SD.net's World OOC/Discussion thread MK III

[PeZook]

You need $1.3 billion? Space funding is cut for next year, so I could help you.

I need 1.785 billion in total, but I can finance 1/4 of that myself this year.

So any amount would help, really. At my current funding capacity, the batallion won't be ready for operation for another four years. The world could be a glowing wasteland by then

I'll try to squeeze some funding towards the joint FUN space program this year, too.

How about those MIGs?

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

Did Shep just buy all the carriers from Bean? *grumbles*

No, no sales of my drawn down fleet will be done until after the first of the year.

However Sheppard has already offered for both carriers, he of course only wants the stripped down ships(Which gives me a ton of spare t keep Valor in tip top shape) but at a lessor price. Should anyone fall to buy the fully running carriers I'll take his lessor offer.

I might consider a carrier, to be paid next year, for the price you offered, unstripped.

What type of carriers are these?

[Mr Bean]

I might consider a carrier, to be paid next year, for the price you offered, unstripped.

What type of carriers are these?

Nimitz fully upgraded, well maintained and and equipped.

[Shroom Man 777]

I think the FUN could use one of them.

PeZook, do you want any F-18s? Each one is just $20 million dollars!

[K. A. Pital]

How about those MIGs?

So, 12 or 24 MiG-29. The Ministry of Proliferation accepts the order

I don't think anyone has been nuked yet, right?

Nop.

[PeZook]

How about those MIGs?

So, 12 or 24 MiG-29. The Ministry of Proliferation accepts the order

How much will they cost me? I'm doing the budget-fu right now.

[K. A. Pital]

Wait, you are trading with UAR? I'm afraid I'll have to take severe measures. My Unrestricted Economic Warfare policy just backfired at me, but I can't change it now that the SC voted...

As for the planes, each cost $17,5-$15 million depending on the outfit.

Though the Ministry of Proliferation cannot sell or buy anything from nations who trade with UAR under FPO2011

[PeZook]

I think the FUN could use one of them.

PeZook, do you want any F-18s? Each one is just $20 million dollars!

I don't think I'll buy any F-18s, to be honest. I decided to base my air force on Russian equipment with the purchase of Stas' Yak-130 trainers.

Do you want any Loara SHORAD systems?

[K. A. Pital]

Do you want any Loara SHORAD systems?

I could take a battalion or two for my PVO, especially as they're on T-72 chassis... but only if trade with Shep does not occur.

[PeZook]

Wait, you are trading with UAR? I'm afraid I'll have to take severe measures. My Unrestricted Economic Warfare policy just backfired at me, but I can't change it now that the SC voted...

As for the planes, each cost $17,5-$15 million depending on the outfit.

Though the Ministry of Proliferation cannot sell or buy anything from nations who trade with UAR under FPO2011

Huh. It's just a closure of the BlackBeard program, and the missiles will be made in PeZookia.

Of course, since we're far more concerned about keeping good relations with the FUN (obviously) we may cancel the purchase and procure MESS or indigineous systems instead. Of course...damn, that will shoot up the costs

EDIT: Okay, I just read your policy. In this case, we won't be buying any more BlackBeards other than the ones already in service. We'll procure an air defence system jointly with the rest of the FUN.

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

Wait, you are trading with UAR? I'm afraid I'll have to take severe measures. My Unrestricted Economic Warfare policy just backfired at me, but I can't change it now that the SC voted...

As for the planes, each cost $17,5-$15 million depending on the outfit.

Though the Ministry of Proliferation cannot sell or buy anything from nations who trade with UAR under FPO2011

Personally, I'm not going to penalise anyone yet, but I believe that there should be a collective effort to embargo any trade with UAR, until they sign a peace treaty with the rest of us and pledge not to pursue any kind of war against the rest of the world, and proxy wars included.

[K. A. Pital]

Personally, I'm not going to penalise anyone yet, but I believe that there should be a collective effort to embargo any trade with UAR

Indeed. Well, the FP 2011 Act will probably prevent my trade partners from trading with UAR.

I hope the MESS installs a similar policy.

It doesn't mean UAR will immediately fall into economic ruin, but adverse processes in economy, including possible crises, are very well possible. Doesn't mean their regimes will fall too, of course, they can wait and defy us for a 100 years under autarky... But still economies of SDN world are very small and a full embargo is a very severe challenge for a $1,5 trillion economy.

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

Personally, I'm not going to penalise anyone yet, but I believe that there should be a collective effort to embargo any trade with UAR

Indeed. Well, the FP 2011 Act will probably prevent my trade partners from trading with UAR.

I hope the MESS installs a similar policy.

It doesn't mean UAR will immediately fall into economic ruin, but adverse processes in economy, including possible crises, are very well possible. Doesn't mean their regimes will fall too, of course, they can wait and defy us for a 100 years under autarky... But still economies of SDN world are very small and a full embargo is a very severe challenge for a $1,5 trillion economy.

Their combined economy is so large, it's practically self-sustaining.

[Shroom Man 777]

Goddamn. Shroomania will probably have to start making its own Blackbeards!

That's okay. We'll be a major arms exporter, then! MacMillan and Schrom Corp to the rescue!

[PeZook]

All right then: I axed the AirBeards, I'll be buying 12 Mig-29s (the 17 million dollar version) instead. I will also commit 300 million to the FUN space program and 200 million towards forming the FUN rapid reaction force. Also, I'll start constructing radars and data sharing infrastructure for JASD (another 300 mil)

This will bring my budget in the red quite severely, though.

But I hope it wil be worth it.

[PeZook]

Goddamn. Shroomania will probably have to start making its own Blackbeards!

That's okay. We'll be a major arms exporter, then! MacMillan and Schrom Corp to the rescue!

Well, we still have the production facilities and a qualified workforce. I say we establish a common FUN Defence Fund and use it to:

1) Buy the last UKB's Nimitz carrier

2) Procure indigineous, standardized SAM systems for all FUN members, and

3) Finance other FUN reaction force equipment

[K. A. Pital]

Their combined economy is so large, it's practically self-sustaining.

Au contraire it's just 3 trillion. Of course we won't economically kill them immediately, but if we manage to bring the MESS into the embargo, they'd be really adversely impacted. Shepnukistan and the entier UAR would suffer decline and turn into something like Saddamistan - a half-clothed autarky under huge economic strain.

Also, Bear is a major food exporter to all SDN nations; he's a food giant and if he's on the embargo, I'm feeling sorry for the UAR.

[PeZook]

Also, Bear is a major food exporter to all SDN nations; he's a food giant and if he's on the embargo, I'm feeling sorry for the UAR.

The situation is a lot different here, though. All countries are stated to be able to meet their local food needs as per the OP

[RogueIce]

Still catching up, so I may have to edit this out, but if ProTec is indeed helping Shep's PAP goons ethnically-cleanse the Neverhood (or even just training his death squads) that's going to get a most negative response from me. And for that matter, the MESS. Because yes, we accepted King Hoborg's plea.

Just what we'll do about it, I'll have a better idea when I'm done reading through the game thread.

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

I think the FUN could use one of them.

PeZook, do you want any F-18s? Each one is just $20 million dollars!

I don't think I'll buy any F-18s, to be honest. I decided to base my air force on Russian equipment with the purchase of Stas' Yak-130 trainers.

Do you want any Loara SHORAD systems?

You know, I might be interested in a few brigades. How much are those?

EDIT: I would like to buy the turrets only and radar for license production. I can supply my own chassis.

[RogueIce]

Ok, a quick summary:

• Neverhood has been accepted as a MESS protectorate. What we do about it, we're trying to figure out. Also, we've asked everybody, within the FUN and even those unaligned for input and a common voice, to at the vert least condemn Shepnukistani atrocities.
  
  Right now we're not taking any more specific action. But that, no doubt, will change.
• On the Libertian arms shipments, we sincerely thank the FUN for their actions. You managed to buy us more time. My ambassador in Alexandria is still working with General Alexander. Maybe, just maybe, we'll get lucky there.
• We are gravely concerned over ProTec training the People's Armed Police in the Neverhood. As these "police" forces are merely thinly disguised death squads of the Shepnukistani government. We're calling Indhopal's government concerning that, and hope to have a response soon.
• Finally, there is the matter of the IRT's mining operations in the Neverhood. We're doing everything we can to investigate these, and see whether or not slave labor is being used, as we of course suspect. Anyone with information is encouraged to share.
  
  Further, we are concerned over the ties the IRT has with the UAR, especially given the UAR's hositility and antagonism towards the rest of the world. As of yet, no action is being taken. But neither will we continue to ignore this.

I think that catches me up on everything so far.

[Mr Bean]

[
Indeed. Well, the FP 2011 Act will probably prevent my trade partners from trading with UAR.

I hope the MESS installs a similar policy.

It doesn't mean UAR will immediately fall into economic ruin, but adverse processes in economy, including possible crises, are very well possible. Doesn't mean their regimes will fall too, of course, they can wait and defy us for a 100 years under autarky... But still economies of SDN world are very small and a full embargo is a very severe challenge for a $1,5 trillion economy.

How many steps are you going to punish? The IRT trades with them, the IRT trades with criminals, pirates anyone else with money, if I trade via the IRT and it ends up in the UAR do you hit me for it?

In other words are you going to enact modern trade embargo's where you hit up a country for directly trading with the UAR but ignore the multi-party trade(Which is how Iraq ends up with alot of the stuff it go during the Embargo years)

Or hit the multi-party trade up... and ban every country in the world, because I'm pretty sure if you do trade with Mangka, the IRT, Bear or Crossroadia, sooner or later a deal with be conducted with the UAR.

Banning direct middleman sales of course makes sense, but banning all buisness with all countries ever might be going a little bit far.

[phongn]

How many steps are you going to punish? The IRT trades with them, the IRT trades with criminals, pirates anyone else with money, if I trade via the IRT and it ends up in the UAR do you hit me for it?

Hey now. The IRT does not trade with pirates! That's just bad for business.

Banning direct middleman sales of course makes sense, but banning all buisness with all countries ever might be going a little bit far.

I suspect the IRT-UAR traffic will be on the rise

On the Libertian arms shipments, we sincerely thank the FUN for their actions. You managed to buy us more time. My ambassador in Alexandria is still working with General Alexander. Maybe, just maybe, we'll get lucky there.

Muwahahaha </evil laugh>

We are gravely concerned over ProTec training the People's Armed Police in the Neverhood. As these "police" forces are merely thinly disguised death squads of the Shepnukistani government. We're calling Indhopal's government concerning that, and hope to have a response soon.

Er, are they? I mean, from an OOC standpoint, I thought the PAP was ... well, just the PAP.

Finally, there is the matter of the IRT's mining operations in the Neverhood. We're doing everything we can to investigate these, and see whether or not slave labor is being used, as we of course suspect. Anyone with information is encouraged to share.

* snort * Tonkin International Mining pays highly competitive wages .... (subject to local economic conditions)

Further, we are concerned over the ties the IRT has with the UAR, especially given the UAR's hositility and antagonism towards the rest of the world. As of yet, no action is being taken. But neither will we continue to ignore this.

Trade is good. Trade will calm them down. Look, here's a nice shiny Tonkin Dollar ....

[RogueIce]

On the Libertian arms shipments, we sincerely thank the FUN for their actions. You managed to buy us more time. My ambassador in Alexandria is still working with General Alexander. Maybe, just maybe, we'll get lucky there.

Muwahahaha </evil laugh>

Or since it apparently makes some people insanely happy we'll just wind up with a devestating war.

Personally I'd rather avoid that.

We are gravely concerned over ProTec training the People's Armed Police in the Neverhood. As these "police" forces are merely thinly disguised death squads of the Shepnukistani government. We're calling Indhopal's government concerning that, and hope to have a response soon.

Er, are they? I mean, from an OOC standpoint, I thought the PAP was ... well, just the PAP.

From what I read they basically took over all policing duties in the Neverhood and are the main ones doing the fighting over there.

If I misread it then Shep can correct me. And we'll chalk that up to the whole closed-to-the-media thing in us getting incomplete information.

Finally, there is the matter of the IRT's mining operations in the Neverhood. We're doing everything we can to investigate these, and see whether or not slave labor is being used, as we of course suspect. Anyone with information is encouraged to share.

* snort * Tonkin International Mining pays highly competitive wages .... (subject to local economic conditions)

Of course you do. Which is why you won't mind an investigation, would you?

In fact, if this is the case, than you would surely welcome such a fair, open, and unhindered investigation to assure everybody that they are being paid fair and just wages, are being treated well, and of course have received all proper and suitable training and safety equipment. And of course periodic checkups to make sure it stays that way.

Right?

Then again, given that Shepnukistan illegally annexed the Neverhood, it brings into question the basic legitimacy of you, and for that matter, ProTec being there at all.

Further, we are concerned over the ties the IRT has with the UAR, especially given the UAR's hositility and antagonism towards the rest of the world. As of yet, no action is being taken. But neither will we continue to ignore this.

Trade is good. Trade will calm them down. Look, here's a nice shiny Tonkin Dollar ....

Somehow, we don't believe that given their various statements.

[K. A. Pital]

How many steps are you going to punish

Only direct trade. Yeah, someone might go additional pains and enact through-trade, but that's too much effort to help the UAR.

Besides, there's no penalty for trading WITH a nation that trades with UAR, only for trading with UAR directly.

Now, if you "sell" items solely for resell to the UAR, that's tricky, we might apply selective sanctions of our own design.

No problem, it's fine for me and it works so far - we just forced them to blow millions on a potential airlift to fuel their agressive operations in Libertia and supplies to and from Saddamistan, and airlift supplies really rack up costs.