SD.net's World OOC/Discussion thread MK IV

[MKSheppard]

Look, here's the deal. You built 8 gigatons almost instantly. You had concentrated them in 100 megaton devices (presumably of the "Ivan" type). That's tons of nuclear material, isn't it? The best weight ratio is 18 MT per 1 ton of weight, that means you have aquired 444 tons of uranium (that is if ALL your devices are Ivan-type superbombs, and not less efficient ones).

Actually 50 MT devices. The 100 MT IVAN Shot I did was a prototype, because it needed a HEU U235 Jacket to get it's full yield; so I decided to delete the U235 jacket on the production models to save fissile.

I need about 45-50 kg of HEU for the fission primary, which lights off the fusion secondary, the materials for which are quite a bit easier to get than Plutonium or HEU.

Yes, that's 900 devices. Even if there's a scant 45 kg of fissile material, that would only be 40,5 tons. Not 400-1000 tons - the amount YOU need, Shep.

Don't go quoting the dry weight of my TN bombs, and then pretending that all of that is HEU.

Why? There's only so many of them. If we assume 50kt devices, that means that sole rail-mobile battery can rain 45 megatons on you in 30 minutes with dispersal; not too bad.

Sure. Yeah, go head. Waste all your fissile on that.

There's no major flaw: you'll obliterate everyone, but your citizens will die. Deal with it.

A few coastal cities are an acceptable loss anyway. You think I was planning for a totally invunerable shield? I don't have the last 50 years of ASAT/SAM/Interceptors that either the OTL USSR in the late 80s or the TBOverse USA has.

[Coyote]

Shep, are you blasting:

Canissian military airfields in the northern provinces?
Canissian military airfields ALL OVER Canissia?
--are civilian airfields also being hit?

Are you striking only at Canissia proper, or at all MESS airfields?

[MKSheppard]

Shep, are you blasting:

Canissian military airfields in the northern provinces?
Canissian military airfields ALL OVER Canissia?
--are civilian airfields also being hit?

Are you striking only at Canissia proper, or at all MESS airfields?

An attack of 200~ missiles (originally 300, but 70~ got shot down) sounds impressive on paper; but there's a lot of things to destroy at a single airfield; and you can't be assured of one missile = one building destroyed, due to losses in flight or random bad luck; so buildings have to be multi-targeted; to ensure destricuction.

I'd say the primary Canissian military airfields in the northern provinces got hit to varying extents; damage varies from "every major building got hit or something" to "light damage from broken windows and a destroyed hangar".

However, that said, there were a few "harassing" attacks on airfields in the midlands of Canissia; by cluster bomblet carrying missiles; just enough to cause chaos and shut down a runway or so, while the EOD crews clear them. That said, I'd say only perhaps one or two midland airfields is full of enough bomblets to shut it down; the rest just have annoyances, like "Do not go onto taxi-way 12F, it is full of bomblets"

[RogueIce]

Hey Shep, if you're attending that conference, I assume it means your attacks on MESS naval assets got called off before anyone fired a shot?

Because the whole basis of the conference will fall apart if you're busy trying to nuke our navies.

[MKSheppard]

Hey Shep, if you're attending that conference, I assume it means your attacks on MESS naval assets got called off before anyone fired a shot?

Essentially yes.

[CmdrWilkens]

Allrighty Shep there are the terms you are welcome to counter propose but that is where we stand.

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

Just so no one noticed or paid attention, and I shall say it out here now: I gave 5 BMP-3s and 5 BTR-90s and the required ammunition to Ramsley for his own personal protection. Much of his defensive forces was destroyed by the Tsunami, though most survived since they were on the other side of the island. He has no more vehicles under his possession since Shep screwed them up. I am monitoring those vehicles now and they are still under my control and I haven't turned them over yet (they don't even know how to operate the darn things).

[Shroom Man 777]

Better that way, I suppose. Ramsley and his followers will now have to find a path to peace. With the Sultanate and Alexandria also being hit in the face by a near-nuclear war, perhaps this can bring about a better future in Terra Libertia.

[K. A. Pital]

I need about 45-50 kg of HEU for the fission primary

Ah. In that case, my bad

A few coastal cities are an acceptable loss anyway.

Well sure. We could I assume kill around 10 million people if we try hard to shell the urban centers. Your civil defense is weak. And since your population is small, that would be serious damage.

[RogueIce]

So to make sure everyone knows what's going on:

We asked the UAR to not accept Adrianopolis as a member, and instead to declare them a rogue state for kidnapping our personnel, who were engaged in tsunami relief operations.

We have asked the UAR for their help in securing the release of our hostages. Though not through bombers, nukes, etc. Rescue first.

We're redeploying CJTF-4. While they can still respond in the off chance Saddamistan attacks Terra Libertia, their new focus is now Adrianopolis. This is hoped to be a signal of our willingness to de-escalate with the UAR.

We've asked the Canissian navy to cease hostile action against Adrianopolis. We will try negotiation first to secure the release of our hostages. But if that fails, we'll be ready to take action.

Elsewhere, further harrasement of the UAR by the MESS has been ordered to cease. We're trying to de-escalate now. Wilkens is attending the conference himself, and I'm sending representitives.

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

The Emperor of the Eastern Roman Empire will be there as well to meet the King of Wilkonia to discuss much then.

[Adrian Laguna]

You whore!

That's "war whore", thank you.

Well, Adrianpolis is being stupid.

Admiteddly yes, but I wanted to use my military toys, and am really really hoping for global nuclear war. The ingame justification is that the UAR so scared the shit out of the upper echelons of my nation (except the poor Interior Minister) that they are willing to go to any lengths to make sure they don't get on their bad side.

Given that he just tried to take a bunch of people there for relief efforts hostage.

I should have clarified, I'm only attacking military ships, because these ships are expected to be switching from disaster relief to attacking the UAR. Also, I wanted a carrier. The hospital ship won't even be looked at crossly.

But I think this now means he's lost any and all aid that was being given to him. Have fun in your tsunami-ravaged wastehole, all alone.

If the tsunami originated from where I calculated it did, most of the wave simply washed over tiny unpopulated islands only few academic types will cry about. The worst hit people are little fishermen who don't even pay taxes. Pretty much the only populated area that got screwed over was Palwan.



Seems everyone is de-escalating. And here I finally managed to work-up enough interest in the game to actually put some effort into writing something. Even statayed-up until 5 am. Damn you guys! *shakes fist*

Oh, as an aside, I should have added that Adrianpolis transmitted any and all inteligence available on the MESS to the UAR to help them in the coming war. However, it no longer matters since everyone decided to be sane and boring.

[Shroom Man 777]

Damn! Those Goddamn Adrianopolites did put a beating on the Canissian fleet!

[Coyote]

Read the story, Adrian!

I've kept it fairly even, for now. But there are MESS reinforcements in the area...

[RogueIce]

*snip*

So you're either acting really stupidly...or trolling. Gee, that's nice.

And I somehow doubt Beowulf was so careless with his carrier that you'll just get to take it. And even if you somehow pulled that off...it won't last long. Since the UAR is more-or-less disavowing you, there's really nothing to stop us using our massive conventional superiority to make sure that carrier never sees the month of February if you don't hand it over.

For that matter, it's questionable whether your military in general will make it through the end of the month if you don't turn our people and equipment over to us, and soon.

[Shinn Langley Soryu]

Okay, I think it's safe to say that I'm very confused now. I get up and find a letter from Stas about the Shep issue. Then, I check out the in-game thread to find Adrianpolis attacking the MESS and some sort of conference being called. I'm really out of it right now, so I'd really appreciate a point-by-point debriefing of everything that's gone down since last night.

[RogueIce]

Read the story, Adrian!

I've kept it fairly even, for now. But there are MESS reinforcements in the area...

Where are you, exactly? Because the two Wilkonian CVBGs could "withdraw" right to you, at least long enough for my ships to get there.

[RogueIce]

Okay, I think it's safe to say that I'm very confused now. I get up and find a letter from Stas about the Shep issue. Then, I check out the in-game thread to find Adrianpolis attacking the MESS and some sort of conference being called. I'm really out of it right now, so I'd really appreciate a point-by-point debriefing of everything that's gone down since last night.

Well Adrian decided he wanted to try and push us to global thermonuclear war for some reason (the equivalent of trolling in internation politics? You decide!) and not only left the MESS, but tried to join the UAR and seize MESS military personnel and equipment, who were there largely for humanitarian relief.

The UAR has wisely decided to reject their membership. Their rhetoric to the contrary, I would think their leaders realized that aligning behind Adrianopolis would effectively push them into war with the MESS, just as the MESS is starting to de-escalate. Thus (hopefully) showing the world that they can, indeed, be reasonable.

A naval conflict broke out between Adrian and Canissia, but it won't last long...the MESS has carriers on the way to put an end to it.

So basically Adrian screwed himself. We're not going to outright attack; we'll give him a chance to give us our people and equipment back and then he can have fun being an international pariah. Or if he doesn't, the world gets to see first-hand what the "overwhelming MESS conventional superiority" can really do. *shrug*

[Coyote]

Read the story, Adrian!

I've kept it fairly even, for now. But there are MESS reinforcements in the area...

Where are you, exactly? Because the two Wilkonian CVBGs could "withdraw" right to you, at least long enough for my ships to get there.

I was thinking in the vicinity off of northern Adrianopolis, in international waters, and sort of north-east of there... most of the Southern Seas Fleet stays oriented in the region closer to Gottland/St. George; the subs ambushed the freighter that was making way to Adrianopolis, and the 102nd HYFOIL had returned from St. George after seeing TF23 safely away.

[phongn]

Adrian is pretty much screwed - without the UAR backing him up and without nuclear weapons to even things up, well, we're about to see what the MESS can do.

* Ponders arriving on one of the YF-111J prototypes to Atlantis *

[RogueIce]

On the Terra Libertia issue, "arm or don't arm" will probably never be resolved. And if it hinges on that, we'll probably always fail.

So I propose an alternative: we all agree to not engage in any proxy wars against any faction you don't like. And we make it clear that none of the factions can launch war against another on their own, either.

And we stick to it.

If we do agree to and actually (and most importantly) abide by this agreement, it doesn't matter who harms who and with how much; if they want to drive their own economy to the ground, so be it. They'll never be able to attack their neighbors though, because the rest of us won't allow it.

But that means no stationing your own troops there, or sending in "advisors" to secretly carry out your personal policy regarding whether or not you want another faction to exist. We have to be open and honest about everything, or it'll just fall apart.

That may be asking a lot out of some of you, but it's the only way we'll ever accomplish anything other than "Major International Crisis Every Other Week".

I'll dress it up for a game post later, but that's my proposal.

[Crossroads Inc.]

For the Leader Name sheet.

you can put me down as "Lord High CEO of Crossroadia"

[Raj Ahten]

It should be said that Alexander certainly does not want to be used to fight proxy wars, and he has attempted to walk a diplomatic tightrope in the past to not be seen as any factions lackey. As far as the IRT and ProTec go, those are pure bussiness transactions as far as Alexander is concerned.

Edit: Also, just when would be arming the Libertopians be deemd acceptable by people? Alexandria at least is working hard to become a real nation. He has a currency, central bank, and a mostly professional army now. Soon, he wil have a justice system and a national police force, if everything goes acording to plan. ( which it might not.....) So when would some of the doubters consider Alexandria a nation?

[CmdrWilkens]

It should be said that Alexander certainly does not want to be used to fight proxy wars, and he has attempted to walk a diplomatic tightrope in the past to not be seen as any factions lackey. As far as the IRT and ProTec go, those are pure bussiness transactions as far as Alexander is concerned.

Edit: Also, just when would be arming the Libertopians be deemd acceptable by people? Alexandria at least is working hard to become a real nation. He has a currency, central bank, and a mostly professional army now. Soon, he wil have a justice system and a national police force, if everything goes acording to plan. ( which it might not.....) So when would some of the doubters consider Alexandria a nation?

Alexandria and he Dioscese are both considered nations by most. The sticking point has always been the Sultanate. Beyond that the point has been we in the MESS don't want others to be fighting proxy wars in TL by arming the three groups against each other.

[Shroom Man 777]

NOTHING TO SEE HERE, MOVE ALONG

- Director John Baylor
[SOFIA] Shroomanian Office, Fungal Intelligence Agency