Latest Reincarnation of Creationist attack on Evolution

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Latest Reincarnation of Creationist attack on Evolution

Post by Guardsman Bass »

Obviously none of these arguments are even vaguely new, but I thought it was interesting that this might be the next wave of attacks by creationist groups, after Creation Science was pounded in the 1980s in the courtroom, and Intelligent Design mutilated in the courts in 2005.
New York Times wrote: DALLAS — Opponents of teaching evolution, in a natural selection of sorts, have gradually shed those strategies that have not survived the courts. Over the last decade, creationism has given rise to “creation science,” which became “intelligent design,” which in 2005 was banned from the public school curriculum in Pennsylvania by a federal judge.

Now a battle looms in Texas over science textbooks that teach evolution, and the wrestle for control seizes on three words. None of them are “creationism” or “intelligent design” or even “creator.”

The words are “strengths and weaknesses.”

Starting this summer, the state education board will determine the curriculum for the next decade and decide whether the “strengths and weaknesses” of evolution should be taught. The benign-sounding phrase, some argue, is a reasonable effort at balance. But critics say it is a new strategy taking shape across the nation to undermine the teaching of evolution, a way for students to hear religious objections under the heading of scientific discourse.

Already, legislators in a half-dozen states — Alabama, Florida, Louisiana, Michigan, Missouri and South Carolina — have tried to require that classrooms be open to “views about the scientific strengths and weaknesses of Darwinian theory,” according to a petition from the Discovery Institute, the Seattle-based strategic center of the intelligent design movement.

“Very often over the last 10 years, we’ve seen antievolution policies in sheep’s clothing,” said Glenn Branch of the National Center for Science Education, a group based in Oakland, Calif., that is against teaching creationism.

The “strengths and weaknesses” language was slipped into the curriculum standards in Texas to appease creationists when the State Board of Education first mandated the teaching of evolution in the late 1980s. It has had little effect because evolution skeptics have not had enough power on the education board to win the argument that textbooks do not adequately cover the weaknesses of evolution.

Yet even as courts steadily prohibited the outright teaching of creationism and intelligent design, creationists on the Texas board grew to a near majority. Seven of 15 members subscribe to the notion of intelligent design, and they have the blessings of Gov. Rick Perry, a Republican.

What happens in Texas does not stay in Texas: the state is one of the country’s biggest buyers of textbooks, and publishers are loath to produce different versions of the same material. The ideas that work their way into education here will surface in classrooms throughout the country.

“ ‘Strengths and weaknesses’ are regular words that have now been drafted into the rhetorical arsenal of creationists,” said Kathy Miller, director of the Texas Freedom Network, a group that promotes religious freedom.

The chairman of the state education board, Dr. Don McLeroy, a dentist in Central Texas, denies that the phrase “is subterfuge for bringing in creationism.”

“Why in the world would anybody not want to include weaknesses?” Dr. McLeroy said.

The word itself is open to broad interpretation. If the teaching of weaknesses is mandated, a textbook might be forced to say that evolution has an “inability to explain the Cambrian Explosion,” according to the group Texans for Better Science Education, which questions evolution.

The Cambrian Explosion was a period of rapid diversification that evidence suggests began around 550 million years ago and gave rise to most groups of complex organisms and animal forms. Scientists are studying how it unfolded.

Evolution as a principle is not disputed in the scientific mainstream, where the term “theory” does not mean a hunch, but an explanation backed by abundant observation, and where gaps in knowledge are not seen as grounds for doubt but points for future understanding. Over time, research has strengthened the basic tenets of evolution, especially as advances in molecular genetics have allowed biologists to read the history recorded in the DNA of animals and plants.

Yet playing to the American sense of fairness, lawmakers across the country have tried to require that classrooms be open to all views. The Discovery Institute has provided a template for legislators to file “academic freedom” bills, and they have been popping up with increasing frequency in statehouses across the country. In Florida, the session ended last month before legislators could take action, while in Louisiana, an academic-freedom bill was sent to the House of Representatives after passing the House education committee and the State Senate.

In Texas, evolution foes do not have to win over the entire Legislature, only a majority of the education board; they are one vote away.

Dr. McLeroy, the board chairman, sees the debate as being between “two systems of science.”

“You’ve got a creationist system and a naturalist system,” he said.

Dr. McLeroy believes that Earth’s appearance is a recent geologic event — thousands of years old, not 4.5 billion. “I believe a lot of incredible things,” he said, “The most incredible thing I believe is the Christmas story. That little baby born in the manger was the god that created the universe.”

But Dr. McLeroy says his rejection of evolution — “I just don’t think it’s true or it’s ever happened” — is not based on religious grounds.
Courts have clearly ruled that teachings of faith are not allowed in a science classroom, but when he considers the case for evolution, Dr. McLeroy said, “it’s just not there.”

“My personal religious beliefs are going to make no difference in how well our students are going to learn science,” he said.

Views like these not only make biology teachers nervous, they also alarm those who have a stake in the state’s reputation for scientific exploration. “Serious students will not come to study in our universities if Texas is labeled scientifically backward,” said Dr. Dan Foster, former chairman of the department of medicine at the University of Texas Southwestern Medical Center at Dallas.

“I’m an orthodox Christian,” Dr. Foster said, “and I don’t want to say that Christianity is crazy.” But science, not scripture, belongs in a classroom, he said. To allow views that undermine evolution, he said, “puts belief on the same level as scientific evidence.”

Dr. Foster is a veteran of the evolution wars. He met with Mr. Perry in 2003 when the “strengths and weaknesses” argument last appeared, and more recently he worked to oppose an application by the Institute for Creation Research, which supports the teaching of creationism, to award graduate degrees in the state. (It was rejected on April 23, but the institute has said it will appeal.)

This time around, however, scientists like Dr. Foster see more reason for worry. Although the process might drag on till next spring, a state-appointed committee of science educators has already begun to review the curriculum requirements. Although the state education board is free to set aside or modify their proposals, committee members will recommend that the “strengths and weaknesses” phrase be removed, said Kevin Fisher, a committee member who is against the teaching of creationism.

“When you consider evolution, there are certainly questions that have yet to be answered,” said Mr. Fisher, science coordinator for the Lewisville Independent School District in North Texas.

But, he added, “a question that has yet to be answered is certainly different from an alleged weakness.”

Mr. Fisher points to the flaws in Darwinian theory that are listed on an anti-evolution Web site, strengthsandweaknesses.org, which is run by Texans for Better Science Education.

“Many of them are decades old,” Mr. Fisher said of the flaws listed. “They’ve all been thoroughly refuted.”
It's absolutely hilarious how these people seem to have no sense of irony whatsoever. Just look at the bolded part; I love how the quoted board member says that he believes in a "lot of incredible things", including Young Earth Creationism (although he doesn't say that), then goes on to say that his disbelief in evolution (which amounts to "I just don't think it's true") is totally not based on religion. Yeah, I believe you, Chairman. :roll:
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Post by Guardsman Bass »

One addendum - I think it's hilarious how the writer also points out, at the beginning, the slightly ironic fact that these creationist groups are developing new strategies in an almost evolutionary way in response to deadends.
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Post by wautd »

Religious fundamentalists truly are the scum of the earth. I wouldn't be suprised if we'll see the Dover trial all over again soon
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Post by Guardsman Bass »

wautd wrote:Religious fundamentalists truly are the scum of the earth. I wouldn't be suprised if we'll see the Dover trial all over again soon
The trick to crushing this latest weed would be to find solid proof, akin to the "wedge" strategy document used in the Dover trial to prove that the Intelligent Design promoters were actually seeking to promote religion in the classroom, that "strengths and weaknesses" is part of a deliberate effort to promote religion in the classroom. While it is bloody obvious that it is, that might be more difficult in court, particularly if the creationists play semantics games.
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Post by wautd »

Guardsman Bass wrote:
wautd wrote:Religious fundamentalists truly are the scum of the earth. I wouldn't be suprised if we'll see the Dover trial all over again soon
The trick to crushing this latest weed would be to find solid proof, akin to the "wedge" strategy document used in the Dover trial to prove that the Intelligent Design promoters were actually seeking to promote religion in the classroom, that "strengths and weaknesses" is part of a deliberate effort to promote religion in the classroom. While it is bloody obvious that it is, that might be more difficult in court, particularly if the creationists play semantics games.
Maybe they'll use the same textbook. Again.
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Post by wautd »

just checked strengthsandweaknesses.org

They're not even trying to hide their intentions anymore :lol:
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Post by Dooey Jo »

Seems like half of the links on that site are broken. Oh well, it's not like it's hard to figure what the supposed "weaknesses" are. Second law of thermodynamics, Hitler, needs huge outside power source, the usual. There will of course be no mentions of actual weaknesses with current approaches to evolution, because they don't give any indications that the whole field is in error, and that God actually created everything and that Jesus rose from his grave to be our best pal and that the end is near so consume that oil in mass quantities like a good American.

Then again, that sort of discussion is probably for a university level education, not high school or wherever they're trying to push this. The only theory I remember discussing in that level was the traditional wave theory of light, and that was only to show that it can't explain certain things, as an introduction to quantum mechanics (but we have a different system of education here, and most people wouldn't even study that stuff).

But hey, maybe they can go into "strengths and weaknesses" with the standard model of particle physics, too. After all, they learn about protons and neutrons, don't they? That means they're more than qualified to understand the prediction of W and Z bosons, and why gravity is problematic. Oh right, the Bible doesn't say anything about that stuff, so it doesn't really matter. Would be funny if it did though, and claimed that mass comes from God. Then they'd say things like "Did you know that the Standard Model can't explain mass, and that the supposed Higgs boson has never been found???"
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Post by Ward »

The word itself is open to broad interpretation. If the teaching of weaknesses is mandated, a textbook might be forced to say that evolution has an “inability to explain the Cambrian Explosion,” according to the group Texans for Better Science Education, which questions evolution.
What?

The Cambrian Explosion is so named because pretty much all our fossil discoveries are dated afterwards. The Cambrian explosion marks a point when hard-bodied organisms came into their own - fossils or other remnants of soft-bodied organisms are extremely rare.

So AFAIK, the Cambrian Explosion is somewhat of a proving ground for evolution. It's really not something Creationists want to bring up.
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Post by Dooey Jo »

Ward wrote:So AFAIK, the Cambrian Explosion is somewhat of a proving ground for evolution. It's really not something Creationists want to bring up.
The Cambrian explosion is explained by God being hung over from an office party. He would later get back at Ra and the other gods for spiking his drinks, by covering his eyes and shouting "la la la you don't exist", just like the Bible says.
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Post by CaptainZoidberg »

[img]http://www.strengthsandweaknesses.org/_ ... nktous.gif

What on Earth is that thing on the left side of the picture? Is that supposed to be a frog of creationism or something? [/img]
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Post by Johonebesus »

CaptainZoidberg wrote:[img]http://www.strengthsandweaknesses.org/_ ... nktous.gif

What on Earth is that thing on the left side of the picture? Is that supposed to be a frog of creationism or something? [/img]
It's a person holding aloft a banner marked with a "V", presumably for "vote." My eyes are horrible, and I had no trouble seeing that.
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Post by Wyrm »

The Cambrian explosion was only short on the geological scale. It still took millions and millions of years for all these forms to evolve. It was not nothing, and then POOF! they're there. It wasn't even as big as previously thought.
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Post by Darth Wong »

The problem is that these people define a "weakness" as any phenomenon in nature which is not entirely understood: that casts a pretty wide net. People who have no grasp whatsoever of the scientific method (ie- probably a majority, especially in the US) may actually find this a pretty convincing argument. In their view, scientists are trying to "conceal" the weaknesses of science from kids who are learning it, so in their twisted worldview, this is a scientific censorship issue.

But it's a lot like saying that every single thing you say in History class should be prefaced by a long discussion on the weaknesses of trying to determine anything about the past. It doesn't help education; it only weakens it and wastes time, by taking kids who are at a rote learning stage and trying to treat them like doctorate students.
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Post by CaptainZoidberg »

I think that "Strengths and Weaknesses" is a strong angle for the Creationist movement. Firstly it appeals to the natural human desire to make compromises, let everyone be happy, and point out the positives in both sides.

Secondly, the approach has the benefit of being vague. What's to stop an ultra-conservative school teacher from ranting about how evolution is wrong, and then just say that they were bringing up "cons"?
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Post by General Zod »

CaptainZoidberg wrote:I think that "Strengths and Weaknesses" is a strong angle for the Creationist movement. Firstly it appeals to the natural human desire to make compromises, let everyone be happy, and point out the positives in both sides.
They've been trying to make compromises for decades, also known as the "mindless middle" mindset. This is nothing new.
Secondly, the approach has the benefit of being vague. What's to stop an ultra-conservative school teacher from ranting about how evolution is wrong, and then just say that they were bringing up "cons"?
Again, this is nothing new. They've tried repeated approaches for being vague. Since any legitimate scientific theory includes ways of how it can be falsified, anyone trying to claim people are hiding its weaknesses is being incredibly dishonest.
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Post by Alyrium Denryle »

This is the same "Teach the Controversy" bullshit that the Discovery Institute started peddling the second they started getting their asses kicked in Dover. It is so fucking transparent that a trained Rhesus Monkey that holds an honorary JD from Monkey State Law School can see through the ruse to its unconstitutionality.
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Post by Zixinus »

I said it before and I most likely will say it again: here we go again.

They don't dare to study the material, because most of their arguments rely on misinformation and ignorance. They can't stand up in proper debates and academia, because they are re-enforcing the very rejection they claim to be fighting. They can't do research because they don't have any topic, no working theory to prove or disprove. The only thing they can do is use underhanded tactics in the political stadium and in the media, and that is what they will keep doing until the cows come home.
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Post by Patrick Degan »

Darth Wong wrote:It doesn't help education; it only weakens it and wastes time, by taking kids who are at a rote learning stage and trying to treat them like doctorate students.
Well, given that CONservatives actually want schools which produce generations of mindlessly pliant, credulous Republikan-voting worker drones, undermining education actually suits the purpose of the exercise.
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Post by SpacedTeddyBear »

I'm sure if you try to apply this same "strength and weakness" bullshit to their bible, they'd cry religious discrimination. Or they'd fall back to God transcends all logic and therefore "evolutionists" procedure of the scientific method does not apply.
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Post by Darth Ruinus »

SpacedTeddyBear wrote:Or they'd fall back to God transcends all logic and therefore "evolutionists" procedure of the scientific method does not apply.
I would respond with "If he transcends all logic then why bother learning about him? Whats true today wouldnt be true tomorrow would it?" Also, isnt one of the purposes of school to teach you things that are true, not about the illogical sky tyrant of doom.
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Post by Themightytom »

Darth Ruinus wrote:
SpacedTeddyBear wrote:Or they'd fall back to God transcends all logic and therefore "evolutionists" procedure of the scientific method does not apply.
I would respond with "If he transcends all logic then why bother learning about him? Whats true today wouldnt be true tomorrow would it?" Also, isnt one of the purposes of school to teach you things that are true, not about the illogical sky tyrant of doom.
1.If what were true today weren't true tomorrow that would follow a logical progression, because it would be a reliable inference from your statement that nothing that is true today will be true tomorrow.

2. You shouldn't learn about what is untrue. you should only learn what is true.

3. You should learn about what is true today because it will indicate you what is false tomorrow.

And if that argument sounds absurd thats because it is based on an absurd premise, namely that you can use logic to anticipate illogic.

The sky tyrant of doom thinks you are illogical.

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Post by Darth Servo »

Ward wrote:So AFAIK, the Cambrian Explosion is somewhat of a proving ground for evolution. It's really not something Creationists want to bring up.
The last creationist morons I debated loved the Cambrian Explosion. Though it was proof of God in action, of all these different organisms suddenly appearing from no where. Even tried to redraw the evolutionary family tree as a horizontal line with many different "kinds" sprouting up from it as such:

|__|_|_|____|__|___|__|____|__|_|__|

Wouldn't accept the fact that said "horizontal line" constituted millions of years and that the "kinds" in the Cambrian era were very different from modern organisms.
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Post by The Big I »

The last creationist morons I debated loved the Cambrian Explosion. Though it was proof of God in action, of all these different organisms suddenly appearing from no where. Even tried to redraw the evolutionary family tree as a horizontal line with many different "kinds" sprouting up from it as such:

|__|_|_|____|__|___|__|____|__|_|__|

Wouldn't accept the fact that said "horizontal line" constituted millions of years and that the "kinds" in the Cambrian era were very different from modern organisms.
What you mean the horizonal line family tree isn't true :shock: :?


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Post by Themightytom »

Darth Servo wrote:
Ward wrote:So AFAIK, the Cambrian Explosion is somewhat of a proving ground for evolution. It's really not something Creationists want to bring up.
The last creationist morons I debated loved the Cambrian Explosion. Though it was proof of God in action, of all these different organisms suddenly appearing from no where. Even tried to redraw the evolutionary family tree as a horizontal line with many different "kinds" sprouting up from it as such:

|__|_|_|____|__|___|__|____|__|_|__|

Wouldn't accept the fact that said "horizontal line" constituted millions of years and that the "kinds" in the Cambrian era were very different from modern organisms.
It really doesn't make sense to try to prove God. If anyone DID prove God, i would ahve a major crisis of faith i think, because if we were able to acurately determine what God was that would imply there is a finite nature to His existence and that would disprove his status as supreme being/sky tyrant of doom.

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Post by Patrick Degan »

Themightytom wrote:It really doesn't make sense to try to prove God. If anyone DID prove God, i would ahve a major crisis of faith i think, because if we were able to acurately determine what God was that would imply there is a finite nature to His existence and that would disprove his status as supreme being/sky tyrant of doom.
Precisely. We would then eventually be able to know exactly the extent of said being's powers, it's age, chart the clear waning of said being's influence in Earth history (based on declining energy levels, perhaps), and predict said being's eventual demise based on the aforementioned factors.
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