Phoenix Lander Preparing For Martian Touchdown

[PeZook]

Think of it this way: The tiniest deflection of the orbital plane alignment will result in missing Mars by a huge margin. We have managed to traverse 423 million miles, as Drone wrote, hit that planet and land. The drone coasted for 10 months in space and then worked like a charm during the landing. Just doing all the necessary calculations is a mind-boggling task - and we've managed to do it all.

Two hundred years ago we barely could even fly.

That drone proves humans are not just tool users, we're awesome tool users who can complete such incredibly complicated projects. A million years from now, when the human civilization will be extinct and long forgotten, bits and pieces of the Phoenix will still be there, proving we've managed to actually achieve something without annihilating ourselves.

[Broomstick]

Two hundred years ago we barely could even fly.

Actually, that should probably read "one hundred years ago...."

[PeZook]

Two hundred years ago we barely could even fly.

Actually, that should probably read "one hundred years ago...."

Sir George Cayley performed the first brief heavier-than-air glides almost exactly 200 years ago.

I suppose if you only want to include powered flight, then yeah, one hundred years ago. Still, compared to the time Mars was just sitting there, this is nothing. We just kinda showed up and pwn3d the Solar System

[Broomstick]

Gliding isn't flying, it's falling with style.

More seriously - if you're going that route you need to start with the Montgolfier brothers in 1783.

[The Duchess of Zeon]

The first powered flight was in the 1850s, not the 1900s.

Silly HTA-lovers.

[Redleader34]

What are you talking about Duchess. Blimps are Lighter than air, unless there is some sort of secret conspirator plane that I am igorant about

[Redleader34]

EDIT GHETTO HTA= Heavier than Air, reading, cannot do, etc.

[FSTargetDrone]

Update, along with a little bit of information concerning the imaging of the landing that GrandMasterTerwynn first brought up:

NASA lander in OK shape, photo caught Mars landing

By ARTHUR H. ROTSTEIN, Associated Press Writer

35 minutes ago

TUCSON, Ariz. - Fresh images sent back by NASA's Phoenix Mars Lander from the Martian northern polar region showed most of its science instruments were in good shape, mission scientists said.

The one snag on the lander occurred when the protective sheath around the trench-digging robotic arm failed to unwrap all the way after touchdown and now covers the arm's elbow joint.

Deputy project scientist Deborah Bass of NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory said scientists still planned to move the arm Tuesday, but it could take an extra day to fully stretch it.

"I would say this is an inconvenience," Bass said Monday.

Since landing on Mars on Sunday, Phoenix has delighted scientists with the first-ever peek of the planet's unexplored northern latitudes. The terrain where Phoenix settled is relatively flat with polygon-shaped patterns in the ground likely caused by the expansion and contraction of underground ice.

Phoenix will dig into the the soil using its 8-foot-long arm to reach the ice believed to be buried inches to a foot deep.

The lander will study whether the site could have supported primitive life. Among the things it will look for is whether the ice melted in Mars' history and whether the soil samples contain traces of organic compounds, one of the building blocks of life.

On Monday, NASA released a black-and-white image captured during Phoenix's descent by the Mars Reconnaissance Orbiter, which had a bird's-eye view of the lander hanging from its parachute. It's the first time a spacecraft had taken an image of another craft during landing.

Alfred McEwen of the University of Arizona's Lunar and Planetary Laboratory said the camera aboard Reconnaissance Orbiter has taken many unique pictures of Mars, but "this one's really unique."

"This will be on my Top 10 list," said McEwen, who operates the orbiter's camera. "

The $420 million Phoenix mission is led by University of Arizona, Tucson and managed by JPL. Unlike the twin rovers, which have been operating near the Martian equator since 2004, Phoenix has a limited lifetime. Winter will set in later this year at its landing site and likely will cover the lander with frost.

So that picture-taking of one spacecraft landing by another is a first! Wow!

[FSTargetDrone]

Whoops, I meant to add this as well (right from the mission's website):

Camera On Mars Orbiter Snaps Phoenix During Landing

May 26, 2008 -- A telescopic camera in orbit around Mars caught a view of NASA's Phoenix Mars Lander suspended from its parachute during the lander's successful arrival at Mars Sunday evening, May 25.

The image from the High Resolution Imaging Science Experiment (HiRISE) on NASA's Mars Reconnaissance Orbiter marks the first time ever one spacecraft has photographed another one in the act of landing on Mars.

Meanwhile, scientists pored over initial images from Phoenix, the first ever taken from the surface of Mars' polar regions. Phoenix returned information that it was in good health after its first night on Mars, and the Phoenix team sent the spacecraft its to-do list for the day.

"We can see cracks in the troughs that make us think the ice is still modifying the surface," said Phoenix Principal Investigator Peter Smith of the University of Arizona, Tucson. "We see fresh cracks. Cracks can't be old. They would fill in."

Camera pointing for the image from HiRISE used navigational information about Phoenix updated on landing day. The camera team and Phoenix team would not know until the image was sent to Earth whether it had actually caught Phoenix.

"We saw a few other bright spots in the image first, but when we saw the parachute and the lander with the cords connecting them, there was no question," said HiRISE Principal Investigator Alfred McEwen, also of the University of Arizona.

"I'm floored. I'm absolutely floored," said Phoenix Project Manager Barry Goldstein of NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, Calif. A team analyzing what can be learned from the Phoenix descent through the Martian atmosphere will use the image to reconstruct events.

HiRISE usually points downward. For this image, the pointing was at 62 degrees, nearly two-thirds of the way from straight down to horizontal. To tilt the camera, the whole orbiter must tilt. Mars Reconnaissance Orbiter was already pointed toward the expected descent path of Phoenix to record radio transmissions from Phoenix.

McEwen said, "We've never taken an image at such an oblique angle before."

Monday's tasks for Phoenix include checkouts of some instruments and systems, plus additional imaging of the lander's surroundings.

[CaptJodan]

Snip

You know, I know intellectually it all boils down to math, being in the right place in the right time, etc, but that's still amazing. I sometimes boot up "Orbiter", a space based simulation, and am amazed at how difficult it is just to reach a stable orbit, or accurately land at a predestined point. Even docking was difficult until I was able to master it.

But taking a picture of another craft, having it all line up in time, having the craft take the picture at the moment it needed to, all done over what is really an incomprehensible distance away...truly amazing. I think science fiction often times clouds the general public's mind on just how difficult spaceflight is, and how vast space itself is.

[Chardok]

look at This image.

In the upper left quadrant (to the right of the 0 line on the left) there is a white...thing...looks like a jet or a geyser or something. Has anyone speculated on what it is?

[Darmalus]

look at This image.

In the upper left quadrant (to the right of the 0 line on the left) there is a white...thing...looks like a jet or a geyser or something. Has anyone speculated on what it is?

In my unqualified opinion, most likely a bright rock or a piece of the lander that broke off, like the "mars bunny" from a while back.

[GrandMasterTerwynn]

look at This image.

In the upper left quadrant (to the right of the 0 line on the left) there is a white...thing...looks like a jet or a geyser or something. Has anyone speculated on what it is?

It's probably an image artifact, and not physically real. If it were real, it's probably one of those bits of the lander that's supposed to break away and has landed nearby.

[FSTargetDrone]

You know, I know intellectually it all boils down to math, being in the right place in the right time, etc, but that's still amazing. I sometimes boot up "Orbiter", a space based simulation, and am amazed at how difficult it is just to reach a stable orbit, or accurately land at a predestined point. Even docking was difficult until I was able to master it.

But taking a picture of another craft, having it all line up in time, having the craft take the picture at the moment it needed to, all done over what is really an incomprehensible distance away...truly amazing. I think science fiction often times clouds the general public's mind on just how difficult spaceflight is, and how vast space itself is.

Oh, I agree. I really don't think most people can appreciate how difficult these things are to accomplish. The failures seem to get more press than the successes, sometimes and it's too bad. I was looking in vain for any news of substance about the mission over the last few days, but there's been precious little on TV.

In the upper left quadrant (to the right of the 0 line on the left) there is a white...thing...looks like a jet or a geyser or something. Has anyone speculated on what it is?

If the picture you linked is of the same object referenced in the mission site's FAQ, this is what it has to say:

What is the white, vertical object in one of the landscape photos from Landing Day?

This is certainly an object of interest, but we don’t know what it is yet. Our Principal Investigator Peter Smith addressed this question at a press conference earlier today. Remember the first images are compressed, and we are waiting for images of higher resolution. Our priority now is to begin the Characterization Phase of the mission, which includes taking panoramic images of our landing site. We know you want to see a Martian Artic panorama first! Thank you for your patience and we will keep you posted.

It could very well be a piece of the lander's discarded equipment. Opportunity found and photographed (good photo at the link) parts of its own heat shield as it rolled along, so that could certainly be a possibility here.

[PeZook]

You know, I know intellectually it all boils down to math, being in the right place in the right time, etc, but that's still amazing. I sometimes boot up "Orbiter", a space based simulation, and am amazed at how difficult it is just to reach a stable orbit, or accurately land at a predestined point. Even docking was difficult until I was able to master it.

Have you tried going to Mars without MFD assistance?

There are people hardcore enough who did that, using just pencil and paper. Now that makes you appreciate the difficulty, and Orbiter is just a simplified simulation!

[FSTargetDrone]

Have you tried going to Mars without MFD assistance?

There are people hardcore enough who did that, using just pencil and paper. Now that makes you appreciate the difficulty, and Orbiter is just a simplified simulation!

I have to get Orbiter again. A few years back I downloaded a bunch of stuff, but never really got a chance to play with it.

[Darth Wong]

I think science fiction often times clouds the general public's mind on just how difficult spaceflight is, and how vast space itself is.

The problem is more due to widespread public scientific ignorance than the many failings of science fiction. The dumbshit public doesn't know what to be impressed by. They find relatively easy things like a really big conventional bomb or progressive miniaturization of existing technology to be impressive, and overwhelmingly difficult things like a Mars landing unimpressive.

[FSTargetDrone]

Just stumbled across the Candian Space Agency's site and you can now get a brief report of the weather conditions at the location of the lander.

As of Sol 1, the skies are clear and sunny. A bit chilly with a breeze, but it looks like a nice day.

[Broomstick]

So that picture-taking of one spacecraft landing by another is a first! Wow!

Yes. It is only recently that we have had a situation with more than one camera platform at an extraterrestrial location.

[Junghalli]

Two hundred years ago we barely could even fly.

Whenever I get depressed about the seemingly dismal prospect of humanity reaching the stars (not necessarily talking about FTL, just relativistic travel) I do that "a human lifetime ago" thing.

One human lifetime ago it was 1928. Space travel was only a theoretical possibility, air travel was still a new thing, and the fastest vehicle was some sort of prop aircraft.

Two human lifetimes ago it was 1848. The fastest, most sophisticated vehicles were steamships and rail locomotives.

Three human lifetimes ago it was 1768. Steam power was barely more than a theory. The world still moved on the energy of muscles and the wind. The fastest vehicle was probably some kind of sailing ship.

We've come pretty far in three lifetimes.

[CaptJodan]

Have you tried going to Mars without MFD assistance?

There are people hardcore enough who did that, using just pencil and paper. Now that makes you appreciate the difficulty, and Orbiter is just a simplified simulation!

I only recently realized that the ECC value could really help to give me an orbit that wasn't completely retarded around a body. I haven't even transited WITH an MFD, (I shamelessly use the warp MFD, though it puts things in perspective when you're going 125 times the speed of light, and it STILL takes 14+ days to get to Alpha Centauri).

I have to get Orbiter again. A few years back I downloaded a bunch of stuff, but never really got a chance to play with it.

It's one of the few sims I can play on a laptop now that I've lost my main system, so I've recently rediscovered it myself. The DGIV from Dan's Orbiter page is especially fun.

The problem is more due to widespread public scientific ignorance than the many failings of science fiction. The dumbshit public doesn't know what to be impressed by. They find relatively easy things like a really big conventional bomb or progressive miniaturization of existing technology to be impressive, and overwhelmingly difficult things like a Mars landing unimpressive.

It's a combination of factors, I imagine. Space is so vast, so out of reach to the every-day public, that it's hard to get the grand scale of it all. Someone can grow up in Assville Kentucky and have limited education, and still make it far enough to shoot something or drop a bomb or something else that causes destruction. In contrast, space exploration is a kind of "either you've got it or you don't" mentality. And most of the people who don't aren't particularly impressed with year-long waits for something to happen. They can't even conceive of the number of things that must go right in order for a ship to hit something as large as a planet.

I think Sci-fi still plays a part. I only got the hint of vastness when I started playing Orbiter, myself. I never really thought that Trek was an accurate representation of space flight, but it certainly never gave me an impression on how difficult spaceflight was.

[Hawkwings]

It's the lack of perspective. People don't even know what a million looks like. Hell, most people don't even know how long a mile looks like. Put those two together, and the whole concept goes way above their heads.

A good example to use is a full professional sports stadium. The Rose Bowl holds about 90,000 people at capacity. What do all those people look like in an aerial photo? Now multiply that by 11.

[PeZook]

I only recently realized that the ECC value could really help to give me an orbit that wasn't completely retarded around a body. I haven't even transited WITH an MFD, (I shamelessly use the warp MFD, though it puts things in perspective when you're going 125 times the speed of light, and it STILL takes 14+ days to get to Alpha Centauri).

I have recently built myself a huge orbiter mod package and done a Jupiter mission which included transiting two DSVs, building a space station, surveying Jupiter's moons etc.

Here's part of the mission team

And one of the DSVs

And man, it was hard as hell even with fictional lotsofuel starships.

It's a small wonder some people think the Apollo missions never happened. They probably have same outlook we do, but while we are in awe of human technical progress, those guys think it's just plain impossible.

[Commander 598]

I believe part of the problem is that we don't feel as though we're doing anything or are doing the wrong thing. In my book Mars is basically useless and it's a waste of time, money, and effort to try and do much of anything with it's a pretty shitty place all around.

Working out ways to mine near Earth asteroids and/or the moon, perhaps making space a bit more of a profitable venture to invest in, would be a more preferable use of money.

[FSTargetDrone]

I believe part of the problem is that we don't feel as though we're doing anything or are doing the wrong thing. In my book Mars is basically useless and it's a waste of time, money, and effort to try and do much of anything with it's a pretty shitty place all around.

Working out ways to mine near Earth asteroids and/or the moon, perhaps making space a bit more of a profitable venture to invest in, would be a more preferable use of money.

Right now NASA's mission on Mars is to find possible traces of past life (or current life, if possible). Finding traces of even past life on another body in the Solar System would be a phenomenal discovery, perhaps the most important discovery of our time. It would have enormous implications, which should be self-evident.

NASA is not currently operating any missions on Mars that have the intent to find minerals for exploitation, at least not directly.

Exploration for exploration's sake (which is what NASA is basically doing on Mars) has a value on its own.