US Marine hands out Bible verses at Iraq checkpoint

[Darth Wong]

http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/meast/05/ ... index.html

Marine removed from duty over Bible coin reports

BAGHDAD, Iraq (CNN) -- A U.S. Marine in Iraq has been removed from duty amid complaints that he was handing out coins with Bible verses at an American checkpoint, the military said Thursday.

A military spokesman said Iraqis in Falluja complained that the Marine was giving the coins, which were printed in Arabic, to people at an entry control point in Falluja.

U.S. military regulations prohibit religious proselytizing.

"This has our full attention," said Col. James L. Welsh, chief of staff of Multi-National Force, West. "We deeply value our relationship with the local citizens and share their concerns over this serious incident."

At least one of the coins is stamped with the words "Where will you spend eternity?" according to a report published Thursday by McClatchy Newspapers.

The other side of the coin reportedly contains a verse from John 3:16 that reads, "For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish, but have eternal life."

Several Falluja residents said they were given the coins over a two-day period and complained that U.S. troops, whom they consider foreign occupiers, were acting as Christian missionaries.

"Regulations prohibit members of the coalition force from proselytizing any religion, faith or practices," said Col. Bill Buckner, a coalition spokesman. "Our troops are trained on those guidelines before they deploy."

A military statement said "appropriate action" will be taken if the reports are substantiated.

The reports stoked religious concerns in Iraq just weeks after Iraqi police discovered that a U.S. soldier had used the Quran, Islam's holy book, for target practice.

The U.S. commander in Baghdad took the unusual step of holding a public ceremony and reading a letter of apology from the soldier, a sniper section leader, to local Iraqi leaders.

Many in attendance were members and leaders of Sunni militias that the U.S. military has courted to help fight al Qaeda in Iraq and other insurgents. Sunnis often face criticism from other Iraqis for cooperating with American troops.

Falluja, also a mostly Sunni city, was the scene of bitter and bloody fighting early in the Iraq war between U.S. troops, al Qaeda in Iraq and Sunni insurgents loyal to Saddam Hussein.

Fucking fundies. I'm sure every one of them was briefed on how this is explicitly against the rules. I imagine he believes that his right to religious expression is being violated.

[Dargos]

Yes, it is very explicitly briefed that you are NOT to proselytize. The "Appropriate action" against this idiot will most likely be redeployment back to his home station and maybe an Article 15.

Whats really sad is that things like this can get others killed down range.

[KlavoHunter]

What a fucking moron. Iraq is not the fucking place to go trying to proselytize, especially when you're a member of the military. It is not your job to convert people. Maybe if you're a fairly suicidal civilian member of a proselytizing church...

This coming on the heels of the Koran Target Practice fuckup is only going to set things back further in Iraq.

[sketerpot]

I wish this dumbass had just done something relatively minor, like sabotaging a few US tanks. The big problem that the soldiers in Iraq face is that the locals hate their guts, and a bit of good PR is going to be more effective than all the bullets in the world. Then this inexcusably stupid marine goes around explicitly reinforcing the idea that this is a religious crusade! He's either a total mental defective or a very effective traitor.

The only good thing about this is that they held a public ceremony to apologize. At least someone over there has his head on straight.

[KlavoHunter]

Anyone want to place bets on how many people will be killed in the inevitable rioting caused by this dumb son of a bitch's irrational urge to attempt to force Christianity on people who are already quite happy with their own religion?

[Enforcer Talen]

Im wondering where his squad was, honestly. Or what was going on in his head.

Most marines Ive met at the checkpoints cant stand the Iraqis - why would he want to save their souls/touch them by giving them coins?

But yeah, expect a lot of propaganda about being crusaders and zionists and apostates, and expect exaggerated reporting going around the town of how we held down people and baptized them in pigs blood, or something.

[Patrick Degan]

Fucking fundies. I'm sure every one of them was briefed on how this is explicitly against the rules. I imagine he believes that his right to religious expression is being violated.

I'm sure he was convinced he was following orders from God, who presumably outranks his C.O.

[Dooey Jo]

It's nice to see that America's goals about winning the hearts and minds of the people ends up like an episode of Fawlty Towers:
"Whatever you do, don't proselytize! I proselytized once but I think I got away with it."

How hard can it be to not be a stupid dumbass?
"What? Not shoot the Quran? I thought the Quran was their traditional toilet reading."
"What? Not hand out Bible verses to the Muslims who think we're on a crusade? I thought that was the only way to make the infidel dogs find Christ."

[Pelranius]

Maybe this is his way of getting a one way ticket back home without looking like he's jumping ship? After all, the rednecks back home won't chew you up for being taken out of theater for preaching the good word of the Lord, will they?

[Zixinus]

Maybe this is his way of getting a one way ticket back home without looking like he's jumping ship? After all, the rednecks back home won't chew you up for being taken out of theater for preaching the good word of the Lord, will they?

I am pretty sure that there may be better ways to do that and ways far less embarrassing (bet you a dollar that his senior officer did some shouting at him). He isn't relieved of military duty entirely and I don't think be became a marine to then freak out. Also, his ploy is overly hard just to get out: he made coins.

These people most likely cannot grasp the idea that what they are doing is annoying people whom have a medieval mentality that can end up in an angry mob. An angry mob not with torches and pitchforks but Kalasknikovs and RPGs (most likely). These are people you want to make your way not to piss off.

What a fucking moron. Iraq is not the fucking place to go trying to proselytize, especially when you're a member of the military. It is not your job to convert people. Maybe if you're a fairly suicidal civilian member of a proselytizing church...

I think the word "proselytizing" may have been too long to him.

[Lonestar]

I have a vague memory of something going like this...

The people came unto Christ and asked Him if they should pay taxes unto Caesar.
And Jesus replied: "Who's picture is on the coins?"

Hmm....

[KlavoHunter]

I think the word "proselytizing" may have been too long to him.

Heck, if it was long enough for me to have to spellcheck to get it right, it was most assuredly too long for him.

[Death from the Sea]

this is kinda in the same vein of stupidity of the shooting the Koran...

[The Yosemite Bear]

It could be worse, he could have been giving them Chick tracts.....

[Zwinmar]

one word to describe this guy..

dumbass

[hongi]

Somewhat off-topic, but can someone help me out here? Are you allowed to do this?

The project came into being when a chaplain in Iraq (who has since finished his tour) requested some books from Bible Pathway Ministries. The resulting product is a 6"x9" 496-page illustrated book with embossed cover containing 366 daily devotional commentaries, maps, charts, and additional helpful information.

Chief Warrant Officer of the 101st Airborne Division, Rene Llanos, says the devotionals are missionary tools. "The soldiers who are patrolling and walking the streets are taking along this copy, and they're using it to minister to the local residents. Our division is also getting ready to head toward Afghanistan, so there will be copies heading out with the soldiers."

[The Duchess of Zeon]

I wish I knew this guy's name. The homeschooling circle which my parents raised me in had a family where the father was a Marine veteran, and both his oldest sons also became Marines, who are currently deployed to that area of Iraq (or probably are). They're fundamentalist enough to do it, too.

[Flagg]

http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/meast/05/ ... index.html

Marine removed from duty over Bible coin reports

BAGHDAD, Iraq (CNN) -- A U.S. Marine in Iraq has been removed from duty amid complaints that he was handing out coins with Bible verses at an American checkpoint, the military said Thursday.

A military spokesman said Iraqis in Falluja complained that the Marine was giving the coins, which were printed in Arabic, to people at an entry control point in Falluja.

U.S. military regulations prohibit religious proselytizing.

"This has our full attention," said Col. James L. Welsh, chief of staff of Multi-National Force, West. "We deeply value our relationship with the local citizens and share their concerns over this serious incident."

At least one of the coins is stamped with the words "Where will you spend eternity?" according to a report published Thursday by McClatchy Newspapers.

The other side of the coin reportedly contains a verse from John 3:16 that reads, "For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish, but have eternal life."

Several Falluja residents said they were given the coins over a two-day period and complained that U.S. troops, whom they consider foreign occupiers, were acting as Christian missionaries.

"Regulations prohibit members of the coalition force from proselytizing any religion, faith or practices," said Col. Bill Buckner, a coalition spokesman. "Our troops are trained on those guidelines before they deploy."

A military statement said "appropriate action" will be taken if the reports are substantiated.

The reports stoked religious concerns in Iraq just weeks after Iraqi police discovered that a U.S. soldier had used the Quran, Islam's holy book, for target practice.

The U.S. commander in Baghdad took the unusual step of holding a public ceremony and reading a letter of apology from the soldier, a sniper section leader, to local Iraqi leaders.

Many in attendance were members and leaders of Sunni militias that the U.S. military has courted to help fight al Qaeda in Iraq and other insurgents. Sunnis often face criticism from other Iraqis for cooperating with American troops.

Falluja, also a mostly Sunni city, was the scene of bitter and bloody fighting early in the Iraq war between U.S. troops, al Qaeda in Iraq and Sunni insurgents loyal to Saddam Hussein.

Only in this country would a news outlet actually say something as fucking retarded as "U.S. troops, whom they consider foreign occupiers". So what the fuck are US Troops in Iraq if not "foreign occupiers"?

[Enforcer Talen]

Liberators!

[Shroom Man 777]

Freedomizers!

Man, I cannot believe how shitty it is to be a mang in Falluja right now. Didn't the Americans commit atrocities when they freedomized that city? White phosphorus, anyone?

[Kitsune]

I guess my thoughts is that I expect this activity just like the soldier who shot the Koran. I would not be surprised if it has happened before once or even multiple times and not just from American soldiers. The key word should not be American but Fundamentalist. Many of the soldiers around him likely consider him nuts.

I have a friend who lives in the Netherlands and her has talked about having a fundamentalist co-worker so they are everywhere....

[Knife]

Freedomizers!

Man, I cannot believe how shitty it is to be a mang in Falluja right now. Didn't the Americans commit atrocities when they freedomized that city? White phosphorus, anyone?

I remember the reports of troops using CS gas, not WP. In any case, either or, I don't remember those reports in conjunction with atrocities.

[Enforcer Talen]

Freedomizers!

Man, I cannot believe how shitty it is to be a mang in Falluja right now. Didn't the Americans commit atrocities when they freedomized that city? White phosphorus, anyone?

I remember reading about WP during Al Fajr, but we can discuss whether thats an atrocity or just combat if you like.

[The Yosemite Bear]

It's like barbed wire, shotguns, shooting people rather then vehicles with machine guns. Incindiaries are a weapon of terror as defined by international treaty. And Like other nations, we still use them.

[Sephirius]

Incindiaries are a weapon of terror

I never get over how patently fucking stupid these 'rules of war' can sometimes be. WP is a very effective weapon for urban ops, and while I can't say that it's a nice thing to get hit with; but neither are 5.56 rounds. Plus, it allows soldiers to not have to get into such close quarters to deal with enemy force, they can use the WP as a standoff weapon such that they do not expose themselves to undue hazards.