SD.net's World OOC/Discussion thread MK III

[MKSheppard]

Story, man, story!

Oh, this will be good for a story; you'll have plenty of reasons to now really be in West Neverhood.

[MKSheppard]

Final Blackbeard Production (96 missiles per battalion), with termination of Blackbeard funding by Shepnukistan.

9 x Blackbeard battalions (Red Tech) (864 missiles)
9 x Blackbeard battalions (UKB) (864 missiles)
10 x Blackbeard battalions (Shroom) (960 Missiles)
10 x Blackbeard battalions (Canissia) (960 Missiles)
10 x Blackbeard battalions (Pezook) (960 Missiles)
10 x Blackbeard battalions (Zor) (960 Missiles)
9 x Blackbeard battalions (New Patria) (864 missiles)
9 x Blackbeard battalions (Random others) (864 missiles)
9 x Blackbeard battalions (Shepnukistan) (864 missiles)

[MKSheppard]

Back to you; you've now gots a huge disaster on your hands.

[Coyote]

I've detailed my Navy in the OOB thread (top of page 2 in the OOB sticky) to give amore detailed view of what my navy is up to and to account for them.

Any ships not specifically identified as being with a fleet or operation or other home-port are considered to be doing any of a number of things related to general Navy stuff-- patrols, maintenance, training, liberty, and so on. Only if they're doing something significant will I bother to note it.

[RogueIce]

Did natural resources ever get figured out? How about the usual copper, tin, some low-grade gems (rubies, sapphires, opals, emeralds) and rubber plantations, with modest natural gas deposits. Sound okay?

Attention to detail, soldier! I reposted DEATH's thing from the Refrence thread on the page before you!

Main industries: Energy (Nuclear,Hydro), resource extraction (gas, diamonds, uranium), Tourism, high-technology projects (including aviation, communications, computer-aided design and manufactures, High efficiency Undersea & deep-mining technology, Space technology, fiber optics).
Mineral resources exist, including oil, but are depleted or have high extraction costs (In the case of the oil), barring Uranium, Diamonds & Metals (recently discovered, and easier to reach due to silting of the channels).

Anyway, while it's largely Coyote's call, I don't see why we're going to let Tonkin companies in and start their usual round of resource exploitation, given their cozy relationship with the UAR of late. Plus in general principle: they're just going to take Neverhood's resources out of the Neverhood.

At any rate, Coyote, they keep well away from the uranium. If they want some nuclear weapons, we won't be supplying them.

In fact, given what I see to be mined, yeah, I don't see any need for any of that to start leaving the Neverhood and entering the pockets of greedy Tonkin executives.

Just the point of view of one of your allies and friendly neighborhood Chief Administrator. (Unless the MESS decides to vote on it though, it's nonbinding FYI). Although at this stage, maybe we should vote... Hmmmm...

Oh and phongn what's the deal with those Tonkin cargo ships Shep listed in his Slow Convoy? Huh? You think our maritime patrol aircraft missed them?

Anyway, there was probably more I was going to say, but I'm going to move on and just come back if I remember.

[Coyote]

That works.

Unfortunately, the local militias on both sides will be most displeased at this "exploitation of the People's Resources" and ProTec will find itself earning its pay-- in spades ("Rorke's Drift" anyone?). It may even become unprofitable-- especially if any "blood diamonds" scandals break out. (I discuss all this openly so we can help build some stories, basically).

[Master_Baerne]

So, uh...you'd run out of missiles before we did.

Huh, forgot that Shep sent that many missiles to you, but in this case you made it sound like your republic was going to go off half-cocked and all Don't forget my SSN in the area, though

My good man, you've got one. I've got six, floating off Shroomania for a Joint Shroom/Baerne Training Shenanigan.

[RogueIce]

Whoops, sorry people.

Wilkens is out as you can see in some of his recent postings with computer trouble. So I'm RPing him for the moment.

Also, he said he decided to surge his carriers out when word was received of Shepnukistan's decision to send the arms convoy through, no matter what. So since they were allowed to transit the Central Sea that would mean they'd get there ahead of Shep.

So he's got his four carriers out there, on the west coast. Tian Xia and the LSR still have their CSGs (1 apiece as far as I can remember, but they can correct me if I'm off) over on the east coast between TL and Adrianopolis.

I'm not sure what Ender's doing with his three. I'm gonna go give him a kick in the PM box.

EDIT: And while my two carriers from TL were originally on their way home, when word came out of the convoy I ordered them to "turn around" so they're still out there (and yes, that IS in the game thread). Although just where they were sent is classified.

But it's "somewhere in the Western Ocean".

[RogueIce]

Zor

Where was the epicenter exactly? So we'd all know which parts of which countries will likely to be hit?

Oh, and I'd really hope whoever was watching those sensors saw fit to send a heads up to everyone else.

[phongn]

Anyway, while it's largely Coyote's call, I don't see why we're going to let Tonkin companies in and start their usual round of resource exploitation, given their cozy relationship with the UAR of late. Plus in general principle: they're just going to take Neverhood's resources out of the Neverhood.

At which point we get taxed on gross revenue from the project, enriching the government? To say nothing of the people who gain steady employment, or the enrichment international trade brings.

At any rate, Coyote, they keep well away from the uranium. If they want some nuclear weapons, we won't be supplying them.

That, sir, is not in the agreement

Oh and phongn what's the deal with those Tonkin cargo ships Shep listed in his Slow Convoy? Huh? You think our maritime patrol aircraft missed them?

Nope. There's also the IRT fast convoy too, which completed transiting the Central Sea.

Unfortunately, the local militias on both sides will be most displeased at this "exploitation of the People's Resources" and ProTec will find itself earning its pay-- in spades ("Rorke's Drift" anyone?). It may even become unprofitable-- especially if any "blood diamonds" scandals break out. (I discuss all this openly so we can help build some stories, basically).

It's not the local militia we're worried about, who in general all not well-trained or well-armed. It's the government-funded heavies that are the main threat.

My good man, you've got one. I've got six, floating off Shroomania for a Joint Shroom/Baerne Training Shenanigan.

Aren't those SSKs? I fear not mobile minefields.

[RogueIce]

That, sir, is not in the agreement

I haven't seen anything official put to paper yet, have you?

Nope. There's also the IRT fast convoy too, which completed transiting the Central Sea.

That's the one that did the nuke test and is now going home to the IRT, right?

Oh, and if you want to be cagey about the Slow Convoy ships fine, but don't think we'll just forget about them being there. Or that we haven't let the rest of the world know that yes, in fact, there are still IRT-flagged vessels enroute to Terra Libertia.

(HINT: Rest of the world, we just told you. )

[RogueIce]

Sea Skimmer
Hey, you never posted an OOB or anything in the Ref thread. Shouldn't you, y'know, do that in STGODs?

Even if you declare it IU secret, I think you're still supposed to post something up there.

[phongn]

I haven't seen anything official put to paper yet, have you?

As far as I'm concerned, the agreement is done with the Admiral, despite the rather large gold bar now sitting on the contract before the ink has even dried.

That's the one that did the nuke test and is now going home to the IRT, right?

Nope. And who said that group is going home?

[RogueIce]

Nope. And who said that group is going home?

OK, went back and it was this post (the whole "turn back" thing) that made me think that.

If it's not the case, then just what do you have in the Central Sea and in what general direction are they heading?

C'mon, it's not like we all wouldn't see them and get a heading. Not many places to hide in there.

[phongn]

If it's not the case, then just what do you have in the Central Sea and in what general direction are they heading?

The Fast Convoy has exited the Central Sea and is maintaining right of Innocent Passage via Saddamistan's coastal waters before its dash to Libertia. It is protected by a SAG.

There's the additional nuclear testing group whose non-combat elements are heading north through the UKB's territorial waters via innocent passage to exit the Central Sea and stick their thumbs out at the RT. The SAG previous attached to those ships is now sprinting south to catch up with the Fast Convoy.

Meanwhile, the rest of the Tonkin freighters remain in Shep's Slow Convoy.

[MKSheppard]

VI Armored Corps OOB:

928 M1A2s
772 M2A3s
317 M3A3s
408 APCs
168 ATGM Tank Destroyers
198 APC Command Posts
36 Heavy SP Howitzers (203mm+)
216 Medium SP Howitzers (155mm)
27 MRLS
576 Javelins
198 M106 4.2” SPM
108 Air Defense Systems (DIVAD/etc)
150 AH-64s
162 OH-58s
81 UH-60s
36 EH-60s
24 CEVs
49,489 Men

[Zor]

Zor

Where was the epicenter exactly? So we'd all know which parts of which countries will likely to be hit?

Oh, and I'd really hope whoever was watching those sensors saw fit to send a heads up to everyone else.

In a circle 35 kilometers in diameter 2500 Kilometers due south of the Qudlivun Free State. The Faultine it is on is rather big.

Zor

[Sea Skimmer]

Oky, let's clear something.

Skimmer claimed the UAR has 10 gigatons of nukes.

Actually I realized that’s probably a pretty low estimate

Ten fucking gigatons for an archipelago whose entier ground surface is smaller than Africa.

I think everyone should understand that the combined USSR-US nuclear stockpile at it's high reached something like 15-20 gigatons.

No its peak yield was fair bit higher then that, 15-20 gigatons is more reflective of the yield of bombs actually deployed for instant use on missiles. Ever heard of the Mk-41 nuclear device? It yielded 25 megatons and the United States produce 500 of the things in less then three years while also building a dozen other nuclear warhead designs at the same time. Those bombs alone are equal to 12.5 gigatons. If the US and USSR had concentrated on building high yield gravity bombs they could have produced THOUSANDS OF GIGATONS worth of nuclear firepower.

The USSR and US however had to deliver those weapons over MUCH greater distances and both chose to mainly use ballistic missiles based in absurdly expensive SSBNs and hardened land silos. They also produced far more warheads then the UAR will ever consider, as in 100,000 more warheads. This all means the USSR and US had to spend trillions in extra money which is irrelevant for the UAR.

Now, this also means Shep produced nukes at a rate of 3,3 Gigatons per year (no nuclear weapon stuff save for those which came with stockpile ordred tech, like SSBNs, existed in SDN world). HOW IS THAT POSSIBLE?! Show the calculations, which detail the fissile material production, and the economic cost of this!

Simple, because the terms of the game GAVE HIM tons upon tons of weapons grade uranium in the form of the filling of the reactor cores of his nuclear warships, particularly the Virginia class subs. He got rid of the ships, turned the fuel into nukes. Saddamistan hasn’t done so, but the option is still open, thus its smaller and predominantly low yield stockpile. In fact Shep was being generous, because he did NOT also factor in the potential production capability of his HEU plant for naval fuel into his nuclear bomb production capability.

Which means, post OMSK downfall, he is in an economic crisis. So scale down that arsenal, or I'll write in about the collapse of Shepnukistan industry with no revenue from making gigatons of nukes per year.

How about no. Your absurdly over simplistic comparisons are irrelevant, and if anything should be objected too from a timescale and cost standpoint its all these space programs people have running. Space travel and giant multi stage booster rockets able to throw 20 ton masses into orbit are far more technologically demanding then a few hundred big nuclear bombs produced using existing material.

[MKSheppard]

Shepnukistan has around 600+ devices, and about 8,000 megatons; of which about 90% is concentrated into a mere 300 devices. We're forced into using really big bombs because of the lack of fissile material; bigger bombs = more efficient than lots of small 100 kiloton ones.

However, this means that a single bomb onto say........a duchy pretty much erases it from the game.

PS - the bomb count is off by quite a bit. I gots to remain some Secrecy in the game, mang!

[Coyote]

Zor

Where was the epicenter exactly? So we'd all know which parts of which countries will likely to be hit?

In a circle 35 kilometers in diameter 2500 Kilometers due south of the Qudlivun Free State.

Wouldn't that put it right in Libertopia?

[CmdrWilkens]

Nonetheless there does remain the quesiotn of how both Shep and Saddamistan are doing economically. Aside from the IRT there are no real trading partners,in fact most of the RPing has indicated an extremely closed system within Saddamistan itself which also means that its economy should be very little more than what it can consume for itself. With no sizeable foreign markets and only so much that 30million citizens can consume and produce how is Saddamistan paying, not just for the nukes but for the rest of its navy as well. I've got the world's individually largest but that's also because I'm almost sole sourcing biomeds to the MESS, have a huge export silver business, and a large domestic steel/tool/die industry even before naval shipbuilding comes into the equation and I STILL have to basically oeprate with light infantry only and an Army half the size of my navy just in personnel terms.

Simly put Shep can certainly afford to get 8+ GT of nukes since he drastically cut naval spending (though he did take on a rather large cost of fielding the Blackbeards up until recently) and was running basically an occupation economy in Neverhood for the last few years until the revolts started. I'm honestly wondering how Saddamistan is affording all of this.

[Zor]

Zor

Where was the epicenter exactly? So we'd all know which parts of which countries will likely to be hit?

In a circle 35 kilometers in diameter 2500 Kilometers due south of the Qudlivun Free State.

Wouldn't that put it right in Libertopia?

No, south of the gap between Libertopia and Adrianpolis.

Zor

[phongn]

Nonetheless there does remain the quesiotn of how both Shep and Saddamistan are doing economically. Aside from the IRT there are no real trading partners,in fact most of the RPing has indicated an extremely closed system within Saddamistan itself which also means that its economy should be very little more than what it can consume for itself.

AFAICT there was extensive trade with OMSK and FUN beforehand and while elements of them have blocked trade with the UAR, it isn't a complete thing, IIRC. Plus there are neutrals like the UKB.

With no sizeable foreign markets and only so much that 30million citizens can consume and produce how is Saddamistan paying, not just for the nukes but for the rest of its navy as well.

Well, the Navy was automatically granted as per the original rules, though who knows what's going on in there.

[Mr Bean]

Simly put Shep can certainly afford to get 8+ GT of nukes since he drastically cut naval spending (though he did take on a rather large cost of fielding the Blackbeards up until recently) and was running basically an occupation economy in Neverhood for the last few years until the revolts started. I'm honestly wondering how Saddamistan is affording all of this.

He made billions off of Blackbird because he manged to sell over 7,000 missiles plus launchers plus radar's eight countries, yes he had massive start-up costs. But now even New Patria has enough anti-ship missiles to make a Naval assault sucide.

Had Saddamstain been switched for a Beard equipped country during the Terra Libertia incident, your talking about being able to fire twenty missiles per ship before having to reload.

As Pezook noted, he has enough missles on hand to sink the entire grand Combined Mess Naval Force himself.

As noted the Blackbeard program has turned nearly all conventional warfare against most of the FUN into a losing game, minus strategic craft if you try a Naval assault it's going to get fucking MACROSS'd with six or eight missiles per ship to ensure 100% annihilation.

[MKSheppard]

Lets also take into account that a lot of world trade is in fungible commodities; it's going to be hard to know exactly where something came from or is going, unless you individually board and search every ship.