SD.net's World OOC/Discussion thread MK IV

[Sea Skimmer]

Yeah, so to be super clear, the disposition of President Sheppard invalidated the UAR treaty… andthat which just placed every Nukistani personal and weapon in Saddamistan (remember Shep dispersed his nuclear bombers partly to Saddamistan some time back)in violation of Saddamistani law (they’ve got no visas and the weapons are just plain illegal personal) so all those bombers, nuclear weapons and personal just got seized.

Well, if Skimmer is going to destroy those satellites, he might as well do so. Everyone is going to silently cheer while the world is rid of the tyranny of UKB.

Your not thinking like a nuclear warfighter if you think I’d stop at frying everything in orbit.

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

Well, if Skimmer is going to destroy those satellites, he might as well do so. Everyone is going to silently cheer while the world is rid of the tyranny of UKB.

Your not thinking like a nuclear warfighter if you think I’d stop at frying everything in orbit.

You are going to fry everyone then? *groan*

[K. A. Pital]

After ridiculous treachery and threats like that?

What treachery? I thought Shep agreed to his demise.

Not to mention, what’s with the lack of world outrage over Blackadder dangling weapons of mass destruction over everyone’s head?

There's no space weapons ban. This system was devised, and implemented, under OMSK to serve as a means of deterrent against the MESS.

You all went nuts over a single mostly unsubstantiated report of Saddamistani bioweapons, but you just ignore all this and go on as usual?

There is no space weapons ban. This system was an OMSK system and the UKB operated it. It inherited the arms since the OMSK dissolution.

What is wrong about that?

Let me be blunt: biological weapons represent a threat for a territory less than Africa.

Bean's entier system CANNOT holocaust the population. It's not nuclear, it's power is comparable to some low-yield nukes, but minus the radiation. It's not contaminating.

And it can't destroy the world by accident, even by mistake.

Suffice to say, that it's total yield, which I will not disclose, by a factor of several thousand less than the UAR's nuclear arsenal, and as such, CANNOT threaten the world with extinction; it's also hideously expensive.

By contrast, your nuclear arsenal can totally ravage the world. And bioweapons... don't even get this shit started.

[K. A. Pital]

WHAT TYRANNY OF UKB?! You are going to attack the UKB over this system, which is hardly something unusual compared to biological weapons and insane amounts of nuclear weapons, measuring in Gigatns?



God.

The Red Technocracy's new official course is ISOLATIONISM. Duh.

Oh, and Skimmer? You're seizing Shepnukistan's assets after Shep's death? That nation still exists despite him leaving the game, and I doubt it's new government would interpret your actions as ANYTHING but an act of war.

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

WHAT TYRANNY OF UKB?! You are going to attack the UKB over this system, which is hardly something unusual compared to biological weapons and insane amounts of nuclear weapons, measuring in Gigatns?



God.

The Red Technocracy's new official course is ISOLATIONISM. Duh.

This game should be renamed sense and senility at this rate. *sighs*

Maybe I should just self-destruct my country with all the nuclear reactors going boom.

[K. A. Pital]

The total yield of Bean's system does not exceed a few megatons. It can't engulf the world in nuclear holocaust.

It's just a deterrent system, and it was devised under the OMSK for EXACTLY the reason of containing trigger-happy nuclear maniacs.

[PeZook]

The total yield of Bean's system does not exceed a few megatons. It can't engulf the world in nuclear holocaust.

It's just a deterrent system, and it was devised under the OMSK for EXACTLY the reason of containing trigger-happy nuclear maniacs.

I actually don't think it's worse than stockpiles of nuclear and biological weapons, I just think the UKB used it in a bit ham-fisted way, diplomatically speaking.

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

I don't know about you, but I'm getting tired of this. Maybe we should have a moratorium on no super weapons at all, and then no stupidity, rampant nonsense....

[Sea Skimmer]

The total yield of Bean's system does not exceed a few megatons. It can't engulf the world in nuclear holocaust.

It's just a deterrent system, and it was devised under the OMSK for EXACTLY the reason of containing trigger-happy nuclear maniacs.

I seem to recall him claiming single projectiles as being 20 megaton weapons, suggesting a total arsenal that’s rather larger then just a few megatons.. But if he only has a few of those, well then don’t need to worry much at all, none of them will land anything like intact or on target after being hit by a string of nuclear warhead ABM missiles. Good thing I just acquired a bunch of extra nuclear material.

I don't know about you, but I'm getting tired of this. Maybe we should have a moratorium on no super weapons at all, and then no stupidity, rampant nonsense....

At that point you can expect a number of us to drop out, and the game will probably just die. Seriously, what else is going to keep people interested? I for one know I have no interest in just making a string of posts about how I just saved some gas by introduced hybrid-electric trams in Eastern Asscrackistan, and actually fighting wars is seriously hampered by a lack of moderation. Conventional wars would all be stalemates anyway; no one has the strength to invade anyone else.

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

At that point you can expect a number of us to drop out, and the game will probably just die. Seriously, what else is going to keep people interested? I for one know I have no interest in just making a string of posts about how I just saved some gas by introduced hybrid-electric trams in Eastern Asscrackistan, and actually fighting wars is seriously hampered by a lack of moderation. Conventional wars would all be stalemates anyway; no one has the strength to invade anyone else.

I think a number of us are sorely tempted to do so. The death of Shep is just ... one of many numbing incidents.

[K. A. Pital]

I seem to recall him claiming single projectiles as being 20 megaton weapons

That's insane. Moreover, as I have the specifications from OMSK, I can assure you this is not the case - that number is technically in the ballpark of the total arsenal; can't say much more than what I already did, the specifications remain OMSK-classified.

But if he only has a few of those, well then don’t need to worry much at all, none of them will land anything like intact or on target after being hit by a string of nuclear warhead ABM missiles.

What ABM missiles? One of the key points of kinetic bombardment is to overcome ABM defenses. And he has hundreds of KVs really.

The weapon inflicts damage because it moves at orbital velocities, at least 9 kilometers per second. ... The weapon would be very hard to defend against. It has a very high closing velocity and a small radar cross-section. Launch is difficult to detect. Any infra-red launch signature occurs in orbit, at no fixed position. The infra-red launch signature also has a small magnitude compared to a ballistic missile launch.

How are you going to hit a 9 km/s incoming brick? With what? I doubt there are reliable intercept systems against this. It's velocity is between 4 km/s and 15 km/s, well outside the abilities of ANY existing, or projected, intercept system.

Yes, it's not too precisely guided, but we are talking about hitting objects that are not moving (bunkers, airfiles, cities), or are moving rather slowly.

Conventional wars would all be stalemates anyway; no one has the strength to invade anyone else.

I'm sure any of the bigger nations could invade a Duchy or Principality easily, and even try to do it with an equal-sized state, if turning to war mobilization.

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

I think if we are going to play the game properly, we have got to stop dwelling on the superweapons and play the game with some reasonable good faith.

Otherwise, constantly seeking to destroy each other in defence is simply an untenable situation and makes the game a very tiring affair.

[K. A. Pital]

Also, the idea that you could "fry everything in orbit" before your military receives a pounding is pathetic.

The vehicles have 15-20 minutes to Earth time. It takes ~15 minutes (a little more or less) for a launched rocket to rise to 100-200km altitude and place warheads or whatnot (the satellites are at high LEO/MEO orbits).

They would still fire their KVs away even if you shoot up nukes to kill their targeting modules. In 20 minutes, you will destroy much of the electonic eqipment of the world, but the KVs will still fall on your military targets.

I think if we are going to play the game properly, we have got to stop dwelling on the superweapons

This is not a superweapon. It is just a weapon. A handy deterrent, and it's possible to cripple an airforce and ruin some military bases (they are pretty much useless against other targets however). If you want to combat it: develop armed, ever present space stations at 200-300-400 km orbits with guns and space-to-space missiles. And moor space fighters onto them.

Which is what I do.

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

Bah. Let's get down to other game business.

Stas, do you operate any communication satellites? Any chance I could launch a few and lease bandwidth from others?

[K. A. Pital]

Stas, do you operate any communication satellites?

Yep, I think I do operate a few (they are also used for RED ONE and RED STAR TV channel transfer) though I mostly rely on UKB (we were good friends on the space program, see no reason to, even if OMSK is no more). The Ans are still for sale obviously.

I'm also curious if you want to partner on the Tu-2000 super-scramjet After all, I didn't start the project to be the sole person to have it

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

It is is not a superweapon. It is just a weapon. A handy deterrent, and it's possible to cripple an airforce and ruin some military bases (they are pretty much useless against other targets however). If you want to combat it: develop armed, ever present space stations at 200-300-400 km orbits with guns and space-to-space missiles. And moor space fighters onto them.

Which is what I do.

Well, it's not something I can afford to build on my own or even buy one.

[K. A. Pital]

Well, it's not something I can afford to build on my own or even buy one.

Actually, you can afford to buy the space fighter from me (I'd sell it once I produce some more bodies). The key problem is boosters to lift tem - the "Soyuz" can lift one fighter, but for heavy stuff like permanent ORB stations... too weak.

But I hope Bean can sell us Proton and Energia boosters to shoot up our stuff.

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

Stas, do you operate any communication satellites?

Yep, I think I do operate a few (they are also used for RED ONE and RED STAR TV channel transfer) though I mostly rely on UKB (we were good friends on the space program, see no reason to, even if OMSK is no more). The Ans are still for sale obviously.

I'm also curious if you want to partner on the Tu-2000 super-scramjet After all, I didn't start the project to be the sole person to have it

I thought I said yes to that. But yeah, I'm interested.

As for the Ans, I'm still thinking about my military requirements. Also, what are the prerequisite length of the airfields can these airplanes handle and can they handle rough airfields?

I was thinking of operating 3 communications satellites, of which one is exclusively for military use. I'll set up my own ground stations to manage them.

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

Well, it's not something I can afford to build on my own or even buy one.

Actually, you can afford to buy the space fighter from me (I'd sell it once I produce some more bodies). The key problem is boosters to lift tem - the "Soyuz" can lift one fighter, but for heavy stuff like permanent ORB stations... too weak.

But I hope Bean can sell us Proton and Energia boosters to shoot up our stuff.

Well, true, but I have no rocket pad to operate them.

[K. A. Pital]

Also, what are the prerequisite length of the airfields can these airplanes handle and can they handle rough airfields?

The An-72 can (specifically devised to be able to take off even from snowy, mired stripes), and the An-12 is old enough, for rough airfield landing/takeoff. Newer planes are more demanding. I don't know specific lengths, but all of them can land at hardened military airstripes.

Nice to see us back to business

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

Also, what are the prerequisite length of the airfields can these airplanes handle and can they handle rough airfields?

The An-72 can (specifically devised to be able to take off even from snowy, mired stripes), and the An-12 is old enough, for rough airfield landing/takeoff. Newer planes are more demanding. I don't know specific lengths, but all of them can land at hardened military airstripes.

Nice to see us back to business

Hah. Of course. A week of this hair splitting nonsense was getting me irritated.

Ok, then I'm looking at 12 An-72s, 6 An-22P, 6 An-22A, 6 An-225.

I'm also thinking of another 10 Tu-160 but I'm still thinking about it.

[MKSheppard]

Shep, you're seriously going overboard. What kind of boosters do you even HAVE to lift 20-30 tons to orbit, praytell?

Okay guys, I'm back; I slept only like 3-4 hours here lol. May go back to bed after I bang out some more work on this Souma S-35 model for Panzer Command.

To answer your questions:

1.) Comrade Bean is RPing President Garner. Garner is a traitorious backstabbing snake who was easily bought off by the UKB's offer of money....and power.

2.) The super ASAT system is based at the Silver Spring Launch Complex; which I've mentioned a few times before in game; it's basically based off of the Solid Rocket Booster system which was under development for the RB-72/MiG-105 back in the SPIRAL program. I assumed that each OMSK pact member got at least one smallish launch complex as part of the huge huge outlay in the SPIRAL program.

Basically, the SRB is there to make launching a SPIRAL much more reliable and regularly than a chemically fuelled rocket - e.g. you can keep it at readiness for weeks on end; and tank the liquid oxygen, etc into the SPIRAL only minutes before launch.

So what I did was I clustered about two pairs or so of the boosters together around a central "kick" solid fuelled stage. It's crude; and there isn't even any release mechanism for the bomb. It doesn't even have to achieve mid-high earth orbit. A decaying orbit, which ends up with it flaming into the ocean in a day or two is sufficient, because it's not going to be in orbit that long....only long enough to initate.

Yes, I know it's an incredibly crude lash up; but you can see to it's "demilitarization" with Red Technocracy officers destroying the Silver Spring Complex via explosives.

EDIT: Ooh, good point stas, on how long it would take for the missiles to reach a high enough altitude....chalk that one up to hyperbole by POTUS Shep.

The basical plan was not to use kill vehicles, but to use the incredibly absurdly large 100 megaton warhead with "enhanced effects" modifications to generate enough hard radiation and other goodies to fry UKB satellites in x distance from the initation.

PPS - everyone, eat the donuts mang!

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

Wait, what is SPIRAL? I was never told, even while in OMSK.

[MKSheppard]

It was the MiG-105 spaceplane system that was developed.

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

It was the MiG-105 spaceplane system that was developed.

Oh that.