U,K, to outlaw 'extreme' porn

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Invictus ChiKen
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U,K, to outlaw 'extreme' porn

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Link



On a fetish message board I am posting to this has caused several UK members to quit.
By Chris Summers
BBC News

A bill outlawing the possession of "extreme pornography" is set to become law next week. But many fear it has been rushed through and will criminalise innocent people with a harmless taste for unconventional sex.

Five years ago Jane Longhurst, a teacher from Brighton, was murdered. It later emerged her killer had been compulsively accessing websites such as Club Dead and Rape Action, which contained images of women being abused and violated.

When Graham Coutts was jailed for life Jane Longhurst's mother, Liz, began a campaign to ban the possession of such images.

Supported by her local MP, Martin Salter, she found a listening ear in then home secretary, David Blunkett, who agreed to introduce legislation to ban the possession of "violent and extreme pornography".

This was eventually included in the Criminal Justice and Immigration Bill, which gets its final reading this week and will get Royal Assent on 8 May.

Until now pornographers, rather than consumers, have needed to operate within the confines of the 1959 Obscene Publications Act (OPA). While this law will remain, the new act is designed to reflect the realities of the internet age, when pornographic images may be hosted on websites outside the UK.

Under the new rules, criminal responsibility shifts from the producer - who is responsible under the OPA - to the consumer.

But campaigners say the new law risks criminalising thousands of people who use violent pornographic images as part of consensual sexual relationships.

People like Helen, who by day works in an office in the Midlands, and enjoys being sexually submissive and occasionally watching pornography, portrayed by actors, which could be banned under the new legislation.
She feels the new law is an over-reaction to the Longhurst case.

"Mrs Longhurst sees this man having done this to her daughter and she wants something to blame and rather than blame this psychotic man she wants to change the law but she doesn't really understand the situation," says Helen.

"Do you ban alcohol just because some people are alcoholics?"

She has an ally in Baroness Miller of Chilthorne Domer, a Liberal Democrat peer who has fought to have the legislation amended.

"Obviously anything that leads to violence against women has to be taken very seriously," says Baroness Miller. "But you have to be very careful about the definition of 'extreme pornography' and they have not nearly been careful enough."

She has suggested the new act adopt the legal test set out in the OPA, which bans images which "tend to deprave and corrupt".

But the government has sought to broaden the definition and the bill includes phrases such as "an act which threatens or appears to threaten a person's life".

Speaking from her home in Berkshire, Mrs Longhurst acknowledges that libertarians see her as "a horrible killjoy".

I'M NOT DOING ANYTHING WRONG
A lot of people would like to march and demonstrate against this law but if you stick your head above the parapet you are going to get yourself in the firing line
Helen defends extreme porn
Click here to read more
"I'm not. I do not approve of this stuff but there is room for all sorts of different people. But anything which is going to cause damage to other people needs to be stopped."

To those who fear the legislation might criminalise people who use violent pornography as a harmless sex aid, she responds with a blunt "hard luck".

"There is no reason for this stuff. I can't see why people need to see it. People say what about our human rights but where are Jane's human rights?"

A spanking exhibition at Amora sex museum in London
What is considered obscene has changed over the years

Recently, the much-publicised rompings of Formula 1 boss Max Mosley have served as a reminder that kinky sex is found in all walks of society.

And just as Mr Mosley is fighting the expose of his antics, calling it an invasion of private life, so Baroness Miller says the new law also threatens people's privacy.

"The government is effectively walking into people's bedrooms and saying you can't do this. It's a form of thought police."

She says there's a danger of "criminalising kinkiness" and fears the legislation has been rushed through Parliament without proper debate because it is a small part of a wider bill.

Deborah Hyde, of Backlash, an umbrella group of anti-censorship and alternative sexuality pressure groups, has similar concerns.


Having engaged in it consensually would not be a crime, but to have a photograph of it in one's possession would be a crime. That does not seem to make sense to me
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"How many tens or hundreds or thousands of people are going to be dragged into a police station, have their homes turned upside down, their computers stolen and their neighbours suspecting them of all sorts?"

Such "victims" won't feel able to fight the case and "will take a caution, before there are enough test cases to prove that this law is unnecessary and unworkable".

Another opponent of the new law is Edward Garnier, an MP and part-time judge, who questioned the clause when it was debated in the Commons.

"My primary concern is the vagueness of the offence," says Mr Garnier. "It was very subjective and it would not be clear to me how anybody would know if an offence had been committed."

But the Ministry of Justice is unrepentant, saying the sort of images it is seeking to outlaw are out of place in modern-day Britain.

"Pornographic material which depicts necrophilia, bestiality or violence that is life threatening or likely to result in serious injury to the anus, breasts or genitals has no place in a modern society and should not be tolerated," says a spokeswoman for the ministry.
Graham Coutts
Graham Coutts, who killed Jane Longhurst after viewing extreme pornography

Yet opponents have also seized on what they see as an anomaly in the new law, noted by Lord Wallace of Tankerness during last week's debate in the House of Lords.

"If no sexual offence is being committed it seems very odd indeed that there should be an offence for having an image of something which was not an offence," he said.

With that partly in mind, the government is tabling an amendment that would allow couples to keep pictures of themselves engaged in consensual acts - but not to distribute them. Lord Hunt, who has charge of the bill in the Lords, admits it is being rushed through to meet a deadline. But he denies the law has not been thoroughly considered and maintains it will only affect images that are "grossly offensive and disgusting".
The new law defines extreme as:
An act which threatens or appears to threaten a person's life (A major issue as it is a fantasy kidnap group. You know super heroines in peril type of deal)

An act which results in or appears to result in serious injury to a person's anus, breasts or genitals (This is another one that worries people what well define serious injury?)

An act which involves or appears to involve sexual interference with a human corpse

A person performing or appearing to perform an act of intercourse or oral sex with an animal
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Post by Darth Wong »

So when do they plan to outlaw all action movies, where people get killed and/or threatened with death on a routine basis? The average person will see thousands of televised homicides by the time he's an adult; this is assumed to cause no harm, but the possession of a single illicit violent porn image will?

Having said that, I must admit I won't shed a tear if violent porn is banned. I agree that it's disgusting and that anyone who derives sexual pleasure from depiction of pain or mutilation (simulated or not) is probably fucked in the head. To be honest, I would ideally want surveillance on such people. But the rationale behind this new law is a joke, and people who like it shouldn't have to provide a "reason" why it is allowed. The people who want to ban it should have to provide scientifically sound evidence that it causes material harm, not just gut-instinct causal scenarios. Anyone who's sufficiently fucked up that he derives sexual pleasure from depictions of pain and suffering will not suddenly become well if this material is banned.
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Post by Glimmervoid »

Dose this law just effect Pictures and Videos or dose it effect stuff like pornographic literature; either stories containing sex or comics and such like?

Any way I agree with Lord Wallace of Tankerness:
"If no sexual offence is being committed it seems very odd indeed that there should be an offence for having an image of something which was not an offence," he said.
Either something should be illegal to do in which case you should neither be able to do it or film it, or it should be legal and you should be able to film it however you want.
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Post by DaveJB »

Looks like this is one of those of those laws where there's going to have to be half a dozen trials and precedents set before it actually means anything. I can see why the type of violent porn that Mike's talking about should be banned under this law, but frankly I think that any trials involving someone being arrested for having pictures of a geek being raped by a 7ft. tall cat-woman on their hard drive will likely get laughed out of court.
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Post by Illuminatus Primus »

Darth Wong wrote:So when do they plan to outlaw all action movies, where people get killed and/or threatened with death on a routine basis? The average person will see thousands of televised homicides by the time he's an adult; this is assumed to cause no harm, but the possession of a single illicit violent porn image will?

Having said that, I must admit I won't shed a tear if violent porn is banned. I agree that it's disgusting and that anyone who derives sexual pleasure from depiction of pain or mutilation (simulated or not) is probably fucked in the head. To be honest, I would ideally want surveillance on such people. But the rationale behind this new law is a joke, and people who like it shouldn't have to provide a "reason" why it is allowed. The people who want to ban it should have to provide scientifically sound evidence that it causes material harm, not just gut-instinct causal scenarios. Anyone who's sufficiently fucked up that he derives sexual pleasure from depictions of pain and suffering will not suddenly become well if this material is banned.
I feel its more likely that cut off from their low-level satisfaction that they will become more frustrated and pathological and more likely to rape. Is it any coincidence that legal prostitution states have less sexual assault than the U.S. typically? These people aren't going to stop being fucked in the head or have psychosexual issues. I'd rather they worked it out with fantasies, porn, and regulated prostitution than hiding in cabal-like circles like child abusers and attacking people.
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Post by Adrian Laguna »

IP, that reminds me of this paper.

It's abstract is, " The incidence of rape in the United States has declined 85% in the past 25 years while access to pornography has become freely available to teenagers and adults. The Nixon and Reagan Commissions tried to show that exposure to pornographic materials produced social violence. The reverse may be true: that pornography has reduced social violence."
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Post by Illuminatus Primus »

Hm, might it be that with hordes of sexually repressed, religiously regulated young men, especially in times or places of little to no economic activity experience increased rates of sex crime? No, that West Texas is on a slope that heads toward Saudi Arabia and Pakistan is just unthinkable.
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Post by Dartzap »

This is the type of case that if it was sent court, the judge would probably have to refer to the debates that occured in the Commons so that they can understand what activties were actually intended to prevented by it. rather than have to pull an misinterpretation out of thin air.
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Post by Spyder »

For some reason I thought this thread was going to be about banning porn involving sky diving and motorbike stunts, maybe bungee jumping.
:D
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Post by Kon_El »

"There is no reason for this stuff. I can't see why people need to see it. People say what about our human rights but where are Jane's human rights?"
1. Just because one person can't see why anyone else would want something is not a reason to ban it.

2. Jane has no rights. She is dead.
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Post by DaveJB »

Dartzap wrote:This is the type of case that if it was sent court, the judge would probably have to refer to the debates that occured in the Commons so that they can understand what activties were actually intended to prevented by it. rather than have to pull an misinterpretation out of thin air.
Trouble is, there was no debate on this as far as I can tell - it was attached to an almost totally different bill, which in fact mostly covered immigration, while updating a few older pornography laws at the same time.

Exactly how this turns out is going to depend on the first few trials under this law. If it's just used for banning rape and torture porn, then fine, I don't think it'll be controversial. If on the other hand it starts being used to outlaw any type of even vaguely kinky porn, then I can see us heading into an age of renewed sexual repression - at least until MPs start feeling the pressure and amend the law.
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Post by The Yosemite Bear »

how about the large amount of "Vampire kink"?

you know the most common female kink being the Vampire attack one.

And last time I checked the fictional depiction of being drained of precious life giving blood, by an immortal BDSM master does count as death or potential harm.
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Post by Superman »

I don't know how much is sent to the UK, but Japan's porn industry is going to take a hit in sales.
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Post by Warsie »

Superman wrote:I don't know how much is sent to the UK, but Japan's porn industry is going to take a hit in sales.
IIRC, isn't most of the hentai and the like not licensed in the UK and normally bootlegged anyway? Or that much of it is doujins anyway? I won't see how they'd enforce the law, other than blocking sites and that'll be easily complained about.
DaveJB wrote:frankly I think that any trials involving someone being arrested for having pictures of a geek being raped by a 7ft. tall cat-woman on their hard drive will likely get laughed out of court.
lol yah. The UK would be introduced to Rule 34 in earnest.
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Post by Warsie »

UPDATE: Looks like the UK wants to attack Loliconand Shotacon

http://www.ukanime.com/template2.php?pa ... .php&p=532

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/05/28 ... _pictures/

Oh wow....
At the consultation stage for this law, some Police Forces cited manga as material they would like outlawed. Manga is an essentially Japanese art form, which can cover some quite adult themes. “Tentacle porn” and abduction by aliens are common. Crucially some of the images include individuals whose age is indeterminate or seriously young. As Home Secretary, John Reid expressed his outrage that manga and similar aterial was not illegal.
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Post by Alyrium Denryle »

Illuminatus Primus wrote:
Darth Wong wrote:So when do they plan to outlaw all action movies, where people get killed and/or threatened with death on a routine basis? The average person will see thousands of televised homicides by the time he's an adult; this is assumed to cause no harm, but the possession of a single illicit violent porn image will?

Having said that, I must admit I won't shed a tear if violent porn is banned. I agree that it's disgusting and that anyone who derives sexual pleasure from depiction of pain or mutilation (simulated or not) is probably fucked in the head. To be honest, I would ideally want surveillance on such people. But the rationale behind this new law is a joke, and people who like it shouldn't have to provide a "reason" why it is allowed. The people who want to ban it should have to provide scientifically sound evidence that it causes material harm, not just gut-instinct causal scenarios. Anyone who's sufficiently fucked up that he derives sexual pleasure from depictions of pain and suffering will not suddenly become well if this material is banned.
I feel its more likely that cut off from their low-level satisfaction that they will become more frustrated and pathological and more likely to rape. Is it any coincidence that legal prostitution states have less sexual assault than the U.S. typically? These people aren't going to stop being fucked in the head or have psychosexual issues. I'd rather they worked it out with fantasies, porn, and regulated prostitution than hiding in cabal-like circles like child abusers and attacking people.
I am going to play devils advocate here. There is actually little evidence for the cathartic effect of pornography when it comes to violent action. If it is there, it is small and plays little role rates of sexual violence. The larger factors are probably more broad social factors such as sex education, poverty, and the way men in various societies view women. There are also differences in reporting methodology, but I am not sure how large those effects on the stats are.

Ex. There is no difference in our legal code, or crime stats between what we would call date rape, and violent rape. Date rape being far more common and is the result of faulty perceptions of the rights of women, consent issues etc. It is indicative of larger social problems. Access to porn would probably have little effect on these sorts of rapes.


Violent rape is usually the result of other criminal activities (violent gang-rape of a rival gang member anyone?) or frankly, psychosis, and is proximately caused by a need for power and control, the need to victimize, and other pathological mental processes. These are the types of rape that you would need to look at in order to really determine whether pornography has any effect on them. But because they probably make up a relatively small portion of rapes, and may even have similar ultimate causes (barring evolution, the ultimate ultimate cause) as the non-violent ones (other criminal activities being the result of poverty, etc)


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Post by Ohma »

The problem is still that the sort of people that this law is supposed to protect society from (somehow) aren't somehow stopped from being pederasts or rapists just by being prevented from getting legal access to extreme porn. All it really does is make criminals of people who just happen to have creepy fetishes.
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Post by Kronos »

Isn't Fchan hosted in the UK? If so, this might be a good thing, IMHO.
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Post by CaptainChewbacca »

What if they just called it 'ultraporn' and set the minimum age to 80?
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Post by KlavoHunter »

Kronos wrote:Isn't Fchan hosted in the UK? If so, this might be a good thing, IMHO.
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Post by Warsie »

Kronos wrote:Isn't Fchan hosted in the UK? If so, this might be a good thing, IMHO.
Fchan has a .us domain based off Wikifur. Also good job with the "Yiff in hell Furfags" joke you did there.

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