush is always a good one to get the teamwork started. Doing a simultaneous detonation of 16 satchel charges along the length of the convoy is both spectacular and satisfying. And it comes with a side order of very pissed off Russians chasing you.
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Post by PeZook »

And the mission where you have to escape Everon, or Malden, whichever... And you have to reach the evac point before the last of the choppers leaves, the whole while you have the enemy searching for you, choppers occasionally joining the search and then when you reach the end and find that the LZ has already been over-run? That sucks.
This one was good because it didn't feel completely retarded :)

Except for the part where I hijacked a T-80 and killed every Russian on the map with it due to poor AI :P

When it comes to my favorite missions, a short list would look like that:

- The "Blow up as many T-80s as possible" mission on Everon for Gastovsky
- "Escape from Everon", which you mentioned
- All tank missions. But I hate Hammer as a character.
- That one where you are shot down over Kolgujev and have to escape from a prison camp and get back home.
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JULY 20TH 1969 - The day the entire world was looking up

It suddenly struck me that that tiny pea, pretty and blue, was the Earth. I put up my thumb and shut one eye, and my thumb blotted out the planet Earth. I didn't feel like a giant. I felt very, very small.
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Signature dedicated to the greatest achievement of mankind.

MILDLY DERANGED PHYSICIST does not mind BREAKING the SOUND BARRIER, because it is INSURED. - Simon_Jester considering the problems of hypersonic flight for Team L.A.M.E.
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Post by Oskuro »

Stark wrote: People who think 'flying choppers in sims' is somehow related to Gunship 2000 are amusing. Gunship 2000, one of those helicopter games where it was trivial to fly 100% of the time at 7 feet and kill enemy tanks with a single 25mm shell! Ahh, the 90s. Flying helicopters is THAT EASY!

Hey! Don't mock Gunship 2000! I was invincible on that game, you hear? Invincible! ..... mainly because I had accumulated an embarrasingly large amount of purple hearts, and somehow I hadn't been KIA yet :roll:

Yes, yes, it wasn't much of a sim, but I remember it fondly.
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Post by Commander 598 »

Some mods really upped the AI. I DLed the latest FFUR last night and the AI will drag their dead/wounded comrades now, in addition to verbally shouting that everyone can hear.

I never got very far on either campaign... I do recall a custom made mission where a shot down blackhawk pilot has to get to an evac location on Kolgujev by XXXX hrs, in the dark, with patrols searching for you. Twas quite atmospheric.
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Post by Adrian Laguna »

LordOskuro wrote:I picked up the demo for ArmA and was underwhelmed..... But all this raving about OPF is making me wonder.
ArmA is a new and improved OPF, except they didn't fix what they needed to fix, and what they did fix they made worse. Except the graphics, which actually are marginally better.

I think OFP is a good fun game, even though it has its quirks and rampant silliness. For example, the shitty ballistics modelling lets you accurately kill enemy soldiers with an MP5 at 400 metres. Some of these issues, as well as several textures, are improved by mods such as FFUR.

In my opinion, it's worth it for the fairly unique playing experience.
Does the GotY edition include the expansions, by the way? I generally like to buy the all-in-one packs if they ever make them.
It has everything except maybe the newest patch, and is only $10.

PeZook wrote:You forgot the part about the campaign being completely retarded:
Not really, most missions in OFP are good and make sense. Though it's not prefect, I think it's good overall. In a few occasions it can be chalked up to incompetence, they're a couple of God-forsaken islands, I doubt the US Army is assigning its creme de la creme to them. Also, bad calls or lapses in judgement do happen in real life war.
Colonel Idiot: Allright, men! Someone has invaded the neighboring island! We don't know who they are, what kind of weapons they have, how many of them are there. But we will take a company of light airmobile troops and one tank, and go there to liberate the island, knowing nothing! Hurrah!
Actually, they did have reports that indicated it was an infantry force with light armour support. Which is what you encountered at first. They didn't go there entirely blind. Regardless, what you do when attacked by an unknown enemy is not to sit in a "safe" area twiddling your thumbs, instead you send a force to go there and find out.
Oh, and by the way - there is a carrier on the way, and it has enough firewpower on board to flatten the entire island and murder all armored vehicles present there and make any counter-invasion a complete cakewalk. But no, we won't wait for it, because we're complete idiots.
No, they won't wait for it because doing so would leave the people on Everon at the mercy of the invaders, as well as let them entrench and prepare for a counter-attack. It's poor strategy to let the enemy just sit there uncontested and do whatever it wants. Even if your force is inferior to them, you can do a lot of good by probing for and assaulting weak-points to keep them off-balance.

That carrier group must have got lost on the way, though. I distinctly remember them saying it was only a couple of weeks away, yet a month later you don't hear a peep about it. That line should have been a nebulous "re-enforcements" instead of the specific "carrier group", would have made more sense story-wise.
weemadando wrote:And the mission where you have to escape Everon, or Malden, whichever... And you have to reach the evac point before the last of the choppers leaves, the whole while you have the enemy searching for you, choppers occasionally joining the search and then when you reach the end and find that the LZ has already been over-run? That sucks.
There's two missions for the evacuation of Everon. Which one you get depends on whether you successfully captured Montignac or not. If you did you get "After Montignac", which I haven't played but apparently starts with you alone in a forest, you try to make your way toward Morton, get re-directed elsewhere before you get there, and find everyone dead at the new site.

If you didn't capture it, you get "Strange Meeting", which is harder but better. You drive a truck with your squad toward Morton, where the evac is taking place, as part of a convoy. You squad is ordered to go off to cover the convoy's flank by clearing out a squad of Soviets from a nearby farmstead. You lose your truck during the firefight and must make it to Morton on foot. On the way there you are told that Morton is being overrun and a new evac area is being set-up, but your leader tries to make it there anyway, apparently in the desperate hope that they can help fight-off the Russians and catch the last boat out of there. When you arrive, you are treated to a view of the whole town covered in American corpses and crawling with Russian soldiers and AFVs, it was pretty cool. Then your commander, obviously not one of the sharpest tools in the shed, tells you to cover them while the rest of the squad crosses the road. They're all gunned down. Interestingly, though, they can survive long enough for you to get the order to follow them, but it never ends well. After that your character radios command informing them of the situation, and they tell you to hoof it to the new evac site. I went north, stole a car, and floored it. When you get to the new evac site, you get to see American corpses covering the ground again, and this time you get captured by the Soviets.
Last edited by Adrian Laguna on 2008-05-19 05:51pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by PeZook »

Adrian Laguna wrote: Actually, they did have reports that indicated it was an infantry force with light armour support. Which is what you encountered at first. They didn't go there entirely blind. Regardless, what you do when attacked by an unknown enemy is not to sit in a "safe" area twiddling your thumbs, instead you send a force to go there and find out. You know, like they did in the game.
They weren't attacked. Everon was, and they didn't know shit. The right thing would've been to dig trenches, drag barbed wire across beaches, dust off the Stingers and start doing flyovers of the island.

Oh, and, you know - try to find out what the hell the Russkies on Kolgujev are up to. Because it's not like they didn't know there was a heavily armed Russian garrison there.

Instead, they flew in right then and there, the very next day. Their entire recon was three special forces guys who were on Everon for a grand total of what, 12 hours?
Adrian Laguna wrote: No, they won't wait for it because doing so would leave the people on Everon at the mercy of the invaders, as well as let them entrench and prepare for a counter-attack. It's poor strategy to let the enemy just sit there uncontested and do whatever it wants. Even if your force is inferior to them, you can do a lot of good by probing for and assaulting weak-points to keep them off-balance.
Yes, it's much better to just attack blindly in the hope the enemy might be inferior to your troops, rather than let them "entrench" and "prepare for a counter attack". Competent troops would already have foxholes dug in after a few hours, and "entrenching" in a village simply means taking proper firing positions. There was nothing to gain by responding so quickly.
Adrian Laguna wrote: That carrier group must have got lost on the way, though. I distinctly remember them saying it was only a couple of weeks away, yet a month later you don't hear a peep about it. That line should have been a nebulous "re-enforcements" instead of the specific "carrier group", would have made more sense story-wise.
Yeah, well, that was another piece of bad writing.
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JULY 20TH 1969 - The day the entire world was looking up

It suddenly struck me that that tiny pea, pretty and blue, was the Earth. I put up my thumb and shut one eye, and my thumb blotted out the planet Earth. I didn't feel like a giant. I felt very, very small.
- NEIL ARMSTRONG, MISSION COMMANDER, APOLLO 11

Signature dedicated to the greatest achievement of mankind.

MILDLY DERANGED PHYSICIST does not mind BREAKING the SOUND BARRIER, because it is INSURED. - Simon_Jester considering the problems of hypersonic flight for Team L.A.M.E.
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Post by Adrian Laguna »

PeZook wrote:They weren't attacked. Everon was, and they didn't know shit.
I got the impression that Everon and Malden were part of the same "country" as it were.
The right thing would've been to dig trenches, drag barbed wire across beaches, dust off the Stingers and start doing flyovers of the island.
That can be done concurrently with responding to the situation on Everon.
Instead, they flew in right then and there, the very next day. Their entire recon was three special forces guys who were on Everon for a grand total of what, 12 hours?
It's not like they needed longer. You can cover half the island, on foot, with one man, in a couple of hours.
Adrian Laguna wrote:Yes, it's much better to just attack blindly in the hope the enemy might be inferior to your troops, rather than let them "entrench" and "prepare for a counter attack". Competent troops would already have foxholes dug in after a few hours, and "entrenching" in a village simply means taking proper firing positions.
It wasn't a blind hope, the enemy did at first seem to be inferior. It's not until you get to Montignac that it becomes evident you are dealing with a larger and better equipped force than expected. It wouldn't the first time someone underestimates the strength of the enemy and orders a daring attack in light of that incorrect information. Does Market Garden ring a bell? I'm not arguing the Americans didn't fuck up, I'm saying that they fucked-up in a believable manner.
There was nothing to gain by responding so quickly.
Aside from gaining a foothold on Everon that could be used as a sort of Pusan Perimeter before the whole island was taken by the invaders.
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Post by PeZook »

Adrian Laguna wrote: I got the impression that Everon and Malden were part of the same "country" as it were.
That's unlikely. The Americans had no idea what was going on with Everon when it was invaded.
Adrian Laguna wrote:That can be done concurrently with responding to the situation on Everon.
Except, of course, for the fact you'll be getting your guys killed and have no idea about your objectives (other than "let's go and kill those guys over there")

Now, either Blake was written as a retard or the authors just fucked this up, but either way I had trouble believing this guy could command anything resembling a military campaign.
Adrian Laguna wrote:It's not like they needed longer. You can cover half the island, on foot, with one man, in a couple of hours.
Yeah, you can walk across the island, but not conduct proper recon.
Adrian Laguna wrote:It wasn't a blind hope, the enemy did at first seem to be inferior. It's not until you get to Montignac that it becomes evident you are dealing with a larger and better equipped force than expected. It wouldn't the first time someone underestimates the strength of the enemy and orders a daring attack in light of that incorrect information. Does Market Garden ring a bell? I'm not arguing the Americans didn't fuck up, I'm saying that they fucked-up in a believable manner.
Well, my point is that they didn't even bother with proper recon. One overflight of the island would've easily shown T-80s running around, and apparently they didn't even bother with that.
Adrian Laguna wrote: Aside from gaining a foothold on Everon that could be used as a sort of Pusan Perimeter before the whole island was taken by the invaders.
Why do you need a "Pusan Perimeter" at all? The islands are small podunk shitholes ; It's not like you need to slowly crack through heavy, heavy defences.

They had no idea who the enemy was, where he came from and how many there were. Attacking in this situation is just asking for a nasty surprise.
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JULY 20TH 1969 - The day the entire world was looking up

It suddenly struck me that that tiny pea, pretty and blue, was the Earth. I put up my thumb and shut one eye, and my thumb blotted out the planet Earth. I didn't feel like a giant. I felt very, very small.
- NEIL ARMSTRONG, MISSION COMMANDER, APOLLO 11

Signature dedicated to the greatest achievement of mankind.

MILDLY DERANGED PHYSICIST does not mind BREAKING the SOUND BARRIER, because it is INSURED. - Simon_Jester considering the problems of hypersonic flight for Team L.A.M.E.
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Post by Steel »

I got FFUR 2008 and it really enhances the game. The AI seems to work better together and the combat is more intense. There are loads of extra details in the way things behave, and the oroginal campaign is still doable. (Even if at first it was much harder than in vanilla- cant pick someones nose at 500m with my m-16 anymore you say...? and they'll fire back more effectively...? uh oh). It isnt perfect; the AI still occasionally goes wonky, some of the tanks can have 2 types of shells loaded at the same time, and some other minor things, like the original campaign cutscenes dont work properly some of the time.

Does anyone know any good coop maps for 2-4 players? Or a place that ranks them well so i can get a decent one rather than have to sift through shit for days to get something decent?
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MKSheppard
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Post by MKSheppard »

Stark wrote:As Shep says, the 'no random mission' thing was terrible. Get some new stuff? Have fun spending half an hour editing missions to see it!
And sice you already know exactly what's going to happen, where's the fun in that?
"If scientists and inventors who develop disease cures and useful technologies don't get lifetime royalties, I'd like to know what fucking rationale you have for some guy getting lifetime royalties for writing an episode of Full House." - Mike Wong

"The present air situation in the Pacific is entirely the result of fighting a fifth rate air power." - U.S. Navy Memo - 24 July 1944
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Commander 598
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Post by Commander 598 »

Exactly isn't a very fitting word, unless your mission is composed almost entirely of scripts and set on a linear path.
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MKSheppard
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Post by MKSheppard »

Commander 598 wrote:Exactly isn't a very fitting word, unless your mission is composed almost entirely of scripts and set on a linear path.
Look, you know how many vehicles and infantry there are going to be in the mission; and what they're gonna be armed with.
"If scientists and inventors who develop disease cures and useful technologies don't get lifetime royalties, I'd like to know what fucking rationale you have for some guy getting lifetime royalties for writing an episode of Full House." - Mike Wong

"The present air situation in the Pacific is entirely the result of fighting a fifth rate air power." - U.S. Navy Memo - 24 July 1944
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