SD.net's World OOC/Discussion thread MK III

[DarthShady]

Ok, Stas. I am Turning to socialism. I will need your help with that.

Bear, i hope you come in peace.

[Coyote]

But whatever you do, Shady, remember-- don't download MP3s, because when you do that...



...you're downloading Communism!

[The Yosemite Bear]

yes, PAX IMPERIA, actually not that bad, the BR is hamstringed from doing too much because they are Lazy and disfunctional. the whole declaration of war was because the senate realized I was away on vacation, and tried to make a power grab...

no, you just got several flying boats and GEVs beaching and trying to set up a perrimeter for airships to offload main supplies. So Technically our current wartime action against you has been to send our Military Engineers corps to build things.

[DarthShady]

Coyote, mang that's an awesome picture.

I have been thinking, my military rebelled against me. I can't allow that to happen again, so i am gonna reorganize it. I think i might include commissars who have the authority to shoot deserters and stuff like that.

Bear, thats good to hear. There are a lot of things that need rebuilding.

[The Yosemite Bear]

BTW the first thing they will probably build is a very large Air and sea port for military use. AKA somehwhere to land my Oversized airships, and Superheavy cargo lifters, security perimeter, etc. oh, and now that your airforce is toast how are you for Helos? I've got some UH4s comming out of my ears, I manufacture Hughes versions of the Sea King, Blackhawk, Commanche Longbow, and fictional Helos as well (Blue Thunder police choppers). Also our latest GEV troop carriers have a lot pf cross compatability with our Hughes Apaches (historically Hughes did build this helo for the us government)

Also to FUN, we've got long range Hughes Air to Air missiles as well, the above mentioned GEVs and helos.

Flying Boat seaplanes/light container ships, Airships, Hughes "Loadmaster" equivalents, and are currently making a new version of the "Spruce Goose" using newer technologies, and aluminum instead of teak. Hydrofoil, flying boat/super heavy cargo lifter with 8 jet engines....

[Shroom Man 777]

Shady, you need to purge your military command structure. Utterly.

And the commissars, yes. And perhaps institute yourself as a key religious figure. A God Emperor.

Goddamn, MOAR! OMSK-influence in the FUN!

I'm gonna have to saturate you with Goddamn Capitalism!

EDIT:

Bear, Shroomania (MacMillan) would like to work with your Spruce Goose project. Shroomania's sister ship shall be... the Spruce Moose!

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

Low altitude insertion? Like, flying low to blow crap up? or flying low to insert soldiers? (?!)

Fly low to evade radar. Typically you might want to have some aircraft to carry radar jammers to jam enemy SAM radars as well. Some anti-radiation missiles would be nice.

[DarthShady]

Bear i am interested in your helos, but i have to bring my country back to normal operation first. As for the base, fell free to build whatever you need. And you can count on my loyalist troops to help you find that crashed airship of yours.

Shady, you need to purge your military command structure. Utterly.

I will, there will be many executions soon.

And the commissars, yes. And perhaps institute yourself as a key religious figure. A God Emperor.

That i will do.

Goddamn, MOAR! OMSK-influence in the FUN!

I'm gonna have to saturate you with Goddamn Capitalism!

I can't help it if i'm turning red.

[Shroom Man 777]

Wait, is Bear asking for admittance to the FUN?

YEEEEHAAAAAW! We got an Imperium! WOOHOO!!!

Count yourself in, Bear! As soon as we finish mopping up the Shadow badguys, we'll have the acceptance party! Aboard the Hindenburg!

[phongn]

Ok, Stas. I am Turning to socialism. I will need your help with that.

Nooo Issue no-bid contracts for reconstruction instead!

[K. A. Pital]

Nooo

Such is the fate of poor and wartorn nations you should know and learn from real history shouldn't you

[Mr Bean]

Wait, I must've missed something. When did we start posturing in your waters?

Lonestar and Beowulf like to conduct exercise right off the 22 mile limit of my country. They've not done any in awhile. Remember, I hold the Mess responsible for any actions any one member undertakes. Don't tell me the same group that took Sauron down in Middle Earth and had a frag list ready to go within two hours of our arrival in the last giant-what if can't keep each other in line. Thus what Beowulf and Lonestar do, is see as being if not approved of, at least done with the blessing of the rest of the Mess.
They've

On another note, since the conference died down of its own accord and we still have that weird time slowdown thing, and you haven't said anything otherwise, what you PMed about is going to take place soon.

I've been working fourteen hours days, so I've not had much time to post to the thread, something I somewhat-correcting now.

One Last note

@General Deathdealer
See the following thread here for why your coil gun is impratciule and overstated, Wrym and Starglider caught two or three math errors you made I did not which demonstrate that your gun must be a minimum of 500 meters long and use 50 GW of eletrical energy in order to accelerate a one pound projectile to 10km/sec..

To put this in perspective you need a dedicated nuclear power-plant just to fire the sucker and it's five American football fields in length.

Yeah.... I'm calling shenanigans on that. Sure you could build the thing, and power the thing(Hooking it into the power grid is not going to cut it when you need 50 GW's worth of juice, either it's going to take days to charge(Based on the best long distance wires being only to transmit 1.4 MWH, meaning a single set of high tension power lines require 1488 days to transfer the power. Even if you built ten identical sets you'd need 148 days.

So the thing has to be built next to a powerplant, your typical high capacity Nuclear plant can produce up to 2 GW Per Hour. Meaning even with a Nuclear power plant doing nothing but transferring power, your still talking a full day between shots.


And this all leads in to the explanation of why we don't have man-portable Gauss Cannons, and why the Navy is building Rail-guns, rather than coil guns. We simply don't have the power generation or material science possible yet to use the principle as a weapon.

[General Deathdealer]

So I guess the people that have built these gauss guns in labratories are full of shit then? I also guess that every single conversion website out there is wrong when it says that 1 watt is equal to 1 joule. Fine. I will retcon the Hyper Velocity Gun.

[phongn]

So I guess the people that have built these gauss guns in laboratories are full of shit then?

Those are small-scale devices. What you're proposing is enormous in scale.

I also guess that every single conversion website out there is wrong when it says that 1 watt is equal to 1 joule. Fine. I will retcon the Hyper Velocity Gun.

Yes, they are wrong. 1 W = 1 J/sec.

[Lonestar]

Lonestar and Beowulf like to conduct exercise right off the 22 mile limit of my country. They've not done any in awhile.

Yeah, CROSSHAIRS '08, outside of your territorial waters, off the NorthEAST Coast, which happens to brush up at a corner where Tian Xia and the LSR's waters meet.

So, nya.


EDIT: NORTHEAST Coast, duh.

[Mr Bean]

So I guess the people that have built these gauss guns in labratories are full of shit then? I also guess that every single conversion website out there is wrong when it says that 1 watt is equal to 1 joule. Fine. I will retcon the Hyper Velocity Gun.

"Mr. Bean, the force between two current carrying wires shouldn't have any effect on that coilgun. However, General Deathdealer's math is wrong. This math should be correct to within an order of magnitude:

First, using the output power given (it's wrong, but I'll get to that later):

The object's final kinetic energy is K = 1/2*m*v^2 = .5*(.5 kg)*(10 km/s)^2 ~ 2.5E7 J. With our given power output, this implies an acceleration time of Pt = W = K; t = K/P = 2.5E7 J/1.2E6 W ~ 20 s. Now, to find the distance over which the energy will be transmitted.

Pdt = dW = Fdx; W = Pt = Fx = max. Now, here's a step which is blatantly false for a constant power input, but will still keep us within an order of magnitude: that our acceleration is constant. In reality, it will decrease over time for constant power. Continuing, Pt = m(x/t^2)x; x = sqrt(Pt^3/m) = sqrt(1.2E6 W * (20 s)^3/.5 kg) ~ 1.5E5 m. In other words, we need our projectile to accelerate over about 150 km, and thus our coil must be about that long on top of that to generate enough of a field gradient to accelerate the projectile. So, the entire system is over 300 km long, or on the same length scale as the Death Star.

However, this estimate is incorrect, as General Deathdealer messed up a bit on his math. Here is the corrected version:

We know that our projectile is 100 times more massive than a small one, goes 80 times as fast as a small one, and has the same efficiency. We also know the amount of energy output by the small one. We want the power output of the larger system. Our scaling:

Since the large projectile has 100 times the mass and 80 times the velocity of the small one, it has 100 * 80^2 = 160,000 times the small object's kinetic energy. Since I am assuming we want these guns to fire in the same amount of time, the power should scale with the kinetic energy, so it should be 160,000 times the power input of the small one. Now, in his output/input calculations, GD didn't check his units, and ended up with grams * Joules, which are not Watts. To correct this, we must wither specify a time in which the gun is fired or a power output; I will say that the gun fires in .01 s. Now, we repeat our calculations, with a twist or two:

Pt = K; P = K/t = 2.5E7 J/.01 s = 2.5E9 W
Pt = Fx = max = mx^2/t^2
x = sqrt(Pt^3/m) = sqrt(2.5E9 W * (.01 s)^3/.5 kg) ~ 2.5E2 m.

This length requirement is much more reasonable, as it only requires a system that is about 500 meters long, but it requires a power input 2.5E9 W * 20 ~ 50 GW. This is about 3 orders of magnitude higher than the original supposed input. To make a system with the same kinetic energy output on the 50-100 meter length scale, the power requirements are even higher, but not impossible with room-temperature superconductor and sufficiently advanced capacitors. However, these may break the limits of the STGOD.

[General Deathdealer]

Yes, they are wrong. 1 W = 1 J/sec.

Who is wrong the conversion sites or the people that Bean is quoting? What you said above is what I was stating 1 watt/sec = 1 joule/sec.

[PeZook]

Who is wrong the conversion sites or the people that Bean is quoting? What you said above is what I was stating 1 watt/sec = 1 joule/sec.

Uh, dude?

1 watt/sec = 1 joule / sec^2

10 watts of power for one second = 10 joules of energy

10 watts of power for two seconds = 20 joules of energy

[Coyote]

Wait, I must've missed something. When did we start posturing in your waters?

Lonestar and Beowulf like to conduct exercise right off the 22 mile limit of my country. They've not done any in awhile. Remember, I hold the Mess responsible for any actions any one member undertakes. Don't tell me the same group that took Sauron down in Middle Earth and had a frag list ready to go within two hours of our arrival in the last giant-what if can't keep each other in line. Thus what Beowulf and Lonestar do, is see as being if not approved of, at least done with the blessing of the rest of the Mess.

You know there's nothing stopping the OMSK from holding exercises 22 miles off the coast of anyone else's shores... if you have a problem with the territorial limit, then we can discuss having it expanded.

As for the other stuff, well-- taking apart a melee-based Medieval army of halfwits isn't a challenge, and face it, that fraglist wrote itself. I'm able to differentiate between what one OMSK member does from the other; I don't hold Stas and the RT responsible for double-dealing with Saddamistan... I also don't consider the recent meltdown in the Shadow Empire to be a conspiracy of the entire FUN.

Dat's crazy talk, 'dere.

[Mr Bean]

You know there's nothing stopping the OMSK from holding exercises 22 miles off the coast of anyone else's shores... if you have a problem with the territorial limit, then we can discuss having it expanded.

This is both to you and Lonestar, but the way I read Crosshair 08 was that the force was practicing off the cost of the UKB between Tian Xia and the Lonestar Republic as an explicit show of force to my active support of a know... well professed Genocidal Warmonger. My thinking was, there's a whole ton of open ocean to use for exercises. And it was the diplomatic equivalent of holding rifle drills in the street outside someone's house rather than in a big empty field nearby.

If I miss-read the post then it becomes even less of a point since I already made the point it was not going on anymore, it it never went on to begin with then double positive it's not happening.

I don't hold Stas and the RT responsible for double-dealing with Saddamistan... I also don't consider the recent meltdown in the Shadow Empire to be a conspiracy of the entire FUN.

There's a difference as I know the Mess maintains a thread to discuss this STGOD, one I've refrained from reading since page 5. (Quick check it's at 503 posts and over 3000 views)

There is no such private FUN or OMSK planning threads, and speaking of Stas, considering he might have swung a new OMSK partner and turned the Shadow Empire into a RT client state you could almost it had been an OMSK plan(Or at least a Stas conspiracy) for it to end up this way.

[Coyote]

I'm surprised one hasn't started in the HAB, really. I can refrain from peeking, too. It would be handy, after all.

[Mr Bean]

I'm surprised one hasn't started in the HAB, really. I can refrain from peeking, too. It would be handy, after all.

One in the HAB could work, since it's one of two forums I can't see(Note, can't see period, I don't post in a dozen private forums like GALE or Knights Astrum Clades.

(The other forum for those who are wondering is SOS(Female only) forum)

[Coyote]

I'm surprised one hasn't started in the HAB, really. I can refrain from peeking, too. It would be handy, after all.

One in the HAB could work, since it's one of two forums I can't see

Oh, sorry-- I was thinking that an OMSK (with the option for Saddam) planning thread could be made in HAB for you guys. I forgot you weren't in HAB.

[RogueIce]

There's a difference as I know the Mess maintains a thread to discuss this STGOD, one I've refrained from reading since page 5. (Quick check it's at 503 posts and over 3000 views)

There is no such private FUN or OMSK planning threads, and speaking of Stas, considering he might have swung a new OMSK partner and turned the Shadow Empire into a RT client state you could almost it had been an OMSK plan(Or at least a Stas conspiracy) for it to end up this way.

That's not really that big a deal. It's not like we hold a gun to Lonestar and Beowulf's heads and say "hey do this" or "don't do that" or anything. It actually started before this even really turned into an STGOD and anything serious happened (or we'd consider your first post in there a war threat, buddy).

So while we do make an effort at a common goal and such, we can't exactly rigidly enforce anything, either. And keep in mind, 2008 was before we had the structure in place that we do now. Back then, the MESS was basically a mutual defense and military aid pact. We're hardly one sovereign bloc with one foreign policy now, much less back in the first year of the STGOD. Otherwise, we'd all have cut ties to the UKB.

[Beowulf]

Who is wrong the conversion sites or the people that Bean is quoting? What you said above is what I was stating 1 watt/sec = 1 joule/sec.

Uh, dude?

1 watt/sec = 1 joule / sec^2

10 watts of power for one second = 10 joules of energy

10 watts of power for two seconds = 20 joules of energy

Which is why Bean is still wrong. The input energy is approximately 500 MJ, from the calculations shown by Bean done by someone else. A 2GW plant can supply that much in 1/4 second. Even if you increase the mass to 10 lbs, you still have a refire rate measured in seconds, not days.