Pakistani teacher kills blind boy for not learning Koran

wautd · Post by **wautd** » 2008-06-02 07:22am

Teacher tortures, kills boy

Multan, Pakistan - A blind seven-year-old student at an Islamic school in eastern Pakistan has died after his teacher punished him for not learning the Qu'ran, police said on Friday.

Muhammad Atif was hung upside down from a ceiling fan and severely beaten by his teacher, Qari Ziauddin, at the seminary or madrassa in Vihari, near Lahore on Thursday, they said.

Pakistani Prime Minister Yousuf Raza Gilani had ordered an inquiry into the death, an official statement said.

"The prime minister has expressed his deep sorrow and concern over the tragic death of Muhammad Atif, who reportedly died as a result of corporal punishment by his teacher," the statement said.

Police said the teacher had been arrested on charges of torturing and murdering the boy.

"Qari Ziauddin, who teaches Qu'ran to boys in Qari Latif Islamic school, hanged Atif upside down on a ceiling fan in the school after beating him with sticks, which caused his death," local police official Akram Niazi told AFP.

The teacher also failed to take the boy to hospital after he fell ill and his condition deteriorated, he said.

Police said a post-mortem report also confirmed physical torture as the cause of death.

Pakistan's 13 000 registered madrassas offer free schooling and board to hundreds of thousands of poor children in this devout nation, but some have also been linked to Islamic extremism.

Singular Intellect · Post by **Singular Intellect** » 2008-06-02 09:50am

I'm certain there's a valid religious explanation in the Koran explaining that not only was this completely acceptable, but the teacher in question wasn't harsh enough either.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2008-06-02 09:52am

If the Koran is half as harsh as the Bible, there must be.

Feil · Post by **Feil** » 2008-06-02 10:54am

The Koran is just like the Bible: you can make it say anything. On the one hand, you have exhortations to holy war and things like Surah 4, verse 89 ("[Unbelievers] desire that you should disbelieve as they have disbelieved, so that you might be (all) alike; therefore take not from among them friends until they fly (their homes) in Allah's way; but if they turn back, then seize them and kill them wherever you find them[...].") On the other hand, the bulk of the Koran says to leave the judgment of unbelievers who aren't actively persecuting you to Allah, who will torture them in Hell forever.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2008-06-02 10:57am

Feil wrote:The Koran is just like the Bible: you can make it say anything. On the one hand, you have exhortations to holy war and things like Surah 4, verse 89 ("[Unbelievers] desire that you should disbelieve as they have disbelieved, so that you might be (all) alike; therefore take not from among them friends until they fly (their homes) in Allah's way; but if they turn back, then seize them and kill them wherever you find them[...].") On the other hand, the bulk of the Koran says to leave the judgment of unbelievers who aren't actively persecuting you to Allah, who will torture them in Hell forever.

Not much difference as far as I'm concerned. Either way, it is portrayed as a good thing to torture people for committing victimless "crimes". It's the same problem the Bible has. Even if it says that God should do the torturing, it's not much of a restraint. God, after all, is supposed to be their role model, and their guidepost for what is good and bad behaviour.

Kanastrous · Post by **Kanastrous** » 2008-06-02 11:08am

If only Ziahuddin had killed a girl, he might be off scot-free...

Mr. Coffee · Post by **Mr. Coffee** » 2008-06-02 11:25am

Ok, so why is it we can't implement the SHEP Doctrine again?

Singular Intellect · Post by **Singular Intellect** » 2008-06-02 11:28am

Darth Wong wrote:Either way, it is portrayed as a good thing to torture people for committing victimless "crimes". It's the same problem the Bible has. Even if it says that God should do the torturing, it's not much of a restraint. God, after all, is supposed to be their role model, and their guidepost for what is good and bad behaviour.

And what better way to show your love of god than to enthusiastically be like him! The more infidels you kill, the more the light of Allah shines upon you!

Feil · Post by **Feil** » 2008-06-02 11:44am

Bubble Boy wrote:
Darth Wong wrote:Either way, it is portrayed as a good thing to torture people for committing victimless "crimes". It's the same problem the Bible has. Even if it says that God should do the torturing, it's not much of a restraint. God, after all, is supposed to be their role model, and their guidepost for what is good and bad behaviour.
And what better way to show your love of god than to enthusiastically be like him! The more infidels you kill, the more the light of Allah shines upon you!

It doesn't work like that. God gets to do evil things because he's always right because the holy book says so and God wrote it, so since he's always right you know the holy book is correct, but we aren't allowed, because we cannot know the mind of God and it would be wrong for us to do it. Hey, nobody said Abrahamic religions were logical.

Besides, showing your love for a ruler generally doesn't mean usurping his authority. The problem exists, but it's a consequence of the theology, not an aspect of it.

General Zod · Post by **General Zod** » 2008-06-02 11:57am

Feil wrote: It doesn't work like that. God gets to do evil things because he's always right because the holy book says so and God wrote it, so since he's always right you know the holy book is correct, but we aren't allowed, because we cannot know the mind of God and it would be wrong for us to do it. Hey, nobody said Abrahamic religions were logical.

The fact that they're not logical is exactly the point. There's so many possible interpretations of the "holy book", who are you to say someone else's interpretation is wrong?

Sidewinder · Post by **Sidewinder** » 2008-06-02 12:25pm

Islamist apologist wrote:The boy is blind in accordance to Allah's will! Therefore, Allah Himself intended the boy to not learn the Koran, in accordance to a divine plan of His, the purpose of which is not within our power to understand!

Seriously, the teacher did NOT notice the fucking obvious disability the boy has, and attempt to accomodate for this disability and help him overcome it, e.g., by getting a Braille edition of the Koran (assuming they exist)?

Sidewinder · Post by **Sidewinder** » 2008-06-02 12:32pm

Mr. Coffee wrote:Ok, so why is it we can't implement the SHEP Doctrine again?

Simple explanation: nukes are expensive, delivery vehicles (missiles, bombers, etc.) are expensive, and we might need those nukes for fighting the Russians and Chinese and Norks.

KlavoHunter · Post by **KlavoHunter** » 2008-06-02 01:36pm

Given Florida's downward spiral, perhaps we should replace "Florida or Germany?" with a new game, "Florida or Middle East?".

RedImperator · Post by **RedImperator** » 2008-06-02 07:40pm

Mr. Coffee wrote:Ok, so why is it we can't implement the SHEP Doctrine again?

Because....it would cause a hideous painful death to all the women, children, nonconformists, and others whose mistreatment is the nominal cause of all the outrage in threads like these? Just a thought.

ArmorPierce · Post by **ArmorPierce** » 2008-06-02 07:46pm

Sidewinder wrote:
Islamist apologist wrote:The boy is blind in accordance to Allah's will! Therefore, Allah Himself intended the boy to not learn the Koran, in accordance to a divine plan of His, the purpose of which is not within our power to understand!
Seriously, the teacher did NOT notice the fucking obvious disability the boy has, and attempt to accomodate for this disability and help him overcome it, e.g., by getting a Braille edition of the Koran (assuming they exist)?

Fairly possible that it does not. In Pakistan I wouldn't be surprised if they only allowed the koran to be printed in Arabic since those were the words that Mohammad wrote in. Some countries have done away with that rule though.

Singular Intellect · Post by **Singular Intellect** » 2008-06-02 08:05pm

RedImperator wrote:
Mr. Coffee wrote:Ok, so why is it we can't implement the SHEP Doctrine again?
Because....it would cause a hideous painful death to all the women, children, nonconformists, and others whose mistreatment is the nominal cause of all the outrage in threads like these? Just a thought.

To play devil's advocate, it's been said sometimes one must sacrifice healthy tissue to kill the cancer.

RedImperator · Post by **RedImperator** » 2008-06-02 09:17pm

Bubble Boy wrote:
RedImperator wrote:
Mr. Coffee wrote:Ok, so why is it we can't implement the SHEP Doctrine again?
Because....it would cause a hideous painful death to all the women, children, nonconformists, and others whose mistreatment is the nominal cause of all the outrage in threads like these? Just a thought.
To play devil's advocate, it's been said sometimes one must sacrifice healthy tissue to kill the cancer.

If you want to use a cancer analogy, the Shep solution is like throwing the entire patient into an industrial furnace--alive. Remember, the outrage in all these threads is ostensibly about the mistreatment of someone living in one of these countries. So every time some idiot starts yapping "Nuke 'em!", what he's really saying is "I'm so angry about this woman getting stoned to death for being raped, I think we should incinerate her daughters, her mother, her sisters, her aunts, her grandmothers, and every other woman and girl in her country--and the ones we don't incinerate, they can starve or die of awful Medieval diseases. That'll teach those misogynists not to mistreat women."

The cancer analogy would work if you accepted the paranoid delusional premise that radical Islam is seeping into, and undermining the west, and if it isn't stopped, the entire world will be Talibanized, and there was no other way to stop it. But nobody in this thread or most of these threads is arguing that. Certainly Mr. Coffee wasn't.

hongi · Post by **hongi** » 2008-06-02 09:25pm

I was thinking about what to post yesterday, but I really couldn't summon up words to describe my outrage.

Kanastrous · Post by **Kanastrous** » 2008-06-02 09:33pm

I wish my first reaction to stories like this, was outrage.

But it's usually more of a shrug, a sense of inevitability, and recalling the old adage, dogs delight to bark and bite.

Singular Intellect · Post by **Singular Intellect** » 2008-06-02 10:24pm

RedImperator wrote:
Bubble Boy wrote:
RedImperator wrote: Because....it would cause a hideous painful death to all the women, children, nonconformists, and others whose mistreatment is the nominal cause of all the outrage in threads like these? Just a thought.
To play devil's advocate, it's been said sometimes one must sacrifice healthy tissue to kill the cancer.
If you want to use a cancer analogy, the Shep solution is like throwing the entire patient into an industrial furnace--alive. Remember, the outrage in all these threads is ostensibly about the mistreatment of someone living in one of these countries. So every time some idiot starts yapping "Nuke 'em!", what he's really saying is "I'm so angry about this woman getting stoned to death for being raped, I think we should incinerate her daughters, her mother, her sisters, her aunts, her grandmothers, and every other woman and girl in her country--and the ones we don't incinerate, they can starve or die of awful Medieval diseases. That'll teach those misogynists not to mistreat women."

The cancer analogy would work if you accepted the paranoid delusional premise that radical Islam is seeping into, and undermining the west, and if it isn't stopped, the entire world will be Talibanized, and there was no other way to stop it. But nobody in this thread or most of these threads is arguing that. Certainly Mr. Coffee wasn't.

Well, I could really go out and continue playing devil's advocate on the issue, but since it's not really my position I don't really see the point other than making a tangent that might piss some people off.

Illuminatus Primus · Post by **Illuminatus Primus** » 2008-06-02 11:45pm

You could have just shut up instead of telling us what good arguments you have stored up in your brain but mercifully denied levying against us, and veering the thread off-course.

Mayabird · Post by **Mayabird** » 2008-06-03 12:17am

Kanastrous wrote:If only Ziahuddin had killed a girl, he might be off scot-free...

You sillyhead, you know a girl wouldn't be learning to read.

That being said, the more I think about it, the more I realize how messed up it all is.

TithonusSyndrome · Post by **TithonusSyndrome** » 2008-06-03 12:19am

ArmorPierce wrote:
Sidewinder wrote:
Islamist apologist wrote:The boy is blind in accordance to Allah's will! Therefore, Allah Himself intended the boy to not learn the Koran, in accordance to a divine plan of His, the purpose of which is not within our power to understand!
Seriously, the teacher did NOT notice the fucking obvious disability the boy has, and attempt to accomodate for this disability and help him overcome it, e.g., by getting a Braille edition of the Koran (assuming they exist)?
Fairly possible that it does not. In Pakistan I wouldn't be surprised if they only allowed the koran to be printed in Arabic since those were the words that Mohammad wrote in. Some countries have done away with that rule though.

I wouldn't be surprised either to learn that the instructor was completely convinced that the Holy Kuran could literally just seep into his brain by osmosis because Allah is merciful and all that. That the kid didn't understand just meant he was resisting Allah's revelation to him.

Mr. Coffee · Post by **Mr. Coffee** » 2008-06-03 08:39am

RedImperator wrote:The cancer analogy would work if you accepted the paranoid delusional premise that radical Islam is seeping into, and undermining the west, and if it isn't stopped, the entire world will be Talibanized, and there was no other way to stop it. But nobody in this thread or most of these threads is arguing that. Certainly Mr. Coffee wasn't.

I wasn't being serious with that either, Red. It just that stories like this coming out of part of the planet just don't grab me anymore. It's like almost once every other week we'll see on the news "Woman who didn't do anything wrong other than not having been born with a penis is (Stoned/Hanged/Beaten To Death) in (Suadia Arabia/Iran/Countries that end in Stan)". Lately it's like only two kinds of news comes out of that part of the planet, either it's someone in the US military does something retarded and pisses off the locals or it's some sort of random atrocity against women.

One of the things about that whole peak oil thing is the thought of Middle Eastern oil wells going dry. Let's face it, the only reason the rest of the world even remotely gives a shit that part of the planet is because oil, and as soon as they run out the sooner the rest of us can tell the Middle East to go pound sand.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2008-06-03 10:18am

Conservatives seem to be very insecure about our society. They're always terrified that something will come along and completely tear down everything our society has built. The threat might be gays or socialism or atheists or Muslims, but it's always the same fear. And they make our society a worse place to live in because of that fear.