Situation Reversal (Alien/The Thing)

[Terralthra]

Oh no, I'm not claiming it's more effective than standard arms, just that it's not completely ineffective either. It does appear to hurt, stun, and possibly kill xenos, though there's admittedly no conclusive evidence for it. I'd prefer to think that the whole molten-lead thing never happened, as it introduces a shitload of complications: Why would a flamer make xenos drop from the walls and lie motionless on the ground, and a plasma torch make a fucking queen recoil in pain, when a bath in molten lead doesn't even remotely incapacitate a single xeno?

Lead isn't exactly tungsten. It has a melting point of 327 C, less than a half to a third the average temperature of napalm. The plasma torch cut steel, and the average melting point of steel is well over 1000 degrees C.

[Ender]

Woah! If I ever write something that deals with horrible existential terrors, I will have to feature a scene with a bunch of burly manly manly He-Manny macho men beating one of the monstrosities to death with their fists.

You'd be following in the footsteps of at least one major classic of English literature: Beowulf. Beowulf's fight with Grendel is awesomely badass for precisely that reason: he gets in a goddamn barehanded wrestling match with Grendel and mortally wounds him.

Note that poem Grendel, unlike movie Grendel, did not have any convenient Achilles heel. Why the people who made that movie thought that was a better idea I cannot imagine.

Because Neil Gaiman is a god damned hack.

[Molyneux]

Woah! If I ever write something that deals with horrible existential terrors, I will have to feature a scene with a bunch of burly manly manly He-Manny macho men beating one of the monstrosities to death with their fists.

You'd be following in the footsteps of at least one major classic of English literature: Beowulf. Beowulf's fight with Grendel is awesomely badass for precisely that reason: he gets in a goddamn barehanded wrestling match with Grendel and mortally wounds him.

Note that poem Grendel, unlike movie Grendel, did not have any convenient Achilles heel. Why the people who made that movie thought that was a better idea I cannot imagine.

Because Neil Gaiman is a god damned hack.

Aaaand here's your Troll Club membership card.
It's not just wrestling - what always impressed me was that Beowulf ripped Grendel's arm off with his bare hands.

[Swindle1984]

You'd be following in the footsteps of at least one major classic of English literature: Beowulf. Beowulf's fight with Grendel is awesomely badass for precisely that reason: he gets in a goddamn barehanded wrestling match with Grendel and mortally wounds him.

Note that poem Grendel, unlike movie Grendel, did not have any convenient Achilles heel. Why the people who made that movie thought that was a better idea I cannot imagine.

Because Neil Gaiman is a god damned hack.

Aaaand here's your Troll Club membership card.
It's not just wrestling - what always impressed me was that Beowulf ripped Grendel's arm off with his bare hands.

Don't forget his battle with Grendel's mother, which took place entirely in a cave UNDERWATER.

This, his ripping Grendel's arm off, and his bragging about how he once swam a certain distance across a sea or lake (I forget which) while wearing full armor and being attacked by sea monsters the entire time leads me to believe that Beowulf is actually a time-traveling Chuck Norris.

The only thing that eventually killed him was a badass dragon, and that's when he was elderly and had been spending his time doing king things rather than kicking ass on a regular basis.

[Ender]

You'd be following in the footsteps of at least one major classic of English literature: Beowulf. Beowulf's fight with Grendel is awesomely badass for precisely that reason: he gets in a goddamn barehanded wrestling match with Grendel and mortally wounds him.

Note that poem Grendel, unlike movie Grendel, did not have any convenient Achilles heel. Why the people who made that movie thought that was a better idea I cannot imagine.

Because Neil Gaiman is a god damned hack.

Aaaand here's your Troll Club membership card.

Oh that's right, disagreeing with someone's literary opinion is trolling action. My bad. I mean, it isn't like his books have a barely coherent plot strung together by a series of fan service chapters to calm the sexually angsty teenager.

How dare I not grasp the marvel of a man being eaten by a vagina!
How dare I not see the critical importance of a guy getting a blowjob from a woman so he feels a strong emotional connection to a person he hasn't seen in years!
How could I miss the significance of introducing characters for a single chapter for a sexual encounter and never mention them again or have their actions tie in again to the overall plot.
How could I bring my self to criticize a guy who shat all over one of the classic epics!
How could I judge a mans originality when he reuses the same themes in his works again and again!

Tell you what, lets keep this simple - defend adding the weakness to noise and making Grendel fight everyone.

[Molyneux]

Because Neil Gaiman is a god damned hack.

Aaaand here's your Troll Club membership card.

Oh that's right, disagreeing with someone's literary opinion is trolling action. My bad. I mean, it isn't like his books have a barely coherent plot strung together by a series of fan service chapters to calm the sexually angsty teenager.

How dare I not grasp the marvel of a man being eaten by a vagina!
How dare I not see the critical importance of a guy getting a blowjob from a woman so he feels a strong emotional connection to a person he hasn't seen in years!
How could I miss the significance of introducing characters for a single chapter for a sexual encounter and never mention them again or have their actions tie in again to the overall plot.
How could I bring my self to criticize a guy who shat all over one of the classic epics!
How could I judge a mans originality when he reuses the same themes in his works again and again!

Tell you what, lets keep this simple - defend adding the weakness to noise and making Grendel fight everyone.

I haven't seen the fucking movie, nor do I care to.
Neverwhere was a goddamn awesome book, and if what stuck with you in "American Gods" was the man-eating vagina, you really need to read the fucking book again and pay attention this time.

[Ender]

I haven't seen the fucking movie, nor do I care to.

So now we are defednign things we know nothing about. GOsh, and here I thought that wasting bandwidth was frowned upon here.

Neverwhere was a goddamn awesome book,

Oddly enough, none of my examples were from Neverwhere. I get the impression that you are defending the guy with very little exposure to his work.

and if what stuck with you in "American Gods" was the man-eating vagina, you really need to read the fucking book again and pay attention this time.

No, I read it and I struggled to follow the plot line through the random sequences of a married man having random gay sex with a taxidriver/genie, the guy having a fury fantasy, the vagina eating, and the random flashback to his dead wife's affair, none of which tied in with advancing the plot at all.

Fortunately the idea about god/heroes being eternal elemental forces of the universe that routinely crop up and face off against each other is something that keeps coming back in damn near everything he writes - Sandman, Marvel 1602, American Gods, Murder Mysteries, etc so I can just lift it, swap over the hero names and traits had have a good idea of what he is getting at. The fact that he fails to use symbolism or metaphors and explains it all in painstaking detail helps.

[Molyneux]

I haven't seen the fucking movie, nor do I care to.

So now we are defednign things we know nothing about. GOsh, and here I thought that wasting bandwidth was frowned upon here.

Neverwhere was a goddamn awesome book,

Oddly enough, none of my examples were from Neverwhere. I get the impression that you are defending the guy with very little exposure to his work.

and if what stuck with you in "American Gods" was the man-eating vagina, you really need to read the fucking book again and pay attention this time.

No, I read it and I struggled to follow the plot line through the random sequences of a married man having random gay sex with a taxidriver/genie, the guy having a fury fantasy, the vagina eating, and the random flashback to his dead wife's affair, none of which tied in with advancing the plot at all.

Fortunately the idea about god/heroes being eternal elemental forces of the universe that routinely crop up and face off against each other is something that keeps coming back in damn near everything he writes - Sandman, Marvel 1602, American Gods, Murder Mysteries, etc so I can just lift it, swap over the hero names and traits had have a good idea of what he is getting at. The fact that he fails to use symbolism or metaphors and explains it all in painstaking detail helps.

I've read Sandman, Death: The High Cost of Living, Neverwhere, Stardust, American Gods and Anansi Boys. I've seen the live-action versions of Stardust and Neverwhere.

I never said a damn word in defense of Beowulf; I took exception to your labeling of a man widely regarded to be one of the best authors in graphic novel history as a "hack".

[Shroom Man 777]

What exactly is wrong with a man being eaten by a vagina?

[Napoleon the Clown]

Moving on then...

After reading over what others have said, I'm going to have to agree. A lone xeno, or even enough facehuggers to infect half the living organisms of sufficient size, wouldn't do too well against the cast of The Thing. They're reasonably well armed, and Xenos don't seem to have quite the intellect needed to take the people out. Keep in mind, however, that the xeno in Alien was smart enough to use ambushes. It did possess the skills a successful predator needs. It would likely kill off people until everyone realized what was going on. Once the remaining Arctic base personal are aware that this thing is a badass, it'll find out why humans can kill almost anything on this planet. It may be tough, but the business end of a shotgun will be enough to put the thing down, especially if there are slugs on hand. And even if that failed, thermite will ruin the fucker's day in very short order. The stuff has been used to burn through entire engine blocks. Mr. Xeno will fare no better. Out of curiosity, have xenos ever been seen making use of weapons? I know that in AvP one is shown to be aware that its blood is acidic, splashing a Predator after getting part of its tail severed. Are there any examples of tool use beyond this? Even insects are capable using the "splash/spray with nasty chemical" tactic, so this isn't an especially outstanding display of intellect.


Up against the Thing, Ripley and co. are well and truly fucked. One xeno took out everyone but Ripley. Conisdering that the Thing is even nastier, even if it doesn't spread, than a xeno, Ripley and co. go down hard and fast. I doubt they'd even manage to kill one Thing.

[Molyneux]

Moving on then...

After reading over what others have said, I'm going to have to agree. A lone xeno, or even enough facehuggers to infect half the living organisms of sufficient size, wouldn't do too well against the cast of The Thing. They're reasonably well armed, and Xenos don't seem to have quite the intellect needed to take the people out. Keep in mind, however, that the xeno in Alien was smart enough to use ambushes. It did possess the skills a successful predator needs. It would likely kill off people until everyone realized what was going on. Once the remaining Arctic base personal are aware that this thing is a badass, it'll find out why humans can kill almost anything on this planet. It may be tough, but the business end of a shotgun will be enough to put the thing down, especially if there are slugs on hand. And even if that failed, thermite will ruin the fucker's day in very short order. The stuff has been used to burn through entire engine blocks. Mr. Xeno will fare no better. Out of curiosity, have xenos ever been seen making use of weapons? I know that in AvP one is shown to be aware that its blood is acidic, splashing a Predator after getting part of its tail severed. Are there any examples of tool use beyond this? Even insects are capable using the "splash/spray with nasty chemical" tactic, so this isn't an especially outstanding display of intellect.


Up against the Thing, Ripley and co. are well and truly fucked. One xeno took out everyone but Ripley. Conisdering that the Thing is even nastier, even if it doesn't spread, than a xeno, Ripley and co. go down hard and fast. I doubt they'd even manage to kill one Thing.

I don't know about the comics or anything like that, but as far as I've seen in the films, the Aliens never use any kind of tool, not even a club.

Then again, apparently one of them is smart enough to know to press a button in Alien 4...but I seriously think that the "too stupid to fit into canon" rule should apply to every film after the second one.

[Anguirus]

^ They are also smart enough to cut the power and find alternate routes in Aliens...though in the Director's Cut that came only after two stupid suicide charges at machine guns.

[Maxentius]

Are there any examples of tool use beyond this? Even insects are capable using the "splash/spray with nasty chemical" tactic, so this isn't an especially outstanding display of intellect.

It's been a while since I've seen the cinematic abortion that is Alien: Resurrection, but from what I recall, the Xenos actually escaped from holding by killing one of their own and letting his blood burn through the floor, or something similar in premise.

[Yuri2356]

Are there any examples of tool use beyond this? Even insects are capable using the "splash/spray with nasty chemical" tactic, so this isn't an especially outstanding display of intellect.

It's been a while since I've seen the cinematic abortion that is Alien: Resurrection, but from what I recall, the Xenos actually escaped from holding by killing one of their own and letting his blood burn through the floor, or something similar in premise.

That's exactly what they did. The trick was the reused in AvP to free the Queen from her chains. (Although I don't recall if the drones wounded themselves, or the queen's limbs to provide the blood.)

[Swindle1984]

They wounded the queen to free her.

In 4, they quickly learned to comply when the scientist had his hand near the button to freeze them, they killed one of their own to escape (this is why you either use acid-resistant materials or have the floor of their cell open into vacuum, you idiots.), and then froze the men who went into the cell by hitting the button.

So they're at least as intelligent as a dog.

[The Cooler King]

I don't know if this counts at all, but the novelization of Alien: Resurrection explicitly states that,by the very nature of her resurrection, Ripley gained some Xeno traits (obvious enough), and the Xenos gained some human traits. One of the Xeno-gained traits was greater intelligence (thus the button-pushing and floor-melting); another was a sense of self, at least enough for the one unfortunate alien to NOT want to die for its Queen.