SD.net's World OOC/Discussion thread MK III

[Sea Skimmer]

With WHICH situation, Skimmer? You are going to nuke the world for the arrest of Tonkin's ships? Or your ships for that matter?

If you open fire on UAR shipping then the UAR is left with little to no choice but to employ its public doctrine of massive retaliation. As it is the world course of action has amounted to an attempt at a naval blockade of UAR shipping, an act of war in and of its self already. You’ve shut Saddamistan and now the UAR out of a nation just 50 miles away from it, and then gone an meddled in its internal affairs on a far more massive scale. Its clearly an attempt to encircle and strangle the UAR, and you think we would not launch a war to prevent it from being enforced when we have far more megatonnage then anyone else could?

Really we are hardly demanding anything unreasonable here, just ocean access for our shipping and an equal right to meddle in a foreign land everyone else has been feasting over for years now, while still failing to bring about any real peace progress too boot.

If the world didn’t constantly make demands and try to strangle Saddamistan in particular it might even go so far as to unilaterally, abet secretly, destroy its biological weapons stockpiles as no longer necessary in ordered to save money on delivery systems and storage.

[K. A. Pital]

If you open fire on UAR shipping then the UAR is left with little to no choice but to employ its public doctrine of massive retaliation.

Who said about opening fire? We'd board the ship and arrest the crew.

As it is the world course of action has amounted to an attempt at a naval blockade of UAR shipping, an act of war in and of its self already.

Really? Nations did block the UAR shipping LEGALLY per the law of the sea. Don't like it? Go round the world or through MESS straits - though I think they have a similar policy.

You’ve shut Saddamistan and now the UAR out of a nation just 50 miles away from it, and then gone an meddled in its internal affairs on a far more massive scale.

Internal affairs? Well here's what: fuck that. DEATH submitted his territory to OMSK, not to Sheppard. Shep just annexed it, and then proceeded to leave OMSK, which eventually led to OMSK desintegrating.

So no, you have no legal basis to claim ANYTHING here.

Its clearly an attempt to encircle and strangle the UAR, and you think we would not launch a war to prevent it

The USSR did not launch a war when various embargos were tried, neither when Cuba was blocked by US forces, and so on and so forth.

Really we are hardly demanding anything unreasonable here, just ocean access for our shipping

Blah blah blah. You threaten to kill billions because you want your ships running through the Central Sea. I can't see anyting but nuclear warmongering here. Go around the world, spend more fuel and food. Or whine to Shep; I doubt he'd nuke the entier world because your shipping is not allowed into the straits controlled by our nations.

an equal right to meddle in a foreign land everyone else has been feasting over for years now

No one had such "rights". Only private entities did it, and ultimately they suffered for it (Indhopal pilots were killed by Operation Wrath of God). No one mass exported BMDs into a nation, or initiated huge missile strikes and then proceeded to plan an invasion, which you still do intending to use Alexander's territory. Sorr, NO.

while still failing to bring about any real peace progress too boot.

Yadda yadda. The nations were in a relative ceasefire situation. Your meddling created the whole mess.

[PeZook]

Its clearly an attempt to encircle and strangle the UAR, and you think we would not launch a war to prevent it from being enforced when we have far more megatonnage then anyone else could?

"Encircle and strangle" the UAR? How is the Libertopia situation an attempt to do that? Is it a major trading partner to Saddamistan?

All we tried to do was work out a solution to Libertopia which did not involve outright genocide ; Saddamistan didn't even see fit to criticize any of our plans, despite them being completely public, bombed the Sultanate out of the blue, despite MESS warnings not to do that, and now acts as if the world is the unreasonable one...

Really we are hardly demanding anything unreasonable here, just ocean access for our shipping and an equal right to meddle in a foreign land everyone else has been feasting over for years now, while still failing to bring about any real peace progress too boot.

Geee, I wonder why Libertopian talks broke down, I wonder...perhaps because, I don't know, one of the major players didn't even see fit to comment on them? Not even with "It's the Great Saddam's position that Libertopia should be bombed to ash"?

If the world didn’t constantly make demands and try to strangle Saddamistan in particular it might even go so far as to unilaterally, abet secretly, destroy its biological weapons stockpiles as no longer necessary in ordered to save money on delivery systems and storage.

Yeah, because when the world asked nicely to stop all bioweapons research, Saddamistan decided it wasn't worth the time to sign the treat (and even gloated it will never "limit its weapon choices")

Now the world demands semi-strongly that Saddamistan destroy its bioweapons and not bomb Libertopia, and these are the only two demands. These two things are literally the only reason for the Central Sea lockdown and RT economic warfare.

But of course we were supposed to predict the future and just know Saddam The Great would unilaterally destroy its bioweapon stockpile if left alone

Jesus, you have enough megatonnage to destroy world civilization, and you won't destroy goddamned bioweapons because of injured pride?

[MKSheppard]

Internal affairs? Well here's what: fuck that. DEATH submitted his territory to OMSK, not to Sheppard. Shep just annexed it, and then proceeded to leave OMSK, which eventually led to OMSK desintegrating.

I recall zero interest or protests within OMSK at the time over the plebiscite over Union with Shepnukistan, which passed overwhelmingly at the time.

[MKSheppard]

Yeah, because when the world asked nicely to stop all bioweapons research, Saddamistan decided it wasn't worth the time to sign the treat (and even gloated it will never "limit its weapon choices")

Actually, Shepnukistan never even attended the Bioweapons conference, or even signed that treaty; something everyone forgets....

[K. A. Pital]

Well we were still in the OMSK and it was an internal matter, wasn't it? Why bring dirt out of the family house, right? In good faith we didn't act; besides, there were more pressing issues.

Then you just left the OMSK and joined with Saddam.

No cookies.

[PeZook]

Actually, Shepnukistan never even attended the Bioweapons conference, or even signed that treaty; something everyone forgets....

Yeah, well, we all know you and Sea Skimmer are a match made in heaven.

Come on ; You can already wipe out civilization. Why the insistence on using bio-weapons to do it? All you two got from that was pissing off the rest of the world.

[The Yosemite Bear]

at least let me make the genetically engineered mutant kangaroo commandos, and the feral kids with boomerangs out of scrap metal, before you blow everything up...

definatly needs more feral children with Boomerangs...

[Sea Skimmer]

Who said about opening fire? We'd board the ship and arrest the crew.

Board and capture a ship loaded with weapons and a military guard inside in a heavily armed convoy without firing a shot? Yeah right.

Really? Nations did block the UAR shipping LEGALLY per the law of the sea. Don't like it? Go round the world or through MESS straits - though I think they have a similar policy.

Actually IF we had a real law of the sea, which we don’t, then all those narrow waterways would have been recognized as international straights, passage through which cannot be legally bared, just as numerous narrow waterways are on earth. Why else do you think Spain can’t simply declare the straights of Gibraltar closed to shipping that doesn’t pay a toll?

Internal affairs? Well here's what: fuck that. DEATH submitted his territory to OMSK, not to Sheppard. Shep just annexed it, and then proceeded to leave OMSK, which eventually led to OMSK desintegrating.

Actually I was referring to Libertia, the destiniation of our convoys.

The USSR did not launch a war when various embargos were tried, neither when Cuba was blocked by US forces, and so on and so forth.

It came damn close at times; and nothing EVER reached close to the point of even one single American threatening to step foot on a Soviet ship. Just look at the Vietnam war when the US wouldn’t bomb within five miles of a Soviet ship at anchor unloading weapons to shoot at the American planes dong the bombing….

Blah blah blah. You threaten to kill billions because you want your ships running through the Central Sea. I can't see anyting but nuclear warmongering here. Go around the world, spend more fuel and food. Or whine to Shep; I doubt he'd nuke the entier world because your shipping is not allowed into the straits controlled by our nations.

Man are you wrong, you don’t even want to know now how many times President Sheppard has had to be talked out of things when he asked ‘do we start it today?”

[PeZook]

The FUN has one simple condition for rescinding the blockade: Stop bioweapons research and destroy the stockpiles. It's not like it requires you to make great sacrifices of national security, but you decided to show no good will towards the world at all.

You're like the neighbor who hoards massive amounts of reallsy smelly trash in his home and continuously threatens to shoot anybody who asks he move them to a landfill ; Is it really such a wonder that people from the neighborhood don't want anything to do with him?

On another note, I really wonder where that mine is going to be placed...damn, I don't want to lose the entire 107 ship convoy

[K. A. Pital]

Specificaly for "not present" parties like Shep - present or not, signatory or not, you are hate of the world right now and rightly so.

The development, procurement, proliferation and use of biological weapons has been BANNED by the collective decision of the 1st Great Conference of Nations. Non-signatories to the BAN will still face consequences since SD Nations reserve the full right to protect this small world from biological threats by any means possible.

Okay? Present, not present. We don't care.

Board and capture a ship loaded with weapons and a military guard inside in a heavily armed convoy without firing a shot? Yeah right.

So what? Your nationals resisted when being warned. So casus belli? Come on, start your war. We know you want it anyway, so let's just get done with the holocaust.

Actually IF we had a real law of the sea, which we don’t, then all those narrow waterways would have been recognized as international straights, passage through which cannot be legally bared, just as numerous narrow waterways are on earth.

No, we do have a law. And if you never recognized it, that's your problem. Once again, if you want to go to war, do it.

Actually I was referring to Libertia, the destiniation of our convoys.

We "meddled" in Libertia's affairs? I only had 500 private nationals there who were religious pilgrims even if ex-military goons; and they left the fucking nation as soon as it became clear what you plan to do.

Man are you wrong, you don’t even want to know now how many times President Sheppard has had to be talked out of things when he asked ‘do we start it today?”

In that case I ask the MESS to initiate preventive nuclear first strike against your nations as terminally insane leadership rules them; and this strike will be condoned not judged by my nation at least.

[Crossroads Inc.]

So, for those not following things religiously and have been skimming the past few pages... How close is SD.World to total annihlation at this point? 50%? 60?

[PeZook]

Well, actually our law of the sea is almost word-for-word what the Earth convention says, so yeah - the blockade of the central sea is pretty illegal.

But it's not like it didn't happen on Earth beforehand. It happens when you hold people at gunpoint.

[Sea Skimmer]

Come on ; You can already wipe out civilization. Why the insistence on using bio-weapons to do it? All you two got from that was pissing off the rest of the world.

Because that’s an unacceptable infringement on sovereignty, the weapons are necessary until production of nuclear weapons catches up with production of delivery systems, and since you all insist on allying against us, a lot of delivery systems are required. I do find it funny though how so many threats have been made against a nation you want to disarm, increasing the need for them and the risk of use. If you didn’t give a shit then they’d eventually have all been incinerated and the keepers of the bio arsenal retrained to handle friendly controllable nukes.

[K. A. Pital]

If you didn’t give a shit then they’d eventually have all been incinerated

Yeah yeah. And all nuclear weapons destroyed, and you'd be just buddy buddy, except Shep annexed DEATH and you plan still to roll over Libertia.

Right.

[PeZook]

Because that’s an unacceptable infringement on sovereignty, the weapons are necessary until production of nuclear weapons catches up with production of delivery systems, and since you all insist on allying against us, a lot of delivery systems are required.

Well, sometimes people ask you for things you may not like, and get pissed if you refuse, like with the trash-hoarding guy example.

I suppose it depends whether or not you want to live peacefully with your neighbors, but we already know the asnwer to that question, eh, mister "Our airspace extends to infinity +1"?

Compared to that claim, demanding you get rid of bioweapons is small potatoes

[MKSheppard]

In that case I ask the MESS to initiate preventive nuclear first strike against your nations as terminally insane leadership rules them; and this strike will be condoned not judged by my nation at least.

You know, that's gonna make you real popular with the FUN. Prior to that statment, the FUN was sort of "hey, shroomy is cool, lets not bother him too much, we like gay calendars" in the Nukistani Targeteering department; now it's "Okay, we have a few left over devices in the first wave, where do we put them to cause maximum un-FUN?"

[K. A. Pital]

Ooooh, if you needed any more proof of terminal insanity, it's here.

In case of a nuclear war between UAR and MESS... nuke FUN! The FUN, which was neutral, and also did not vow to blockade Libertia which is what the MESS did. And whose entire nuclear stockpile is a handful of leftover Tu-160 missiles and Tu-95 bombs.

As for taking joy in UAR's destruction, you know, no one ever considered THAT a case of war, and if you do, you seriously need to see a Nova Terra doctor; something like "controlling anger"

Yeah, perhaps "neutrality" is a concept that is hard to grasp for the UAR; after all, both of it's leaders now claim to be targeting the entier world.

Beautiful. You're digging your own grave - you think anyone would cooperate with you on anything after that?

Look, I think it's the Secretary General which missile attacks Libertia... nop... or maybe he targets everyone around? Nop... perhaps he set his officials on "Doomsday rotation"... nop... maybe he said he has good plans after "nuclear holocaust"? I think not... or he claimed his airspace is infinity +1... no... maybe he worked on bioweapons? Um... no, he actually condoned a shady intel operation once because it was assumed Mangka was making bioweapons.... Maybe I joined a despotic nation with bioweapons? Nop... or, like, I threatened nuclear annihilation if my ships are stopped with force or, shush, even sunk?

You and Skimmer are high school bullies here. Nothing more. "We have da nuclear club, we like da war, we killz pepul and do what we like and fuck you". Well, so be it

[PeZook]

Okay, enough mud-slinging. Do you start it today or not? Cause if you do, then I don't need to be working out ISCA purchases and budgetmath-fu, but moving my people out of the cities

[K. A. Pital]

I'm tired of being forced to "escalate" or even answer to pointless bullying like "stop our ships, we NUKE YU!!". I moved my nukes into deep storages so if you nuke us it would be on your conscience. With this, I am going away and hoping our nations stay alive.

I'll come online from home to see what the MESS will do in the evening.

Morally though we stand behind the MESS, I think all of us agree - and we have good reasons for this position

[The Yosemite Bear]

In case of a nuclear war between UAR and MESS... nuke FUN! The FUN, which was neutral, and also did not vow to blockade Libertia which is what the MESS did. And whose entire nuclear stockpile is a handful of leftover Tu-160 missiles and Tu-95 bombs.

As for taking joy in UAR's destruction, you know, no one ever considered THAT a case of war, and if you do, you seriously need to see a Nova Terra doctor; something like "controlling anger"

last time we checked Mangka was not making any experiments with a "Rage Virus" however Colin's Turkey Chili with Rattlesnake is a potential spontaneous human combustion hazzard.

[Crossroads Inc.]

God if war breaks out im screwed so many ways... I'll just be praying that ive kept Crossroadia out of affairs enough its not directly targeted him... Hmmm I wonder how well iv'e Nuke-Proofed the large parts of the CCCT...

[The Yosemite Bear]

trust me there's a reason my "Mole vehicles" stand to be one of the better sellers of 2011....

[K. A. Pital]

Well, you raked 1,5 billion worth of contract already Bear

[PeZook]

Well, you raked 1,5 billion worth of contract already Bear

I was thinking of buying one on deficit, but it will take between 2 and 3 years and ungodly amounts of money to actually build a decent big shelter, so uh...is Bear offering leasing plans?

EDIT: Okay, fuck this. I'm cutting some social programs, a bit from education, and the joint FUN nuclear program, taking 500 million in deficit and buying a Mole.

I want to start digging ASAP. Even a big hole in the ground is better than absolutely nothing.