SD.net's World OOC/Discussion thread MK IV

[PeZook]

Goddamn it, phong has a point! FUCK!

It's too bad. If we stay out of this, and the UAR wins the exchange, we'll be at their mercy anyway.

Though I don't really think they can actually win. They are two Imperiums, but they have the entire world against them, with a whole lot of Tsardoms and Kingdoms.

It's up to them right now. It would've come down to this sooner or later, anyway.

[Coiler]

The leadership of Coilerburg would also like to get in on the FUN/MESS conference.

[Shroom Man 777]

I suggest we keep the smaller FUN nations out of the line of fire - somehow.

And PeZook... get on the Google Doc ISCA budget page!

[phongn]

Goddamn it, phong has a point! FUCK!

You're damn right I did! You could've stayed out of this and been the superpower once the shooting stopped! But no, you had to do internationalist posturing!

I suggest we keep the smaller FUN nations out of the line of fire - somehow.

The entire alliance threw down the gauntlet, you're all fair game.

It's too bad. If we stay out of this, and the UAR wins the exchange, we'll be at their mercy anyway.

So, you'd rather be hit by a hail of nuclear and biological weapons? The UAR - so far - hasn't taken any actions against the FUN whatsoever, despite the trade embargo.

Though I don't really think they can actually win. They are two Imperiums, but they have the entire world against them, with a whole lot of Tsardoms and Kingdoms.

Which isn't that relevant, because the UAR has enough strategic delivery systems to even the odds, while everyone else has - finally - scrambled to build incomplete civil, air and missile defense systems.

[PeZook]

So, you'd rather be hit by a hail of nuclear and biological weapons? The UAR - so far - hasn't taken any actions against the FUN whatsoever, despite the trade embargo.

Yes, because I don't like the idea of cowering down every time an insane maniac waves a gun at the world.

Every nuke that hits the FUN is one which doesn't hit a MESS target. Besides, if the UAR had any nukes left after the exchange, they'd have blasted us anyway just to prevent the FUN from becoming the last, lone superpower.

[phongn]

Yes, because I don't like the idea of cowering down every time an insane maniac waves a gun at the world.

You'd be alive, instead. Had this happened a game-year later or so, you would've been in a much better position to make threats like this with a tight air-defense. But you don't have that now.

Every nuke that hits the FUN is one which doesn't hit a MESS target. Besides, if the UAR had any nukes left after the exchange, they'd have blasted us anyway just to prevent the FUN from becoming the last, lone superpower.

You, bluntly, should have the view that every weapon the UAR expends against the MESS is one they don't expend on you. Not issuing that ultimatum very likely would ensure a greater balance against them despite the "spread the love" plan.

[PeZook]

You'd be alive, instead. Had this happened a game-year later or so, you would've been in a much better position to make threats like this with a tight air-defense. But you don't have that now.

I'd still be screwed, because Shepnukistan would put their Mach 4 atomic cruise missiles into mass production, and I don't have the money to keep up and deploy a completely new air defence system.

[CmdrWilkens]

Which isn't that relevant, because the UAR has enough strategic delivery systems to even the odds, while everyone else has - finally - scrambled to build incomplete civil, air and missile defense systems.

Aside from the fact that we've been arguing about how much Shep could realistically have built in terms of MTs he hasn't demonstrated anything aside from cruise and Airborne delivered weaponry all of which are much more easily engaged by the rather massive superiority we carry in conventional forces. Simply put he doesn't have the numbers to blitz through the defenses arrayed against him.

[Lonestar]

Shep already told me in IM that he intends to send everything he has against the LSR and ignore all other targets, due to the LSR nuke fabrication facilities.

[CmdrWilkens]

Shep already told me in IM that he intends to send everything he has against the LSR and ignore all other targets, due to the LSR nuke fabrication facilities.

Which makes sense since he basically just granted that he wouldn't touch me by saying he wouldn't overfly the Bear Republic.

[Raj Ahten]

Well there is Shepnukistan, and the there is his ally Sadaam. Sadaam could well spread the Bio and chem love around to lots of people.

[Shinn Langley Soryu]

I go off to sleep, and when I wake up, I find out that the Doomsday Clock is now ticking one minute to midnight.

[Shroom Man 777]

Shep is officially a madman. I swear, if it was my mang on the telephone with him, my mang would've been in tears! Weeping blood!

Jesus Christ.

[MKSheppard]

Which makes sense since he basically just granted that he wouldn't touch me by saying he wouldn't overfly the Bear Republic.

200 KC-10s disagree with you.

Declaring the UKB, IRT, and Bear Republic Neutrals hurts you more than me; because I got the heavy tanker support to refuel my bombers as they do the huge round trip back and forth; while you; you have no other option but to violate neutral airspace on a massive scale, due to your lack of any aerial refuelling worth a damn.

And the Bear Republic is surprisngly well armed -- like 500~ or so semi-stealthy fighter aircraft; that'll put a hurt on any attacking force.

[Shroom Man 777]

The Bear Republic is a member of the FUN.

[MKSheppard]

It is? Well Goddamn!

[CmdrWilkens]

Which makes sense since he basically just granted that he wouldn't touch me by saying he wouldn't overfly the Bear Republic.

200 KC-10s disagree with you.

Declaring the UKB, IRT, and Bear Republic Neutrals hurts you more than me; because I got the heavy tanker support to refuel my bombers as they do the huge round trip back and forth; while you; you have no other option but to violate neutral airspace on a massive scale, due to your lack of any aerial refuelling worth a damn.

Alternatively it means that I no longer have to defend the VAST majority of approaches while normal radar coverage will already alert me to whether you are trying to pass through the neck between Colin and Phong or going the long way around. Either way it means I can concentrate all my defenses and layer them as I've got 2 carriers back in port which just surged so that's another 100 or so interceptors to contend with (plus any SAM traps I can deploy) even before you hit my actual air defenses and the next 100 plus interceptors.

So basically you would have to either squeeze all your forces down the very narrow bottleneck between IRT and the Bear Republic (which probably means I can just blast SM-2s into the airspace and get hits) or go the long way around which subjects you to multiple strikes from carrier AND land based aircraft before you can get reliable target fixes.

That's before we consider any difficulties arising from the fact that the long way ALSO puts you in range of Tian Xia and LSR based craft especially from their naval air contingents which would be available as well. Simply put you can throw 300 bombers at us and we can throw more than 300 fighters in mutliple waves plus sea and land based SAMs. If you strip your fighters to provide cover then you leave yourself open to attack from the CJTF to your south along with Canissia, Shinra, and Byzantium.

[phongn]

That's before we consider any difficulties arising from the fact that the long way ALSO puts you in range of Tian Xia and LSR based craft especially from their naval air contingents which would be available as well. Simply put you can throw 300 bombers at us and we can throw more than 300 fighters in mutliple waves plus sea and land based SAMs.

There's the problem for you guys (defending) that there's a lot of area to try and detect Shep's raid with. Add in the capable ECM and ESM suite on his bombers and he might be able to "thread" the naval assets deployed to defend the eastern approaches to the MESS. By the time he enters land-based AEW range it might be too late to get off a good response to him. Plus, he'll be rolling back your air-defense systems with nukes, too.

There's also Saddam's craziness to consider.

[MKSheppard]

Simply put you can throw 300 bombers at us and we can throw more than 300 fighters in mutliple waves plus sea and land based SAMs. If you strip your fighters to provide cover then you leave yourself open to attack from the CJTF to your south along with Canissia, Shinra, and Byzantium.

I'm not particularly worried about fighters or SAMs.

The RB-1D and B-1Cs are significantly upgraded B-1s which fly even higher and faster than the original B-1A would ever have; I point you out to the attack on TF-23 which was carried out by a lone RB-1D at 60,000 feet; that makes it a swine to intercept for anything but a but a F-22, because only the F-22 is certified to operate above 55,000 feet due to the pilot's suit being a partial pressure suit.

And don't forget that the B-1Cs and RB-1Ds shoot back. It's not a problem to reprogram a SRAM to attack a fixed point, such as a SAM site, or to aim it at a fixed point in mid-air, to take out enemy fighters with 100 kilotons of sunrise -- fun fact, in the good old days of SAC; one of the tactics was to fire a SRAM literally over the shoulder of a B-52; the missile would actually loop over the bomber's wing and nuke a whole bunch of MiGs trying to intercept it. Much better than a 20mm Vulcan.

And unlike the B-1B; we got the EW outfit to work, which makes your job a lot harder.

*sings* Oh, for the good old days of flaming SAM sites with nuclear stand off missiles....*sings*

[Shroom Man 777]

I am weeping blood.

[CmdrWilkens]

That's before we consider any difficulties arising from the fact that the long way ALSO puts you in range of Tian Xia and LSR based craft especially from their naval air contingents which would be available as well. Simply put you can throw 300 bombers at us and we can throw more than 300 fighters in mutliple waves plus sea and land based SAMs.

There's the problem for you guys (defending) that there's a lot of area to try and detect Shep's raid with. Add in the capable ECM and ESM suite on his bombers and he might be able to "thread" the naval assets deployed to defend the eastern approaches to the MESS. By the time he enters land-based AEW range it might be too late to get off a good response to him. Plus, he'll be rolling back your air-defense systems with nukes, too.

There's also Saddam's craziness to consider.

Him throwing up ECM just tells me which way he is coming and it won't help him when you've got half the AEGIS systems in the world lighting off at full blast. His bombers are not going to be able to stop that and if he is loaded to go land attack then he doesn't have the right tools to attack the naval assets. In turn every ship he outfits for ASM is one less Strike mission profile he has available. That's even before we run back into the fact that we can put more ships and more planes and a shitload more missiles into any airspace he comes through.

Oh yes and that's BEFORE considering that Colin is a FUN member which means Shep may consider him non-belligerent but likely he isn't which means another 500+ fighters that he would have to bypass just to even begin circling the IRT. Yes Shep has a formidable strike force but getting it there means trying to push through 4 or more CVBGs that are running on DefCon 1 or 2 with land based aircraft to back them up OR pushing through 500+ interceptors in the Bear Republic and then engaging those same 4+ CVBGs and land based craft.

[MKSheppard]

Him throwing up ECM just tells me which way he is coming and it won't help him when you've got half the AEGIS systems in the world lighting off at full blast.

They cause an uncertainity principle; you're no longer certain of the bombers' precise location; and many advanced EW systems can actually send back radar signals to misdirect the radar to where the bomber is; Stuart once saw a plot of the actual flight path of a SR-71 and a track of it from a radar. The two were totally different, and the SR-71 is what, 40 years old.

His bombers are not going to be able to stop that and if he is loaded to go land attack then he doesn't have the right tools to attack the naval assets. In turn every ship he outfits for ASM is one less Strike mission profile he has available.

The SRAM-B has a top speed of Mach 3.2 and a maximum range of 100 miles. At those speeds, it traverses 0.55 miles per second, and takes only 181 seconds to reach it's target. A ship moving at 33 knots moves at 0.01 miles per second. Which means that the ship will have travelled 1.81 miles in the time it takes the SRAM to reach it's target.

Oh, and the SRAM has a 100 kiloton warhead.

Yes Shep has a formidable strike force but getting it there means trying to push through 4 or more CVBGs that are running on DefCon 1 or 2 with land based aircraft to back them up OR pushing through 500+ interceptors in the Bear Republic and then engaging those same 4+ CVBGs and land based craft.

You'd be surprised how much things change when you're flinging nuclear tipped stand-off missiles to burn holes in the enemy air defenses. Why do you think the Soviets spent so much on their Air Defense Network? Because they liked spending money?

You think Phong is spending megabucks on an integrated air defense system because he likes to do that?

[MKSheppard]

And I'm going to take a nap; I've been up for nearly 24 hours now.....weeeee

Oh yeah, don't start global thermonuclear war without me or Skimmer.

[RogueIce]

Oh yeah, don't start global thermonuclear war without me or Skimmer.

I think that goes without saying.

If the rest of us were to "start" anything it'd be a sudden outbreak of "Peace, Love, and Happiness!" from the UAR.

[Master_Baerne]

Quick, kill Shep while he's asleep!