SD.net's World OOC/Discussion thread MK III

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

We don't particularly like the idea that you are training men who execute Shep's policies.

[MKSheppard]

And yes, I was serious about West Neverhood -- I'd have drawn up some boarder lines, and effectively installed the False King on it's throne; and the MESS would have a shitty little state they'd have to defend against Shepnukistani aggression; while on the other hand, since there is now a WEST neverhood; it would've become massively easier to carry out counter-insurgency operations in East Neverhood, since a lot of the people serious would have moved to West Neverhood....

Alas..........

[K. A. Pital]

Bean says it's the size of an imperium, but the GDP of about a Duchy or so

Oh, okay. All the more reason to go through with SHIELD - material poverty breeds insurgency.

[Shinn Langley Soryu]

First twenty for me are free? Cool. Fifteen single-seaters and five nuclear strikers (improved ground-attack capability is always a bonus regardless of whether one has nukes or not) should sound good.

You were going to get ten and ten, but I guess I go to a 15-5 split.

That's fine.

I also forgot to ask this earlier, but when are the first airframes going to arrive, anyway? Just asking, is all.

[K. A. Pital]

Shinn Langley Soryu, I also delivered your ekranoplans on time in the "Ministry of Proliferation" report feel free to use your new assets

[Shinn Langley Soryu]

Shinn Langley Soryu, I also delivered your ekranoplans on time in the "Ministry of Proliferation" report feel free to use your new assets

Oh, awesome. Editing OOB now.

[Raj Ahten]

We don't particularly like the idea that you are training men who execute Shep's policies.

ProTec was always designed so I could be more involved in world events than a tiny nation normally would be. Hardly a crisis goes by without me being intimately involved!

About Shep's policies, I don't agree with all of them (allying with sadaamistan for instance, holy shit!) but Protec goes where the contracs are, and they follow the rules of war. In this case, it would seem the Eastern part of Neverhood actually likes Shep, so why not a two state solution?

[K. A. Pital]

so why not a two state solution?

Not until it's clear the war is going in no direction. That usually takes years, you know.

[The Yosemite Bear]

note to Shadow:

building a Norse Motors plant, for GEVs. as well as All Wheel drive "Goats" (big frakkin pickups with electrical all wheel drive), oh and the power cells are recharged either by the universal combustion plant (alcohol, biofuel, Petrol, PRopane, it doesn't care) orby plugging it into a convient power supply ....

[phongn]

Bweh? Stas, if you're referring to Shep's giant Slow Convoy, how do you know about it yet? And it isn't passing through the lockdown zone defined by the RT's sea-borders with the UKB and Shroom.

EDIT: TF70 is now pretty much steaming at full speed through the gap north of TSR. International waters all the way, you know

[K. A. Pital]

I asked other FUN nations to apply the blockade to you because I consider you "UAR pawns" not because I know you plan to move assets into the Central Sea.

As for Shep's Convoy, I'll presume the MESS informed the press and other news channels about it's composition; else, I'll edit the Post out.

[phongn]

I asked other FUN nations to apply the blockade to you because I consider you "UAR pawns" not because I know you plan to move assets into the Central Sea.

Those international waters are too wide to do a legal blockade, AFAIK.

[K. A. Pital]

Those international waters are too wide to do a legal blockade, AFAIK.

Really? Sorry, but I didn't recall there was a law that prevented nations from acting like dicks towards arbitary other nations.

And it's not a "full blockade", we only block it to select nations' ships, namely the UAR (so far).

Technically the anti-UAR blockade is well feasible, the Central Sea is saturated with ASMs which would sink trespassers should such be.

In any case the ships can easily arrested and turned back, and who're you going to appeal to? "United Nations"?

[phongn]

Really? Sorry, but I didn't recall there was a law that prevented nations from acting like dicks towards arbitary other nations.

Well, you know, everyone's so hung-ho on "legalism" and whatnot in regards to Neverhood that surely they'd do so elsewise? Also, there's the concept of Innocent Passage: if recognized, I could simply move through someone else's territorial waters since I'm not at war, and I'm not being excluded (as in the case of the RT, whose waters we have respected).

Technically the anti-UAR blockade is well feasible, the Central Sea is saturated with ASMs which would sink trespassers should such be.

Well, yes. Though, I'm not sure - did you actually stop my ships in the decoy convoy moving through? IIRC, you let them through then since they separated from the UAR's.

In any case the ships can easily arrested and turned back, and who're you going to appeal to? "United Nations"?

What if the freighters simply do not stop?

[K. A. Pital]

All vessels (including military vessels) are permitted innocent passage through territorial waters including strategic straits so long as such transit is in a peaceful, non-threatening manner towards the controlling nation.

That's the current incarnation of New World legalities. This means, if we feel threatened, we can lockdown the waters and end of story.

IIRC, you let them through then since they separated from the UAR's.

I thought your convoy did not move through (Shep said you're not willing to alienate us or something), but if it did, then sure, I let it pass.

What if the freighters simply do not stop?

Board ships, arrest crews, drive into nearest harbor.

[Sea Skimmer]

Hmm... I read that the F-16C/D cost around less than $ 20 million USD.

The F-16C/D Block 20 fighter cost 23 million in 1984, with the USAF making a commitment to buy 603 of them at once, continuing a non stop production run of F-16s which was already past the 700 plane mark. If the cost went a bit lower later on that’s understandable, but it’s a very obsolete version of the aircraft now. The low cost is directly related to massive production run. The original F-16A BTW cost less then 11 million, but it could do almost nothing except shoot four Sidewinders and a 20mm cannon. The last F-16s the USAF bought cost 26.5 million in the 1990s. The cost for the export airframe of a Block 50/52 is now around 30 million.

However if you look at some real export orders, you’ll find the costs go way up, and people pay anywhere from about 40 million (Israelis making its yearly purchase of more airframes) to over 70 million apiece of the Polish order for 48 aircraft. Chile paid 700 million for 12 aircraft, 58 million but these aircraft didn’t not have full capabilities of weapons and other equipment.

If you want a top end Block 60 with an AESA radar, well the UAE paid 6.5 billion for 80 such aircraft.

The F-15E did cost 43 million in 1998 for the USAF, but the half generation better equipped F-15SG is estimated to cost around 55 million, with Singapore’s total program cost being over 100 million per aircraft.

The bigger the export order, the smaller in proportion of total cost will be the margin for support equipment and spares, but not enormously. Air power is not cheap; it never has been. Course, being bombarded from the air isn’t exactly cheaper.

[phongn]

All vessels (including military vessels) are permitted innocent passage through territorial waters including strategic straits so long as such transit is in a peaceful, non-threatening manner towards the controlling nation.

That's the current incarnation of New World legalities. This means, if we feel threatened, we can lockdown the waters and end of story.

Territorial waters, yes. I never claimed otherwise. The transiting region in question do not represent territorial waters.

I thought your convoy did not move through (Shep said you're not willing to alienate us or something), but if it did, then sure, I let it pass.

I didn't allow UAR cargo on my ships transiting through in an attempt to be nice to the RT.

[phongn]

Also, as a note: unlike many well-equipped insurgencies, there's no land route to Neverhood. Anything heavy coming in pretty much has to do so by boat, and ideally a port (though it's not required, but tanks are heavy things, after all)

[K. A. Pital]

Anything heavy coming in pretty much has to do so by boat, and ideally a port (though it's not required, but tanks are heavy things, after all)

Of course. This is why my cargo freighters as well as MESS freighters are operating in the region. Remember, West Neverhood is recognized as a nation-state under imperialist agression. Attempts to hinder shipments would constitute an act of war.

As for ships, fine, they passed wherever you see them fit to pass. either throug MESS waters or my waters.

[The Grim Squeaker]

I can't help but notice that with all these talk of Arik's Neverhood, you're ignoring the small, highly motivated, LOYAL (To the Government, whichever parts were not slaughtered by Shep's forces) Regular army and Naval forces of the Neverhood.
As of the very start of the game, before Stas boosted investment in the military and before years of high technology and advanced materials (and space/aeronautics) research the military was:
Armed Forces:

The army is very small & demilitarized (Less than 2% GDP, slightly less than Japan), due to many personnel serving as part of the national/civil service, as well as a conscious focus on a small, professional peace-keeping army with a high level of technology & support, with a strictly defensive focus.
Military, 280,000 personnel, Comparable armored/motorized deployment to the Royal Army (Half normal starting size), 300 Jet Fighters, 18 Arleigh Burke-class Destroyers, 50 Halifax Class Frigates and 18 modern Diesel submarines. (Smaller than the standard)

The army was about 60% of the basic starter, and with an emphasis on highly trained footsoldiers and high technology.
Also, Shep? Just say "insidious Nukistani controllerS", there was no civil issues in the Neverhood before you re-annexed it from Stas, it (As Stas pointed out) had a first world GDP and very high living standards, low taxes and no chaos before Shep tried to turn the east into a puppet state. (And it has massive shorelines and canal networks as well as underground transport. Smuggling via tunnels and canals isn't that hard, especially with a full navy and highly developed merchant fleet).

/Puppet advisor out.[/quote]

[K. A. Pital]

DEATH

I think Bean penalized your nation, since you have a negative CT, into having a very small GDP which is unable to support such a huge army.

[Sea Skimmer]

In any case the ships can easily arrested and turned back, and who're you going to appeal to? "United Nations"?

No, we now have over 10 gigatons of nuclear weapons to deal with the situation.

[phongn]

The army was about 60% of the basic starter, and with an emphasis on highly trained footsoldiers and high technology.

Unfortunately, as you have a negative custom title, you get ... this:

"A military of 1,000-2,500 personnel (depending on US) and a basic fleet of a couple of Patrol boats and choppers for naval policing. You can de-militarize if so you desire, as is the case with every one of these nations. "

Also, Shep? Just say "insidious Nukistani controllerS", there was no civil issues in the Neverhood before you re-annexed it from Stas, it (As Stas pointed out) had a first world GDP and very high living standards, low taxes and no chaos before Shep tried to turn the east into a puppet state. (And it has massive shorelines and canal networks as well as underground transport. Smuggling via tunnels and canals isn't that hard, especially with a full navy and highly developed merchant fleet).

Again, overridden by the mighty moderator Bean. Sorry man.

[PeZook]

"I have received our orders from Corporate Command Authority; we are to move into the Central Sea and set up the operation. We will declare an exclusion zone once a suitable region has been found and issue a Notice to Mariners. Foreign vessels will not be permitted from entering it but we will permit any and all observation at the edge of the zone. "

Could you clarify what you mean by that? An invasion or what?

As for the Mig-29s: So, can I assume that Stas is selling them at a discount, or should I up the cash assigned to the purchase?

Current status of the FUN defence fund:

Code: Select all

Contributor         Amount
PeZookia              200 mil
N'Ton                    10 mil

Anybody else wants Loaras or production licenses for them?

[K. A. Pital]

No, we now have over 10 gigatons of nuclear weapons to deal with the situation.

With WHICH situation, Skimmer? You are going to nuke the world for the arrest of Tonkin's ships? Or your ships for that matter?

In that case your nation's leader is clinically insane, and we will treat him as such from now on. Well, that was clear from the get-go anyway.

Nuclear bully madmen, what could be better? I suppose I should really back the MESS on this one conflict and take part in the collective nuclear destruction of your nations, since the danger you pose to everyone is too high to even measure on a Richter scale.