Moffat to take over Dr. Who from Davies

[Crazedwraith]

I only hope Moffat's listen to the fans in so far as Earth Based episodes are concerned.

Aliens worlds = good.

Also if we could see that Evil Computer that kiddnapped Charlemagne....

[DaveJB]

I hope that under Moffat, the writers learn how to do proper two parters. As it is (apart from Empty Child/Doctor Dances and Human Nature/Family of Blood), all the two parters have seemed like someone wrote a single episode full of whizz-bang action and events, then worked backwards from that and wrote another episode full of exposition and setup to get to the start of the next one. Shocking as it might seem, I actually think that the 1985 season of Classic Who used the 2x45 minute format better than the current one is doing.

[Lord Woodlouse]

I only hope Moffat's listen to the fans in so far as Earth Based episodes are concerned.

Aliens worlds = good.

Also if we could see that Evil Computer that kiddnapped Charlemagne....

I only want to see alien worlds if they can do a proper job of it. I'm happy with only a couple alien worlds a season, but I'd like them to look AND feel alien. I doubt the limitations of budget are going to effect Moffat that differently.

...and aye, this is fabulous news. I think RTD deserves props not just for bringing the show back, but for changing some of the design of the show to (I think) work better. He's added some genuinely great drama, too, which a lot of people forget or ignore when they're busy looking at farting aliens and fat creatures. That said, Moffat is undeniably a cut above, and has good experience as head writer/executive producer. I am incredibly excited to see what kind of season arc he cooks up.

[Rye]

The old series did alien worlds pretty well. If you can spend as much money as they have on one shot rhino suits and the like, they can spend it on decent cgi and alien sets.

[Lord Woodlouse]

The old series did alien worlds pretty well. If you can spend as much money as they have on one shot rhino suits and the like, they can spend it on decent cgi and alien sets.

Which episodes did you think they did alien worlds pretty well? I always had a distinct "it's a studio set!" sensation when watching them, a feeling I've not really had while watching NewWho.

[Rye]

Episode names and specific examples are lost in nostalgia, I'm afraid. Farscape did it, anyway, that's definitely who they should be copying for space-based story.

[Lord Woodlouse]

Episode names and specific examples are lost in nostalgia, I'm afraid. Farscape did it, anyway, that's definitely who they should be copying for space-based story.

That's the annoying advantage America usually has over the UK, they've got more varied environments. There's a reason a lot of alien planets in old who looked suspiciously like a stone quarry most of the time.

[Admiral Valdemar]

That's the annoying advantage America usually has over the UK, they've got more varied environments. There's a reason a lot of alien planets in old who looked suspiciously like a stone quarry most of the time.

Not necessarily. Who else thinks that it's a bit odd most of the worlds SG-1 visit look just like British Columbia?

[Lord Woodlouse]

That's the annoying advantage America usually has over the UK, they've got more varied environments. There's a reason a lot of alien planets in old who looked suspiciously like a stone quarry most of the time.

Not necessarily. Who else thinks that it's a bit odd most of the worlds SG-1 visit look just like British Columbia?

Me?

I hardly watch SG-1, to be fair, but one of the few things I know about the show is that in the early years it was famous for having every planet look pretty much identical. This is also a show where most planets, with good reason, are populated with ordinary human beings.

[Ohma]

If I remember correctly wasn't Farscape mostly filmed in Australia?

[Zixinus]

I hardly watch SG-1, to be fair, but one of the few things I know about the show is that in the early years it was famous for having every planet look pretty much identical. This is also a show where most planets, with good reason, are populated with ordinary human beings.

To be fair, they did give an excuse: when the Goa'uld (don't really give a shit anymore about the spelling) or the angels-of-the-(s)newage-wannabes got a planet, they terraformed it to BE pretty much identical. Of course you would expect more varied environments, fauna and the like but at least they tried.

[NecronLord]

That's not entirely true, by the way. Aside from the Vancouver ones, there's lots of bits with desert. Not as many, but still, they tried to throw some variety in there.


And try this on for size: The goa'uld evolved in a Vancouver climate. Therefore, they moved stargates on worlds they controlled and set up settlements of slaves in enviroments that most pleased their senses.

[Patrick Degan]

That's not entirely true, by the way. Aside from the Vancouver ones, there's lots of bits with desert. Not as many, but still, they tried to throw some variety in there.


And try this on for size: The goa'uld evolved in a Vancouver climate. Therefore, they moved stargates on worlds they controlled and set up settlements of slaves in enviroments that most pleased their senses.

So in the G'oald Empire, every world is Canada.

[Rye]

Episode names and specific examples are lost in nostalgia, I'm afraid. Farscape did it, anyway, that's definitely who they should be copying for space-based story.

That's the annoying advantage America usually has over the UK, they've got more varied environments. There's a reason a lot of alien planets in old who looked suspiciously like a stone quarry most of the time.

True (though, as noted, it was done in Australia, even when set in Florida), but Britain's got varied locations if you try; the dunes at Southport could be a desert or beach, slag heaps could be the remnants after an alien bombardment, the lake district for some sort of Tolkien related stuff, various mountains and thick, scary forests in Scotland and Wales, lots of urban areas and the occasional war bunker, plus Pinewood studios and CGI.

[Zixinus]

True (though, as noted, it was done in Australia, even when set in Florida), but Britain's got varied locations if you try; the dunes at Southport could be a desert or beach, slag heaps could be the remnants after an alien bombardment, the lake district for some sort of Tolkien related stuff, various mountains and thick, scary forests in Scotland and Wales, lots of urban areas and the occasional war bunker, plus Pinewood studios and CGI.

I am pretty sure you could find any place to be an alien environment. The issue is money.

[NecronLord]

So in the G'oald Empire, every world is Canada.

Of course not. The goa'uld just habitually pick up the stargate and move it to the most canadian part of the planet.

[Rye]

I am pretty sure you could find any place to be an alien environment. The issue is money.

I know. That's why I'm pointing out areas that would be comparatively easy to turn into alien environments with a few camera filters and colour changes in the final edit along with the CGI they're routinely using at the moment.

[Lord Woodlouse]

Aye, I guess so. Messaline didn't actually look too bad, from what little we saw of it. I would like to see them have a go at doing a truly alien planet populated entirely by aliens sometime. Though I still disagree with the notion that's been floating around that alien planets = great storywriting.

[Patrick Degan]

Though I still disagree with the notion that's been floating around that alien planets = great storywriting.

In and of itself, it isn't. But it does broaden the scope of the series —particularly since a time/space traveler should be doing something beyond just poking around Earth history.

[Rye]

Aye, I guess so. Messaline didn't actually look too bad, from what little we saw of it. I would like to see them have a go at doing a truly alien planet populated entirely by aliens sometime. Though I still disagree with the notion that's been floating around that alien planets = great storywriting.

"I have a time machine that can go anywhere in the universe."

"Hey, have you ever been to London? What better place to situate a story about aliens and the wider universe where the only limits are your imagination and the family audience?"

"Well, I do have this time machine that can go anywhere in the universe..."

"That alien knocked over the London Eye! Wooooo!"

"Time machine? Universe?"

*makes laser and explosion sounds*

[Big Orange]

And BO, everyone here has long since accepted that Davies is a shit writer. His magnum opus is brining the series back to prominence after the BBC consigned it to a horrible death with that horrid US TV movie that scars McGann's career to this day. The man has had his 15 minutes, but now it's time for an actualy writer, not a visionary with a dream, to, y'know, write.

I don't think 'everyone' thinks RTD is a consistently shit writer, merely only online cliques of keyboard warriors with their own agenda and narrow tastes, but the general popular opinion (even here) is that Davies is a generally competent writer that varies a lot in story output quality ("The End of the World" was actually very good, "New Earth" was bland on hindsight, while "Utopia", to me, was almost as enjoyable as "Blink" and that is something) and RTD is geared more towards the ethos of fun Summer blockbusters, while Moffat veers towards high concept sci-fi tinged with gothic horror, with a generally tighter narrative (so it sells better with the nitpickers who don't like being patronised).

Also going against the grain here I think Season Four has been more consistently decent than Season Two and Three, with Moffat's two parter another huge critical hit and RTD hopefully won't run out of steam with the last few episodes (I'm most looking forward to "Midnight"). "The Fires of Pompeii" and "Silence in the Library" have been the most outstanding episodes so far, while the show is begining to feel increasingly less cosmically provincial than it was in the first two (albiet very good) seasons and I hope this trend grows with the "Specials" next year and Moffat's first season in '10.

Anyway I don't get the heckling about Doctor Who stewardship passing from good hands to better hands, with Moffat taking over Who not a futile excercise of rearranging the deckchairs onboard the H.M.S Titantic (like hiring Manny Cotto for Enterprise was for example) and Doctor Who is almost guaranteed of still being a huge success.

[Patrick Degan]

Though I still disagree with the notion that's been floating around that alien planets = great storywriting.

In and of itself, it isn't. But it does broaden the scope of the series —particularly since a time/space traveler should be doing something beyond just poking around Earth history.

To expand upon this point a bit: take as example "The Underworld" from Tom Baker's 4th season. In and of itself it was a so-so Bob Baker/Dave Martin pastiche on the legend of Jason and the Argonauts. But watching it for the first time I found evocative the idea that the TARDIS was out beyond the edge of known space, so far out that space was virtually empty. You couldn't even tell when in time the Doctor and Leela were and that sense of utter isolation really helped sell that story. Worked even better for "The Planet Of Evil". You really get the idea that the TARDIS can go anywhere, anywhen, and you're out there with them. Setting can do a lot to create the mood a writer wants the viewer to experience, such as with "Utopia" when the TARDIS took the Doctor, Martha, and Jack to the year 100 trillion and to one of the last habitable planets in existence.

That's when you get sold on the idea that we're watching the adventures of a traveler in time and space, a "professor of a far wider academy, of which human nature is only a small part".

[Big Orange]

RTD initially had most episodes on Earth due to him being wary of blowing the production budget and not presenting an alien world convincingly enough, it is also a sound ploy to not alienate the casual TV viewer who probably can't stand Farscape or Star Trek by setting most episodes in places the said casual TV viewer can relate to, as patronizing as it sounds (he thought faux Japan in the second season of Heroes was laughable and he wanted to avoid that). But far less parochial stories are increasingly growing in number, since the current two parter took place in a Library roughly the size of Earth and "Midnight" is going to take place on a resort planet that looks very, very exotic.

And for those of you who felt "Last of the Time Lords" was a washout, we've got a novel coming up about Martha's lost year wandering about a ruined Earth under the rule of the Master unimaginatively called The Story of Martha (lets hope this book explains the year long events onboard the Valiant, how the relationship between Lucy and the Master violently deterioted, how Martha's family coped, why the Master's human guards changed sides and an insight into the Doctor's mind).

[Rye]

If the casual viewer is watching Doctor Who and can't grasp alien planets, they should change the fucking channel. Jesus Christ.

[Patrick Degan]

RTD initially had most episodes on Earth due to him being wary of blowing the production budget and not presenting an alien world convincingly enough, it is also a sound ploy to not alienate the casual TV viewer who probably can't stand Farscape or Star Trek by setting most episodes in places the said casual TV viewer can relate to, as patronizing as it sounds (he thought faux Japan in the second season of Heroes was laughable and he wanted to avoid that). But far less parochial stories are increasingly growing in number, since the current two parter took place in a Library roughly the size of Earth and "Midnight" is going to take place on a resort planet that looks very, very exotic.

What's so difficult about an alien planet setting? "The End Of The World", "The Long Game" and "Bad Wolf" could as easily have been on alien worlds instead of Earth satellites, and Doctor Who has never been a programme which set background detail as superior in consideration to a good script. A good cast combined with good writing is enough to divert people from the fact that your "alien world" is actually a quarry in South Wales and a studio set or two. No, I'm afraid RTD's argument here doesn't really obtain. Especially as Babylon 5 did alien worlds on the thinnest of budgets and carried itself through its writing.

And for those of you who felt "Last of the Time Lords" was a washout, we've got a novel coming up about Martha's lost year wandering about a ruined Earth under the rule of the Master unimaginatively called The Story of Martha (lets hope this book explains the year long events onboard the Valiant, how the relationship between Lucy and the Master violently deterioted, how Martha's family coped, why the Master's human guards changed sides and an insight into the Doctor's mind).

If it requires an after-the-fact tie-in novel to flesh out some of the details which should have been done in the actual series, then the LOTL trilogy was a washout. Follow-up novels don't erase that.